76 replies to this topic

[PaintedWolf]

Now what are we supposed to do if we face a Clan Mech with 6 of those, being ER PPC and more heat efficieny and more damage with an Advanced Targeting computer and the Mech is faster with more armor? And no minimum range and greater maximum range. Inner Sphere just drop like flies or what?

Edited by PaintedWolf, 02 January 2013 - 04:01 PM.

[Deux]

well thats what happens to IS when they faced clans at the start....

[IceSerpent]

1. Alpha striking with 6 Clan ERPPCs will cause you to shutdown for the rest of the match if you are lucky and would melt your mech instantly if you are not so lucky.
2. This sort of a build is just for lulz now (i.e. not really viable) and will remain like that regardles of tech.
3. It's called Warhawk, not Masakari, and it's highly unlikely to have 6 energy hardpoints.

[Pariah Devalis]

With 6 IS-ERPPC, it simulates the damage, range, and heat profile of the Warhawk Prime's four Clan ERPPC. It shuts down immediately under the current heat scaling for PPCs. 6 C-ERPPC would probably make the mech burn a hole into the core of the world, just from the heat radiating off of the guns. o_0

[BigMooingCow]

Clan DHS takes up two slots, not three, their XL engines are smaller, and their ES and FF take up fewer slots. So in comparison to a Stalker, a Masakari will have a higher heat cap, better heat dissipation, and better armor/speed. Masarkari alphas will still create a giant heat spike, but not as bad as our Stalkers.

Basically, we're all gonna die. It's gonna be some fun carnage.

(It's gonna be interesting to see what PGI does to make the Clan invasion fun, when the script basically calls for the IS to be fed through a Clan tech meat grinder for a few YEARS. I'd love to stay in the IS and try to scavenge a few cERML's while dodging Masakari alphas and hiding from swarms of Fire Moths. But how are they gonna make it fun for the IS? It'll be fascinating to watch.)

[LynxFury]

Quote

I'd love to stay in the IS and try to scavenge a few cERML's

Adapting those weapons to IS chassis shouldn't be very easy. Perhaps another module to plug in one or two clan weapons and visa versa (for the tiny number of better IS weapons a clanner might like).

[Thorn Hallis]

We'll see if it even happens.

[BigMooingCow]

LynxFury, on 03 January 2013 - 08:57 AM, said:

Adapting those weapons to IS chassis shouldn't be very easy. Perhaps another module to plug in one or two clan weapons and visa versa (for the tiny number of better IS weapons a clanner might like).

Agreed; easy availability of clan weaponry for IS mechs would just make one big pool of mechs and weapons that nobody wants to use. They have to remain separate for the most part. We don't want IS Jenners running around with six cERML's or Catapults with a giant load of Clan LRM's.

I'm interested how they're going to try to make people play the clans as they acted in lore. I suppose penalties for not obeying RoE would help, and a sort of simulation of a batchall would be neat. Maybe force a clan team to drop with 20% less tonnage or something.

Anyway, can't wait to see it! Including crazy mechs like the Masakari and Supernova!

[dal10]

if I remember right the difference between CERPPCs and IS ERPPCs is 5 damage and maybe some weight.

Edited by dal10, 03 January 2013 - 07:43 PM.

[Pariah Devalis]

C-ERPPC Do more damage for more heat at 6 tons instead of 7. 15 damage if I remember correctly. I believe in table top, it was 15 damage for 15 heat.

I have no doubt more heatsinks on the Warhawk will cycle the heat off quickly, but in the current incarnation of the game, the maximum heatload cap before automatic shutdown is the same across the board. Six IS-ERPPC put out the same damage and heat as 4 C-ERPPC and cause immediate, as in from 0% to 100% instantaneously, shutdown. It is part of why I think the heatscale in MWO needs tweaking.

At the very least in regards to PPC. If they made it so a single IS-ERPPC did 15% of your maximum heat capacity and scaled that up to 22.5% per C-ERPPC, you could hit a very high heat level of 90% firing four C-ERPPC. This would be hot enough that there would be a necessary wait time before you could even shoot once, let alone ripple fire, or else face shutdown.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 03 January 2013 - 09:57 PM.

[Elkarlo]

I am driving a 6 PPC Stalker bymyself, and the 50% more damage outputt of the CER PPC don't frighten me.
an Atlas or Assault Can survive one hit.

Then the Daishi is in big big big Trouble. There is no way to avoid Shutdown.
According to Mechbay tool you need 31 Heatsinks to avoid Shutdown.
This would be 58 Slots for heatsinks + 12 Slots for the CERPPC. (300XL Engine)
A Daishi has a maximum of 44 Crit slots..

But he will be able to field 4 C-ERPPC with the same Effency Ratio as a Stalker with 6ppc.
Without minimum Range and more Range. And essentially a higher rate of fire thanks to his Clan DHS.

Effektivly a Stalker with 6 PPC can do more damage then a Daishi with 6 C-ERPPC's
The Stalker can putt quiet sure 120Damage into one zone, the Daishi "only" 90 as he Shutsdown directly.

A 4 or 5 C ERPPC build would be possible and nasty as hell.
But you need to two shot Heavy and Assaults for CT kills or Sidetorso removal.
You can do that when you have a good target, firing yourself into Shutdown.
And you can go out of Shutdown with Override but by ANYTERMS don't run until you are at 80% Heat
or your Mech will simply explode.

Edited by Elkarlo, 08 January 2013 - 06:53 AM.

[Der BruzZzler von Wiesndoof]

It gives a nice imagination, how the Warhawk prime could work in MWO! Four Clan ER PPC's = 60 dmg!
Similar to this Stalker config, the Warhawk can't perform a alphastrike without risking a shutdown.

[Chavette]

It just gets better if you get dropped on the volcanic map...

[Stormwolf]

The Birdeater, on 15 January 2013 - 10:47 AM, said:

It gives a nice imagination, how the Warhawk prime could work in MWO! Four Clan ER PPC's = 60 dmg!
Similar to this Stalker config, the Warhawk can't perform a alphastrike without risking a shutdown.

You think that's bad? The Nova is gonna be a complete deathtrap.

The Summoner might be the only viable mech out there.

[Dirkdaring]

The range advantage won't really matter due to the MWO maps.

[Pariah Devalis]

The lack of minimum range is the important in mwo aspect, however. At least with a six PPC stalker you can get safe at sub 90 meters. Imagine if the armor was not doubled, though. Instant kill mech. XD

[Natasha Kerensky]

PaintedWolf, on 02 January 2013 - 04:00 PM, said:

Now what are we supposed to do if we face a Clan Mech with 6 of those, being ER PPC and more heat efficieny and more damage with an Advanced Targeting computer and the Mech is faster with more armor? And no minimum range and greater maximum range. Inner Sphere just drop like flies or what?

Yes! I hope the Inner Sphere drops like files or like a brick. The Clans are the honorable warriors. Inner Sphere scums have no honor.

[Ashnod]

PaintedWolf, on 02 January 2013 - 04:00 PM, said:

Now what are we supposed to do if we face a Clan Mech with 6 of those, being ER PPC and more heat efficieny and more damage with an Advanced Targeting computer and the Mech is faster with more armor? And no minimum range and greater maximum range. Inner Sphere just drop like flies or what?

They still will be the same heat as a innersphere ER PPC.. just more damage, and knowing PGI they probably wont buff clan heat sinks either.

Also the 4 ER PPC Warhawk as it is has awful heat efficiency.

Edited by Ashnod, 25 January 2013 - 01:34 PM.

[Thariel]

if you take into consideration that IS mechs are way op-ed than canon allows atm (engine changing, structure changing, armor changing, heatsinks changing, hardpoints in gereral etc, etc, etc..) to introduce the clans properly, PGI would have to cut all weapon weight, weapon heat and slots for Clans by 50% of the Canon values and double ammo/ton and range. Under these circumstances your beloved Warhawk would run 8-10 C-ER-PPC and enough heatsinks to chain-alphastrike without heat getting above 5%. Would love to see them introduce clans..

[Hotthedd]

BigMooingCow, on 03 January 2013 - 10:14 AM, said:

Agreed; easy availability of clan weaponry for IS mechs would just make one big pool of mechs and weapons that nobody wants to use. They have to remain separate for the most part. We don't want IS Jenners running around with six cERML's or Catapults with a giant load of Clan LRM's.

I'm interested how they're going to try to make people play the clans as they acted in lore. I suppose penalties for not obeying RoE would help, and a sort of simulation of a batchall would be neat. Maybe force a clan team to drop with 20% less tonnage or something.

Anyway, can't wait to see it! Including crazy mechs like the Masakari and Supernova!

Adding weapons to IS chassis, coupled with the fact that Clan omnimechs do not have variants (they have alternate configs.) could keep IS mechs viable after the invasion. A mastered IS chassis (with clan weapons) could approximate a clan chassis.