140 replies to this topic

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Curious, how people could not tell that you were running an XL given the tonnage placed into armament and the still decent speed.

[Noodlesoup]

Joseph Mallan, on 03 January 2013 - 03:34 AM, said:

I don't see you shutting down in those screen shots. i see some self back patting. Seems to me you are more worried about the kills than cash, your team mates seem to do a lot of assisting so they are getting good cash payouts. Which may be all they are looking for.

i was on the blue team fyi. and in case you didn't read the entire thread, it was tongue-in-cheek poking fun at some of the "common knowledge" flying around on the forum on how lousy my stalker build should be.

[GioAvanti]

Noodlesoup, on 02 January 2013 - 11:04 PM, said:

you guys missed the screenshot didn't you?

The screen shot means little... hate to break it to you and the people liking your post.....

Stalker with an XL engine is like admitting you have no clue about whats really going on. Anything works every once in awhile... if that's all you want then sure you're build is fine.... but play anyone decent and you're toast...

Also you didn't mention if you had help. Lots of builds put up good numbers if they have 3+ people padding them

[GioAvanti]

Noodlesoup, on 03 January 2013 - 01:15 PM, said:

i was on the blue team fyi. and in case you didn't read the entire thread, it was tongue-in-cheek poking fun at some of the "common knowledge" flying around on the forum on how lousy my stalker build should be.

It is pretty bad.... Not saying you can't do well with it.... but the well part is reliant on your enemies being idiots.

DV McKenna, on 03 January 2013 - 05:33 AM, said:

Curious, how people could not tell that you were running an XL given the tonnage placed into armament and the still decent speed.

This is the dumb part.... most smart players are going to go for a side torso anyway.

[Noodlesoup]

GioAvanti, on 03 January 2013 - 01:25 PM, said:

The screen shot means little... hate to break it to you and the people liking your post.....

Stalker with an XL engine is like admitting you have no clue about whats really going on. Anything works every once in awhile... if that's all you want then sure you're build is fine.... but play anyone decent and you're toast...

Also you didn't mention if you had help. Lots of builds put up good numbers if they have 3+ people padding them

i was running a solo-drop-pug. i had the normal amount of help (or lack thereof). and those screen captures are from yesterday. i'll admit that sometimes i do better than others and that my average runs closer to 600 damage done and 3 kills in a typical game. And if you'll check the capture again, the other teams are more than decent as they all average a good amount of damage and kills before i down them.

[Roland]

Quote

Stalker with an XL engine is like admitting you have no clue about whats really going on.

Not really. It could also mean that you are simply willing to accept the reduced durability in the mech for the increased agility/firepower that you get with an XL.

It's the same tradeoff that you get with any XL equipped mech. And in the case of the Stalker, where you're probably using a decent sized engine, the tonnage you get for putting an XL in there is non-trivial.

If you are able to translate that tonnage into enough increased firepower that you make up for the reduction in durability, saying, "That's dumb" is a purely academic argument. Ultimately, what matters is how well your mech actually performs on the battlefield.

[Noodlesoup]

GioAvanti, on 03 January 2013 - 01:29 PM, said:

It is pretty bad.... Not saying you can't do well with it.... but the well part is reliant on your enemies being idiots.



This is the dumb part.... most smart players are going to go for a side torso anyway.

i would be dumb to let them have my side torso without a fight.

[siLve00]

Noodlesoup, on 02 January 2013 - 10:58 PM, said:

300 XL Engine, 4xLLs, 0.93 heat efficiency, how can i improve my stalker?

edit: in the interest of full disclosure. my stalker also has 4xSRM6s and 2xSLs. it still overheats though.. what can i do?!

now post all the screens where you do 300 damage ^^

i had to laugh so loud... LL XL... well blind chicken... corn... all that kind of stuff and so on.. blablbalba

good players dont neet to brag on the forum... they just do eeeeeeet.
grow up get some pubics.

[GioAvanti]

Noodlesoup, on 03 January 2013 - 01:30 PM, said:

i would be dumb to let them have my side torso without a fight.

Yep.... unfortunately sometimes you won't have a choice and others the person will happily shoot your other side.

Extremely easy to hit a side torso on a stalker from the side also.

Also why do you even need an XL engine in the first place?

Edited by GioAvanti, 03 January 2013 - 01:48 PM.

[Volume]

What you really need is to drop those LL - make all energy weapons SPL. And the missile weapons can be SRM 2s, only.

And while you're at it, drop the endo, take FF, it would be vastly superior for your purposes.

[PaintedWolf]

This is pathetic. These forums have so much potential to get new players into the game, to encourage people to experiment and make creative yet effective builds but instead all I see is people getting jealous, blindly following tradition/convention/bias, coming to a point of view on the basis of "everyone is saying it" and then digging their heads in the sand and refusing to admit they are wrong no matter what.

This turns people OFF the game when the forums are this vexatious. Is the goal of these critics to ruin the game? Because that's what it sounds like. Their goal is to make players enjoy the game less. I mean there are a bunch of screen shots- are they ALL wrong? Are they ALL just the other team being idiots? How is this player determining the exact composition of the other team 100% of the time? Are you accusing him/her of hacks?

[GioAvanti]

Roland, on 03 January 2013 - 01:30 PM, said:

Not really. It could also mean that you are simply willing to accept the reduced durability in the mech for the increased agility/firepower that you get with an XL.

It's the same tradeoff that you get with any XL equipped mech. And in the case of the Stalker, where you're probably using a decent sized engine, the tonnage you get for putting an XL in there is non-trivial.

If you are able to translate that tonnage into enough increased firepower that you make up for the reduction in durability, saying, "That's dumb" is a purely academic argument. Ultimately, what matters is how well your mech actually performs on the battlefield.

Honestly... it is rather stupid.
Why?

Pro: You get more damage (subjective.... btw due to heat and other load outs actually putting out more alpha dmg)
Pro: Better speed (last guy I talked to bragged he was going 65 kph with his xl engine)

Con: Major loss in durability (compounded by the mech's body)
Con: 6 critical slots lost (which are really needed for heat sinks)


Simply put: The pros you get are weak pros and the cons are nasty as hell.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

GioAvanti, on 03 January 2013 - 01:55 PM, said:

Honestly... it is rather stupid.
Why?

Pro: You get more damage (subjective.... btw due to heat and other load outs actually putting out more alpha dmg)
Pro: Better speed (last guy I talked to bragged he was going 65 kph with his xl engine)

Con: Major loss in durability (compounded by the mech's body)
Con: 6 critical slots lost (which are really needed for heat sinks)


Simply put: The pros you get are weak pros and the cons are nasty as hell.

Honestly, it depends on your design and intent for the mech.
I agree in pug games its pretty daft, 8v8's not so much...but like i say it depends on your intent.

[GioAvanti]

PaintedWolf, on 03 January 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

This is pathetic. These forums have so much potential to get new players into the game, to encourage people to experiment and make creative yet effective builds but instead all I see is people getting jealous, blindly following tradition/convention/bias, coming to a point of view on the basis of "everyone is saying it" and then digging their heads in the sand and refusing to admit they are wrong no matter what.

This turns people OFF the game when the forums are this vexatious. Is the goal of these critics to ruin the game? Because that's what it sounds like. Their goal is to make players enjoy the game less. I mean there are a bunch of screen shots- are they ALL wrong? Are they ALL just the other team being idiots? How is this player determining the exact composition of the other team 100% of the time? Are you accusing him/her of hacks?

Please don't derp: Anyone can selectively grab SS's and yes there are a ton of idiots playing the game. A premade can also help him inflate his numbers for the lulz and troll post on the forums.

And honestly his post hurts newbies because they'll think this works and then someone with half a brain with kill them in a few seconds and they will rage quit.

[PaintedWolf]

Volume, on 03 January 2013 - 01:49 PM, said:

What you really need is to drop those LL - make all energy weapons SPL. And the missile weapons can be SRM 2s, only.

And while you're at it, drop the endo, take FF, it would be vastly superior for your purposes.

What you need to do is stop criticizing someone who is performing superbly. Obviously the "XL Engines are NEVER EVER a good idea on a Brawler EVER NO MATTER WHAT" arguments are wrong.

And it does not take --too-- much imagination to see why that would be.

1- The enemy does not know you have an XL.

2- Lose R-L Torso and 9/10 times you are ready to die anyways.

3- The extra-firepower/armor/speed are benefits that can outweigh the XL Engine being on the Brawler.

4- Brawler gets to the battlefield faster- and will soon Torso Twist faster to boot.

5- Extra-Armor = less risk of an ammo explosion.

6- Engine can crit sink to help avoid an ammo explosion.

Also this is not a pure brawler- the Large Lasers make it so the Mech can ALSO fight at range. All these points might not mean much if presented by themselves without any evidence, but with the screen shots one should at least start to question the assumptions of this particular group.

[GioAvanti]

DV McKenna, on 03 January 2013 - 01:57 PM, said:

Honestly, it depends on your design and intent for the mech.
I agree in pug games its pretty daft, 8v8's not so much...but like i say it depends on your intent.

Oh if he stood on a hill and just sniped with the lasers then the XL engine isn't so bad.... issue is that again requires some serious stupidity on the enemy team.

[PaintedWolf]

Also, again this is not a Pure Brawler. The Mech can Brawl or it can Snipe- that is what the XL Engine enables. So even IF having a Brawler with an XL is always a bad idea no matter what, this Mech- I repeat- is not a pure brawler.

And the stubborness these critics are showing is just making me question their judgment in general. I mean, now I wonder if a Brawler might be better with an XL- just because these people have missed the obvious point for 5+ pages and a dozen+ posts.

[Noodlesoup]

GioAvanti, on 03 January 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:

Yep.... unfortunately sometimes you won't have a choice and others the person will happily shoot your other side.

Extremely easy to hit a side torso on a stalker from the side also.

Also why do you even need an XL engine in the first place?

so i can fit more guns =D duh.

Volume, on 03 January 2013 - 01:49 PM, said:

What you really need is to drop those LL - make all energy weapons SPL. And the missile weapons can be SRM 2s, only.

And while you're at it, drop the endo, take FF, it would be vastly superior for your purposes.

should i also load extra BAP and go with 5 tons of AMS ammo "just in case"?

[PaintedWolf]

Noodlesoup, on 03 January 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

so i can fit more guns =D duh.



should i also load extra BAP and go with 5 tons of AMS ammo "just in case"?

More guns, more armor, more ammo, possibly even more HS.

[a rabid chihuahua]

I say scrap it till collision is reinstated..then put the biggest xl engine you can hold,strip all weapons and max out armor ,then run around ramming everything in the back spamming "pedobear's here for ya!"