59 replies to this topic

[Lorcan Lladd]

'Not dying'?

[One Medic Army]

BerryChunks, on 03 January 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

There isnt a "not being terminally stupid" vote.

I think that falls under all 3.
Running out alone=terminally stupid=no team work
Putting 4 Med Pulses on an atlas and nothing else=terminally stupid=bad build
Shooting out a stalker's leg when he's almost cored and about to kill you=terminally stupid=bad personal tactics

[Pr8Dator]

Lorcan Lladd, on 03 January 2013 - 05:07 PM, said:

'Not dying'?

The question this poll is trying to answer is how to achieve "Not dying"...

One Medic Army, on 03 January 2013 - 05:13 PM, said:

I think that falls under all 3.
Running out alone=terminally stupid=no team work
Putting 4 Med Pulses on an atlas and nothing else=terminally stupid=bad build
Shooting out a stalker's leg when he's almost cored and about to kill you=terminally stupid=bad personal tactics

A terminally stupid person may actually survive combat with a win if running with the right premade team too...

[Kaboodle]

Of the options, Teamwork. BUT....situational awareness is probably even more important. If everyone on the team had good awareness, actual "teamwork" wouldn't be needed. They'd focus ECM/heavy damage/easy targets without having to speak at all.

[Sug]

Team with the most ecm ravens wins.

[Wraith05]

Thontor, on 03 January 2013 - 08:32 AM, said:

I recently played a match where I queued solo... Right from the start my team was at a 7v8 disadvantage because of a disconnect or something... My team stuck together, and I used the text chat to say what letter target to focus fire on... We won with a score of 8 to 1 or 2

The enemy was disorganized and spread out.. Easy pickings for a team coordinated by simple text chat.

Moral of the story, teamwork trumps numerical advantage.

And I 100% agree with you! But without that teamwork you likely would have lost.

My point was meant as when you don't have 1 or more people working with the team that go and get themselves killed without contributing much. Your chances of losing just went up significantly.

[Fogswynd]

Sug, on 03 January 2013 - 05:49 PM, said:

Team with the most ecm ravens wins.

Unfortunately, I've seen this to be true too often...but I haven't worked out the weakness of an ECM Raven just yet.

In the greater scheme of things, however, I agree with whomever brought question to the definition of 'teamwork' in this sense.
Mech Build synergy is just as important as teamplay synergy, and given that (minus 8mans) we cannot always guarantee build synergy, we're better off to make the best of what we wind up with for a team - which coincidentally, is much harder to do.

[FrostPaw]

Teamwork definitely team work, however...if you and your enemy have teamwork, then it comes down to personal skill & mech build.

[Xiang]

Teamwork rules (my opinion).

Had a match today where i was in a circle firefight - me in a hunchback vs a catapult. It was a very even match, but i would say the cat had a small lead. Along comes a teammate who get a 1 shot alpha kill on the cat due to the damage i had already inflicted. I thanked him for his help and the 2 of us moved off to take down a few more bad guys. Did i worry about the kill stat - no. Did i walk away with a top 3 finish and 6-7 assists - yes, all thanks to a teammate.

Now many of you are asking why was i alone to start with. It was conquest mode. I was in a 92 KPH mech and ran to do a fast cap, then i usually meet back up with the team, but i got delayed on my return run. But the team knew what was going on and since i didnt come right back, someone came to check on me....this was a PUG, but we communicated from the beginning of the drop, so everyone knew what was up.

Xiang

[SpiralRazor]

Poll is invalid.


Most ECM Ravens wins..

Ever notice how the ECM Ravens are OFTEN the last mechs alive on the field?? Happens...a lot.

[Radbane]

i voted Personal Fighting Tactics, because that is what actually decides if there will be teamwork or not.

I as a person might tactically chose to stick with the team and support my fellow warriors and bring victory to the table. I may also chose to make a stupid tactical decission and go Rambo on myself, get myself killed, and really not provide anything to the team.

Personal Fighting Tactics results in either Teamwork or not.

[Nightfangs]

I was one of the few pilots that voted for "mech build".
"Mech build" is responsible for the number of ECMs and the lagshield.
Both are effects that are somewhat more "important" than teamplay or individual skill.

In my experience it is easier for an average team with 6 ECMs to win against an equal 0 ECM team than for an experienced 0 ECM team to win against an average 6 ECM team.

[VXJaeger]

Most of all, LUCK. U can have all the ECM and firepower in the world, but if your teammates are normal PUGs (bunch of squirrel chasing gluesniffing ****-drunk-manatees) u will lose no matter what.

Edited by VXJaeger, 04 January 2013 - 01:56 AM.

[Kaspirikay]

whether im on your team or not




if i am, we'll probably lose.

[BigMooingCow]

For those complaining that PUGs don't coordinate... it's tough, because:

1. This is a real-time game. I can either try to kill the Stalker before he unleashes another 24 SRMs, or I can tell everyone where he is. How many people do you figure would take 24 SRMs in the face to spend the time to figure out the grid position and type "Assault G7"?

2. If you DO type stuff, you're usually greeted with silence. How long would you keep calling targets if nobody cared? I did it for a few days.

3. There is no standard communications vernacular in MWO as of yet. The game is pretty new to public players, and if you've played a PUG match you know that nobody talks. So, how would people know how to call out targets by grid?

4. The grid isn't a prominent part of the in-game UI, and when targets aren't visible on your minimap it takes some mental gymnastics to posit their location (ie: "lets see, he's maybe two squares North, and one square East... I'm in G5, so that's F3"). A full-screen overlay or a piece of HUD info to show the grid location would help this problem immensely.

5. People don't generally know if they're getting beat up by really good gamers or beat by a coordinated team. If the game showed who dropped as a group people might start to understand that they aren't just getting so unlucky to drop against mega twitch gamers, but are getting played by people utilizing coordinated tactics, or at the VERY least people who will help their teammate out when they scream on TS. (I know I've been saved more than once by a teammate when a scout started harassing my sniper or missile boat.)

I could go on, but I think it's obvious the deck is stacked against pugs, and they're just dropping and dying because what else can you do?

FWIW, I am pugging the majority of the time now because getting into a TS group takes a while and I can't stay in a group for a long time because I have a new baby in the house. I would go from 90% pugging to 100% group play if there were in-game voice chat. Teamplay would improve dramatically if voice were integrated. Anyone who has played a FPS with integrated voice knows this.

Scryed, on 03 January 2013 - 10:37 AM, said:

But a 8 ECM mech team will trump a non ECM equipped team

Also, an 8-man team with AMS will trump a non-AMS equipped team. As will an LRM team, or a gauss team, or any other piece of useful equipment. Flamers, not so much.

People scream and holler about ECM, but to me it seems more like the screaming you get from talking heads on political stations. Repeat your point loud enough for long enough, and people might start believing it. The reality in the game is, you just lose some targeting info. Your weapons (barring LRMs and SSRMs) are completely unaffected by targeting info. I don't know how people have convinced themselves that a match is unwinnable unless they can press the "R" key to get a bracket around their enemy.

[Asmudius Heng]

Thontor, on 03 January 2013 - 08:50 AM, said:

Disagree.. Both teamwork, and individual pilot skill trump ECM every time...

ECM does too much, I won't argue with that... But on its own it doesn't affect the outcome that much.

It does have a synergistic effect when combined with teamwork and individual pilot skill though, the result is greater than the sum of the individual effects.

This is true - however if both sides are not all that co-ordinated a single ECM mech if the other side does not have it makes a huge impact.

It takes very little teamwork to make ECM very effective - but it takes a LOT of teamwork to overcome ECM.

As such the equipment itself is 'greater' than teamwork total. No one can argue that teamwork will not trump ECM, but teamwork being about equal ECM skews the results wildly.

As such I wanted to vote for mech build only ebcause of ECM, but the poll really is too simplistic to say. With the current choices teamwork is the only real answer. However teamwork is HARD compared to the other two and requires so much more communication and skill to make it work.

So basically you are saying this really hard but very rewarding thing is better than the moderatly rewarding but very easy thing.

As such teamwork done well is true but the poll is too simplistic to make the distinction on ease of use. Teamwork can fall apart very easily for example while ECM is a button click away.

[Barghest Whelp]

Well, it's kinda funny, because from my observation it's a combination of individual skills and teamwork. It doesn't matter how well your team is working if your team sucks.

Most of the matches I lose, there are at least 2-3 people on my team that did less than 100 damage. To me this translates to poor player skill. When my team steamrolls the other team, there's at least 3 player on the other team that did less than 100 damage.

But one or two players doing really well doesn't really help either, as they need the support of their team in order to win.

[Mazgazine1]

Its ALWAYS teamwork, There was a group of 100km/h centurions (at least 4 of them were a premade) and it was hilariously destructive to the 4 assaults in back, we did not get a chance to really hurt them..

[Kaijin]

BigMooingCow, on 04 January 2013 - 06:25 AM, said:

an 8-man team with AMS will trump a non-AMS equipped team. As will an LRM team, or a gauss team, or any other piece of useful equipment. Flamers, not so much.

I haven't found this to be the case. AMS is unnecessary if your team uses cover and is good at it, and the team with AMS can be trumped with an LRM5 or 5 just by burning up the ammo. An LRM team vs a non-LRM team - I've been on teams of nothing but brawlers that have made short work of the LRM team...on Caustic even. The gauss team can be tricky, and certainly exciting to take down, but not terribly difficult. The ECM team though - Not so easy, especially when you can't tell friend from foe.