286 replies to this topic

[Dawnthieve]

Stone Profit, on 17 January 2013 - 09:23 AM, said:

If you can beat it with any weapons ingame, then its balanced.

OK. What about an exaggeration: I have a new 'Mech, with a weapon that instagibs you wherever you are if i ONCE get a lock on you. This lock say takes me 0.5s to acquire, usual ingame rules applied.
I say, this mechanic is not insurmountable. You just need to get behind me and oneshot me b4 I get to do that to you. Balanced?

Edited by Dawnthieve, 17 January 2013 - 11:29 AM.

[ICEFANG13]

Stone Profit, on 17 January 2013 - 11:24 AM, said:

I dont need a poll so because forums polls are inadequate to determine the feeling on ecm you want... another poll? Did you even read what I wrote? And as ive said before3 you and I dont determine "right". I said it was balanced not your subject view of right.

Then lets put 3rd person in, as the forums are inadequate to identify that its not wanted. I'm glad we are in agreement!

[Frostblade]

warp103, on 02 January 2013 - 01:58 PM, said:

this is pretty much saying his is a pew pew COD with mechs. Even in the face of nice and nasty ECM Q they careless about the ECM Q.
So to all that spend money DAMN you just got P I M P Slapped. The sad part I spent money for my son's Account. He starting to hate the game.{Feel his hero mech IIyn now sucks}. Now he only play with the ecm Atlas so he can a least get kills. As other have said it best to make new Items underpowered and ramp them up. Not to make op weapon and have the players beg for help. Then PGI wonders why the number of player are going down and noob play and leave. ECM Big issue ,no training for noobs another big issue.

I had the same bad experience, my 12 yr old son was excited as was I to play mwo and after a few weeks my son was asking for me to buy him the ecm atlas because he saw they were hard to kill and had ecm. I went ahead and plopped some money on his account. He played for another week until he told me he hated all the small mechs that had ecm and kept killing him. Now he doesn't play at all anymore.

[Stone Profit]

ICEFANG13, on 17 January 2013 - 11:35 AM, said:

Then lets put 3rd person in, as the forums are inadequate to identify that its not wanted. I'm glad we are in agreement!

I support third person if that is what the devs think the game needs, provided of course they stick to the guidelines they already set forth for that mechsnic. Nice troll post tho.

[ICEFANG13]

The guidelines that where set forth for it was that they would never do it. A majority on the forums opposed it in the forms, just as a majority oppose ECM as it is. You cannot say that ECM is balanced because the polls that are on the forums are a vocal minority, because that doesn't make any sense. Its like opposing the only data we have.

This polls says, 90% of people oppose 3rd person, and you would just let PGI add it because they are your lords and masters or something? Get real, this is a beta, we are beta testers, we are providing feedback. You seem to be a sheep, happy regardless of how the game is. Why are you even here then? Its not like a majority of forum posters are gonna start loving ECM for no reason.

In contrast, if there was a poll that said that all mechs should be limited to a XL100 engine, and a majority disagreed with it, you would be for it because the poll is wrong?

What if PGI said that? Will you support this? What if they said that all mechs can only carry one small laser, and only have a XL100, and max armor is 100? You will support this because they said to?

Don't you even start typing, "they would never say something that stupid", I agree, but to people who dislike ECM, its a lot like that.

PGI: We have released a new thing called reflective armor, it makes energy weapons not work unless you are in the range of 180-200, it also delays target info and makes your mini-map fuzz out when you are close to it. Its only effective counter is itself. It weighs 1.5 tons and takes up 2 slots. How do you honestly feel about that? Because ECM does not only more, but a lot more.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Frostblade, on 17 January 2013 - 11:39 AM, said:

I had the same bad experience, my 12 yr old son was excited as was I to play mwo and after a few weeks my son was asking for me to buy him the ecm atlas because he saw they were hard to kill and had ecm. I went ahead and plopped some money on his account. He played for another week until he told me he hated all the small mechs that had ecm and kept killing him. Now he doesn't play at all anymore.

Hate to say this but you and your kid both need a kick in the pants. This is a game, the point is to win. This is a PvP game, which means in order to win, you must defeat another human player, which means they must lose. Your son doesn't like the fact that he can't always win, and if he can't always win, the game isn't fair and he won't play any more. And you are condoning this? Seriously, you both need a kick in the pants. Let me guess, any sports he does, no team loses do they? Everyone gets a prize for just being there right? What happened to teaching your child that winning is what you want and if you can't do it, practice and try harder until you can win?

Good gods, can you imagine the NFL in 20 years? Cowboys and Broncos and Steelers and Dolphins and Ravens and every single team in the entire league WINS THE SUPERBOWL! AGAIN!!

[ICEFANG13]

How does one practice and try harder to win with ECM?

[Gremlich Johns]

Thontor, on 17 January 2013 - 05:30 AM, said:

If anything ECM made scouts more important, in order to find the enemy and keep track of their movements. Hiding your main force from enemy radar doesn't help much when you don't know where the enemy is.

I disagree, why have one small mech look for the enemy when you can just cloak and have everybody looking, especially on these rather small maps. If the maps were much larger, I could almost buy your argument. Your point is what the scout is SUPPOSED to do. Now, with the current ECM, why bother taking the chance of losing that scout.

[Frostblade]

Kristov Kerensky, on 17 January 2013 - 04:00 PM, said:

Hate to say this but you and your kid both need a kick in the pants. This is a game, the point is to win. This is a PvP game, which means in order to win, you must defeat another human player, which means they must lose. Your son doesn't like the fact that he can't always win, and if he can't always win, the game isn't fair and he won't play any more. And you are condoning this? Seriously, you both need a kick in the pants. Let me guess, any sports he does, no team loses do they? Everyone gets a prize for just being there right? What happened to teaching your child that winning is what you want and if you can't do it, practice and try harder until you can win?

Good gods, can you imagine the NFL in 20 years? Cowboys and Broncos and Steelers and Dolphins and Ravens and every single team in the entire league WINS THE SUPERBOWL! AGAIN!!

This game isn't "sports" and all I was relating was our experience with playing mwo. Please don't try to elaborate our experience with this game as us not trying enough to win. I'm simply stating after a certain time we didn't enjoy the game as much as we'd hope for due to obvious game imbalances. So yes we like mechwarrior & my son and I don't have defeatist attitudes.

[Homeless Bill]

Kristov Kerensky, on 17 January 2013 - 04:00 PM, said:

Hate to say this but you and your kid both need a kick in the pants. This is a game, the point is to win. This is a PvP game, which means in order to win, you must defeat another human player, which means they must lose. Your son doesn't like the fact that he can't always win, and if he can't always win, the game isn't fair and he won't play any more. And you are condoning this? Seriously, you both need a kick in the pants. Let me guess, any sports he does, no team loses do they? Everyone gets a prize for just being there right? What happened to teaching your child that winning is what you want and if you can't do it, practice and try harder until you can win?

Good gods, can you imagine the NFL in 20 years? Cowboys and Broncos and Steelers and Dolphins and Ravens and every single team in the entire league WINS THE SUPERBOWL! AGAIN!!

I totally get this rant and where it's coming from, but I don't think it's justified being unleashed on this guy and his kid. I don't know if you remember back when you were a kid, but you were probably ****** (like most kids). And losing probably wasn't something you took very well. I lost a few good controllers to rage-quit moments in my younger days.

Imagine being a kid playing this game. It's hard enough to learn without the state of the game being what it is. 'Mech customization, torso-twist, heat management, group tactics, weapon ranges, tons of HUD info, etc. On top of the already-steep learning curve, the game is not balanced properly, there are a few seriously OP pieces of equipment, people who know what they're doing (and the occasional four-man) face-roll you, and if you aren't a lag-shooting god, lights are all but invincible.

Consider for a moment that the game isn't about winning to them. It's about having fun, and there's very little of that to be had for fresh meat.

[bANANAjOE]

You are hiring? What about these Guys: http://www.mechlivinglegends.net/ ?! There can`t be more enthusiastic mechgame-designers out there than them to bring this game forward!

=9th= Lt. bANANAjOE , German Clan 9th Blood and Fire , 9thbloodandfire.de

Edited by bANANAjOE, 18 January 2013 - 04:30 AM.

[Der_Goetz]

**** ECM.

[Wolf Clearwater]

Can we please have a hero raven with jump jets? No ECM required......

[Kodjak]

Hi all,

well, I consider myself as a noob, but this discussion about ECM...

In my humble opinion, it is too powerful! But before I continue, I do have a question:
The Beagle Drone, is it not supposed to counter ECM? As far as I understand the concept of such a drone, it should. But as I have never seen it in any match, I guess it's not usable or worth equipping.

Anyhow, yes, the ECM is too powerful, it gives to many advantages for to less disatvantages. It despratly needs to be fixed somehow, either it works only for a certain time, I don't know, 30 secs and has a cooldown, or you get a heat penalty, like 10% more heat per default or what not.

Also I do have another question to the devs, I'm not sure if this is the proper place to post it:
When will we see new weapons?

Kind regards,
Kodjak

[Strum Wealh]

Kodjak, on 21 January 2013 - 02:56 AM, said:

The Beagle Drone, is it not supposed to counter ECM? As far as I understand the concept of such a drone, it should. But as I have never seen it in any match, I guess it's not usable or worth equipping.

Well, first: the Beagle Active Probe is not a "drone" (in the sense of an unmanned, autonomous or remotely-operated vehicle/device), but a powerful extra sensor cluster - it's more like the AN/APG-78 Longbow Fire Control Radar used on some variants of the Apache attack helicopter.

Secondly: it's the other way around - Guardian ECM is the counter (and, in a way, the compliment) to BAP, which is in turn the counter to the basic jamming gear built into every 'Mech (not implemented as a pilot-controlled system), which is in turn the counter (and, in a way, the compliment) to the basic sensor system built into every 'Mech.

Later in the BattleTech timeline, the more-advanced Angel ECM Suite is produced alongside (and based on) the Guardian, which is then countered by the advanced Bloodhound Active Probe.

[Kodjak]

Sturm Wealh, thanks a lot for clarification. So, from what I have read about the BAP, it's actually rather useless in the game (My statement is based on the benefit BAP gives you and on the disatvantages which come with the BAP, like costs, weight...). At least for me the usage of BAP isn't justified.

But here is my suggestion, why is not the BAP modified so it can counter ECM? Wouldn't that make more sense?

[Ave Hax]

All i have to say is store = contract = t-shirt if the devs need money ??? just saying
an empty store icon
Personal note ecm = beagle board game countered it and you would see a lot more variable mecks out there.
keep it up devs you are doing a good job!

[Strum Wealh]

Kodjak, on 21 January 2013 - 04:52 AM, said:

Sturm Wealh, thanks a lot for clarification. So, from what I have read about the BAP, it's actually rather useless in the game (My statement is based on the benefit BAP gives you and on the disatvantages which come with the BAP, like costs, weight...). At least for me the usage of BAP isn't justified.

But here is my suggestion, why is not the BAP modified so it can counter ECM? Wouldn't that make more sense?

Yet, Guardian is the counter to Beagle. If Guardian counters Beagle and Beagle counters Guardian and Guardian counters Guardian ("Disrupt" versus "Counter" modes), then things go the other way and Guardian seems/becomes "useless".

Beagle seems weak/useless because a number of the things it should be able to do (based on the BattleTech rules, specifically those in Tactical Operations) were not translated into MechWarrior Online. These abilities include:

• Detect "hidden units" (that is, detect enemies that are behind trees, behind or inside buildings, and so on - it can see through everything but ground, large bodies of water, and ECM fields)
  
• Assist with targeting of non-missile weapons (that is, providing a slight boost to convergence and/or tracking speeds)
  
• Probing an opponent for information (that is, providing more target information than the current "paper doll" display - exact amounts of armor and ammunition remaining, the exact health remaining on internal components, heat levels, and so on)
  
• Detecting minefields (though, that would require the implementation of mines and minefields)
  
• See through "ghost targets" (that is, differentiate false "radar decoy" targets from real targets; this would require the implementation of ghost target abilities for ECM Suites and Command Consoles)
  
• Monitor an area through remote sensors (though, that would require the implementation of remote sensors)
  
• Save sensor data from a match for later review and analysis (essentially, an interactive replay function; this one is more background flavor/"fluff" from one of the Technical Readouts than gameplay rule, but it's still a canon ability)

By contrast, what BAP in MWO can do right now is:

• 25% increased sensor range
  
• 25% decreased target level acquisition time
  
• allows targeting of unpowered 'Mechs within 120m

BAP seems weak and useless, because it can and should be able to do so much more than it actually does at the present time.

Ave Hax, on 21 January 2013 - 05:41 AM, said:

Personal note ecm = beagle board game countered it and you would see a lot more variable mecks out there.

No, it doesn't.
"The ECM’s disruptive abilities affect all enemy units inside this bubble, as well as any line of sight traced through the bubble."
"Active Probe: Active probes cannot penetrate the ECM’s area of effect. The probing unit would notice that it is being jammed, however."
(Total Warfare, pg. 134)

Edited by Strum Wealh, 21 January 2013 - 06:01 AM.

[MadPanda]

So the answers to Q&A30 is coming next friday or when? I thought it would come last friday. This ask the devs thing is kinda failure.

[Strum Wealh]

MadPanda, on 21 January 2013 - 10:09 AM, said:

So the answers to Q&A30 is coming next friday or when? I thought it would come last friday. This ask the devs thing is kinda failure.

They did say on the 15th that, "Answers will be posted next Monday before the end of the day!"

So, it will be today, as of PGI's close-of-business (though, bear in mind that they would be on Pacific-US/Canada time, so it is eight hours behind GMT/UTC).