100 replies to this topic

[Bren McGuire]

pseudocoder, on 03 January 2013 - 12:11 PM, said:

I am looking for some thoughts on the possible impact of making ECM available on all variants.

(Please do not discuss alternative fixes to ECM, there is another thread for that.) ---> http://mwomercs.com/...has-ruined-mwo/

The arguments against ECM in its current state that I have personally found most compelling seem to revolve around being limited on the variants you can choose IF you want to use ECM. So why have that limitation?

I understand that as far as lore goes, ECM technology was only recovered from SLDF archives ~25 years ago. It's entirely plausible that Inner Sphere tech hasn't been able to evolve the Guardian into such a modular package yet (as to be interchangeable on any mech platform).

Maybe the plan is to wait until clans? According to Sarna.net, the clans have a 1 ton 1 critical Guardian ECM that can definitely be fitted to nearly any mech. So I don't think I'm reaching too far here.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/ECM_Suite

Any thoughts?

ECM in it's current form is evil and should have been hotfixed, we have premade 4's abusing pugs and even though MWO is still in OB, it's driving away potential paying customers. That said, I believe once ECM has been softened it's fine to keep it restricted to some mechs.

Asking a question back:

ECM currently is overpowered, but why should all the community get ECM capability to counter it rather than a fix?

Two wrongs dont make a right.

Edited by Bren McGuire, 04 January 2013 - 11:22 PM.

[Yogsothoz]

Any mech able to mount a BAP should be able to mount ECM. Both are part of the same electronic warfare suite. Or just wait for clans. All omnimechs can mount ECM.

[PANZERBUNNY]

Yogsothoz, on 04 January 2013 - 11:33 PM, said:

Any mech able to mount a BAP should be able to mount ECM. Both are part of the same electronic warfare suite. Or just wait for clans. All omnimechs can mount ECM.

Virtually invisible mammoth machines of destruction with better everything and immune to missiles.

This isn't going to go over well.

Edited by PANZERBUNNY, 04 January 2013 - 11:37 PM.

[Chunkylad]

I am one for not having ECM on every mech, the current variants that can house ECM are already terrifying. I would hate to see something like a stalker or catapult walking around with an ECM. Would make LRMs and streaks a bit too strong again in my opinion.

[Redmond Spiderhammer]

my take on this is that if the effect of ECM is not overpowered then it should be available to all mechs. If having it available to any mech would be a balance problem then that balance problem should be fixed in the ecm implementation and it should be available to all mechs, or at least a variant of each chassis.

[VXJaeger]

ECM should be limited to "Assault"-class mechs.

[PANZERBUNNY]

It would swing the favour of the "previous less used mechs that currently have ECM" to, " everyone has a Jenner with ECM and the Commando is back to being useless", most wouldn't agree.

We wnat every mech to be viable and the only way to do that is to reign in what ECM does.

The balance can be found.

Edited by PANZERBUNNY, 04 January 2013 - 11:45 PM.

[Chunkylad]

PANZERBUNNY, on 04 January 2013 - 11:43 PM, said:

It would swing the favour of the "previous less used mechs that currently have ECM" to, " everyone has a Jenner with ECM and the Commando is back to being useless", most wouldn't agree.

We wnat every mech to be viable and the only way to do that is to reign in what ECM does.

The balance can be found.

This, prior to ECM, jenners ruled in every way compared to the commando. Give Jenners ECM, goes back to the old days.

[Redmond Spiderhammer]

Chunkylad, on 04 January 2013 - 11:47 PM, said:

This, prior to ECM, jenners ruled in every way compared to the commando. Give Jenners ECM, goes back to the old days.

This is true. I think ECM is just too powerful a perk to limit to certain chassis and variants though. It would be less of an issue of the equipment was more balanced

[Johnny Reb]

Hell no!, If it was available on ll mechs then the jenner is king again not to mention other mechs. Now, I think the laser jenner should have ecm but not the missile variants. In other mechs, if my fast aws has ecm it would be even more powerful! I would lose 1 streak fpr ecm and could prolly make up for it in armor anyway!

[PANZERBUNNY]

If ECM weighed a percentage of the weight of the mech using it, I may be convinced it's an okay idea, but I still think dedicated mechs are the way to go.

It's just a matter of changing the meta from " a light that is almost invincible and can destroy most opposition" to a scout that does his jump, because dog fighting with just one other mech is dangerous business"

I have personally switched over to ECM light hunting with my dual AC 20's. It's fun.

Edited by PANZERBUNNY, 04 January 2013 - 11:56 PM.

[pseudocoder]

Bren McGuire, on 04 January 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

ECM currently is overpowered, but why should all the community get ECM capability to counter it rather than a fix?

Two wrongs dont make a right.

Thanks for replying.

I am not suggesting ECM should be more widely available because it is OP, I am suggesting it be more widely available regardless of whether it is OP. My assertion is that regardless of balancing issues, ECM will always be a powerful component and in order to encourage model/variant diversity it should be much more widely available.

Johnny Reb, on 04 January 2013 - 11:53 PM, said:

Hell no!, If it was available on ll mechs then the jenner is king again not to mention other mechs. Now, I think the laser jenner should have ecm but not the missile variants. In other mechs, if my fast aws has ecm it would be even more powerful! I would lose 1 streak fpr ecm and could prolly make up for it in armor anyway!

I think this line of thinking is flawed. If Jenner X with ECM is OP compared to Raven Y with ECM, doesn't that just mean the Jenner needs to be balanced?

Or are you saying the availability of ECM should be a balancing tool? If that's the case, you lost me.

[Johnny Reb]

Exactly why It should be limited it is so powerful!

[PANZERBUNNY]

We're also talking about a piece of equipment that wasn't a "must have" turning into the premium piece of gear in MWO.

I don't like it.

Sure, it's comparing TT to the game, but it's creating all sorts of issues that don't have to exist. If it had half the capability it currently has, at 1.5 ton, it would still be useful to those who aren't simply after easy mode.

It would be like making Gauss rounds semi tracking, just for the hell of it. That's how I feel about ECM and it's do all design.

Since they are just constructing and combining tech, why not change it into an item they have to "use". It stays active for a certain amount of time and then powers down.

It recharges. You wait. You use it again.

It would make the USE of ECM strategic and not this device that creates super light mech soldiers.

Edited by PANZERBUNNY, 05 January 2013 - 12:02 AM.

[Mr Mantis]

that would completely defeat the purpose of why ecm was implemented in the first place. if they put it on all chassis why not just bring all the chassis weight down by 1.5 tons and 2 slots then remove ecm from the game.

When everyone is special, no one is.

[Bren McGuire]

pseudocoder, on 04 January 2013 - 11:57 PM, said:

Thanks for replying.

I am not suggesting ECM should be more widely available because it is OP, I am suggesting it be more widely available regardless of whether it is OP. My assertion is that regardless of balancing issues, ECM will always be a powerful component and in order to encourage model/variant diversity it should be much more widely available.

With it's current incarnation though, we will all be sacrificing tonnage to equip ECM with your proposed changes. ECM needs to be 'nerfed', not made mandatory.

[smokefield]

If you want ecm on all mechs then it is much better to eliminate ecm from the game totally all mech having ecm means you cannot target any of them unless in close range.

[Reani Che]

O_o

[Thoren Frost]

I don't think it should be on every mech, maybe one model of each class could have the option, but not every single one. On the ones that would have it though, I'd like to see a reduced amount of weapon slots from the normal versions of those particular classes. Just my 2 cents though.

Edited by Thoren Frost, 05 January 2013 - 01:26 AM.

[Kaspirikay]

ECM is too good not to have.


If you get out numbered by ECM, you'll prob lose.

Edited by Kaspirikay, 05 January 2013 - 01:27 AM.