100 replies to this topic

[Jakob Knight]

CYBRN4CR, on 03 January 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

Really? You want ECM on all mechs?

Then get ready to have Streakapults, Gaussapults, Stalkers etc with ECM. And if you die by LRMs in that scenario, I won't even feel sorry for you.

If you die to LRMs in any scenerio, then it's your own fault for not taking countermeasures other than relying on a magic box from the Devs. There are many other ways to stop them that, oddly enough, the people using the above argument refused to accept. Now, they say the same thing they rejected before ECM to defend ECm.

LRMs are a weapon, same as an AC, PPC, or Laser. If they can't kill you when used on you, or can't be fired on you when in their range, then there is something wrong.

Edited by Jakob Knight, 03 January 2013 - 12:44 PM.

[PropagandaWar]

Nope. However if you have a TAG you should be able to use streaks at 180+ as long as you keep the beam on the mech. ECM will have counters I am sure. What I find funny is all but the med mech ecm carriers are missle capable you would think that if they were going to limit what it's on would be non missle mechs. You could even say that ECM even screws with there own missle locking mechanisms.

Edited by PropagandaWar, 03 January 2013 - 12:42 PM.

[Protoculture]

StalaggtIKE, on 03 January 2013 - 12:14 PM, said:

Yes.

If ECM stays in its current form, all mechs should be allowed to equip it.

This, 1000x this.

[Dailey]

Each Mech should have at least 1 Varient that can equip ECM.

[Shismar]

No, I would not want ECM on all mechs.

As it is, most PUG matches only have a few of them and it works very well to add strategic aspects to combat. Not to mention limit the use of LRMs and Streaks that really went over board previously. They are still there and can be very powerful if not countered.

Havin ECM on a few more variants might help though. As well as some fine tuning in the way ECM works. And I don't care how it works in 8vs8, that system is a screw up by itself that no change to ECM can fix.

Pugs are working fine with ECM and the current matchmaker. Priority should be a lobby and better chat/voip integration.

[Bobby Bolivia]

Jakob Knight, on 03 January 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

If you die to LRMs in any scenerio, then it's your own fault for not taking countermeasures other than relying on a magic box from the Devs. There are many other ways to stop them that, oddly enough, the people using the above argument refused to accept. Now, they say the same thing they rejected before ECM to defend ECm.

LRMs are a weapon, same as an AC, PPC, or Laser. If they can't kill you when used on you, or can't be fired on you when in their range, then there is something wrong.

I agree 100% with this.

ECM for everyone isn't a magic pill that will automatically make the game more balanced and easier. When I'm using my D-DC, I have a hell of a time operating like I normally would when I'm being hit with TAG, or if there's an ECM equipped skinny mech running circles around me that is countering mine. People adjusting their tactics to make up for the lock-on difficulty of ECM has made ECM less and less effective over time in my opinion, and will continue to be less of a factor as players adjust.

Also, I'm not singling any one person out from these forums, but what are people going to complain about next if ECM were to get nerfed?

Edited by Dixie Cup, 03 January 2013 - 12:53 PM.

[pseudocoder]

Jakob Knight, on 03 January 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

LRMs are a weapon, same as an AC, PPC, or Laser. If they can't kill you when used on you, or can't be fired on you when in their range, then there is something wrong.

Please stay on topic. I don't want a flood of ECM good/bad flames to ruin this thread.

[Jakob Knight]

Shismar, on 03 January 2013 - 12:51 PM, said:

No, I would not want ECM on all mechs.

As it is, most PUG matches only have a few of them and it works very well to add strategic aspects to combat. Not to mention limit the use of LRMs and Streaks that really went over board previously. They are still there and can be very powerful if not countered.

Havin ECM on a few more variants might help though. As well as some fine tuning in the way ECM works. And I don't care how it works in 8vs8, that system is a screw up by itself that no change to ECM can fix.

Pugs are working fine with ECM and the current matchmaker. Priority should be a lobby and better chat/voip integration.

I don't know which PUGs you have been in, but ECM has devestated PUGs because the (supposed) counter system requires teamwork, an impossibility in PUGs. Thus, only if you -happen- to have more ECM units than the other side is it 'working fine'.

As for 8 v 8, you should care more, as that is how the game is intended to be played in the future. The PUG is only an optional playmode intended to fill time and for casual play, not the real play of the game. After all, PUGs can have no impact on the Factional Warfare that is one of the core elements of the game. Indeed, the goal is for 12 v 12 battles, but server stability prevents this for now.

Edited by Jakob Knight, 03 January 2013 - 01:00 PM.

[StUffz]

2 per Weight class should have ECM equipped but Missions should only allow 2 (1 for each lance) to join.

Edited by StUffz, 03 January 2013 - 12:59 PM.

[Davers]

If all mechs had ECM, then we would prolly see the same thing as when AMS became available to everyone. At first everyone used it. Then people stopped using LRM boats. When that happened the mech chassis that "suffered" the most fitting the AMS got rid of them. Which left the Mechs with the most disposable tonnage (Assaults) and those who benefitted from the protection the most, but who were often away from the Assaults (Lights).

Edited by Davers, 03 January 2013 - 01:02 PM.

[Just Another Poster]

It should be available on "more" Mechs. That much is certain. I'm pretty sure every Raven is built for sensors, not just 1 variant. Why they're restricting it to 4 wonder variants though is beyond me.

[pseudocoder]

StUffz, on 03 January 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:

2 per Weight class should have ECM equipped but Missions should only allow 2 (1 for each lance) to join.

Interesting idea, but I am personally against auto-composing drops for PUG play. I think if you start matchmaking based on loadout (class/tonnage is another issue), then you will be getting less diverse match play which to me will be less interesting.

[Jakob Knight]

pseudocoder, on 03 January 2013 - 12:52 PM, said:

Please stay on topic. I don't want a flood of ECM good/bad flames to ruin this thread.

That's an impossibility as the question of if all mechs should have ECM or not requires justification of that viewpoint, or it's just fluff. Justification requires analysis of the nature of ECM, which in turn means that ECM good/bad conversation is integral to the question you asked.

In short, you can't ask people if ECM should be on all mechs, then ask people not to discuss what they think of ECM itself.

[Solis Obscuri]

Rifter, on 03 January 2013 - 12:38 PM, said:

For sure it should be allowed in all mechs. Or be very heavily nerfed.

I'd say ECM should both be heavily nerfed and available to all 'mechs.

[kingade]

if it is balanced, why not?
rly tell me why not.

[pseudocoder]

Davers, on 03 January 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

If all mechs had ECM, then we would prolly see the same thing as when AMS became available to everyone. At first everyone used it. Then people stopped using LRM boats. When that happened the mech chassis that "suffered" the most fitting the AMS got rid of them. Which left the Mechs with the most disposable tonnage (Assaults) and those who benefitted from the protection the most, but who were often away from the Assaults (Lights).

Cool insight, I was not playing yet when AMS was introduced, but I do agree that all new features that are impactful will go through this process. I don't think it's a bad thing.

Edited by pseudocoder, 03 January 2013 - 01:12 PM.

[Oinkage]

No.

I'd rather the alternative be that they redesign the match start process flow so that it mimics games like League of Legends where each person picks a different mech variant and they limit ECM to a single mech per side.

ECM should be something unique and special, not used by all 8 mechs on both sides.

[Lord Jay]

Not all mechs should be able to equip ECM, but perhaps all mechs should be able to equip ECCM.

I believe ECM and ECCM were separate pieces of equipment in TT anyway..

[7 Nation Army]

NO!

[Wizard Steve]

Nope.