74 replies to this topic

[ApathyZer0]

jshill78, on 04 January 2013 - 10:18 AM, said:

Once again I'm forced to do this.

The game is free to play and even if it weren't you have the right to access the content that was paid for. The developers don't OWE you anything. That includes any indication of what they are working on. If you're curious to see if one or any of those things are worked on... keep playing and waiting. The answers come in patch notes, rare and infrequent forum posts, and the occasional front page update.

Other than that....

I was actually looking for that clip the other day for another thread but got busy with something else. This so perfectly sums up not only these forums but customer/ business relationships in general. I haven't seen forums this bad since diablo 3 was in beta.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Agent of Change, on 04 January 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:

This is part of the problem. You are saying ECM is a dead horse, and several others to be fair, but just because you say it doesn't make it true. The world doesn't revolve around you, I tend to agree ECM needs adjustment but it's not all game breaking as i once felt. I got used to it and my opinions changed a little because of an open mind, that will happen when you decide that someone other than yourself might have valid opinions, or perhaps your judgement is hasty.

Being able to change your mind and being open to new ideas is not a sign of weakness it is a sign of maturity and intelligence. In the end you have options; you can throw a tantrum, you can wait, or you can leave... pretty simple stuff.

First to the troll above your post. I did not say they don't communicate. Period.

Second, you misread what I said. The topic of ECM is a dead horse in the sense of it's been beaten to the ground on the forums. I don't care whether you fall on the "it's broken" or the "it's fine" side of things. But PGI has not managed their message and communicated with the players regarding ECM.

Keep in mind what I am talking about has nothing to do with what people like or dislike in the game. Opinions are always going to differ.

What I am worried about is the fact that PGI does nothing to help manage these problems with their current communication style. And it causes huge board topics that are not good for potential players trying to decide whether to play the game. Nor does it help keep current players who are having issues. I'm not saying you can make everyone happy, but good communication can really fix a lot of things.

[siLve00]

Agent of Change, on 04 January 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:

That's nice,... oh you think your experience is somehow relevant here.

You have an opinion, you have shared your opinion, you have also made an unverified claim and no evidence that even if it was verified it would be relevant.

Do you run a game design studio? Do you code? Are you in the game production business?

If you aren't willing to back up your "claim" with both evidence and a statement as to how in the world it's actually relevant here it isn't worth a damn, it just means you are joining the chorus of whining about wanting something and wanting it now.


I can quote myself too.

i have no clue what you did learn... or where or w/e ...

but 1 goes for all.... if you do advertising ... massive advertising you have to care.

sure you can have patience... PGI does it too.. i saw alot of ppl who had patience... they arent arround anymore ^^ ( as business )

PropagandaWar, on 04 January 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

Then it must be a small business. They have stated that they have over 50 employees. 5 Million isn't squat for a larger company. You do realize a chunk of that goes to IGP? I'll put in time for my boss but he doesn't and hasn't expected me to put in 80 hours a week for his company. He reaps the rewards (yeah I'm not driving the Ferrari he is) and that's fair. I do my job, I do it well or I wouldn't be here for the past decade. Normally I take Christmas vacation off. People are entitled to it if that's what they signed up for. PGI has stated they have people on vacation. They deserve that break as well as anyone else. Avg out there employees at $75,000 then figure out overhead. Yeah not much even in profit if you base it off the "5 Million".

you shouldnt bother to talk to ppl who actual knows how the stuff is going on.
no wonder your boss is driving the ferrari and not you...
you do live in a very small world.. but thats okay for me.. and i guess for you too.

and nvm about those 5 mio $ i just did track it down... lul i would be mad when i would be founder ^^
the revenue is payed by WIN / lose not by income ( i cant describe that very good in english ) ... but IGP dont spend all that money for MW:O .. well who cares ?


again they wana sell something ? they wana have success ? so far for me.. as customer... they fail badly.. and if one of my customer telling another future customer :" you must be patient" .. i would rip my employee into 20 pieces ^^.

customer = king
update + advertising + holiday = mess

sort it out... some ppl have high standards some have very low... or they are just blind PGI/IGP fanbois ( because you cant be MW fanboi if you think like that... if this fails we wont see any other MW pc-game.. just consider how long we had to wait for this here ^^ )

Agent of Change, on 04 January 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:

The world doesn't revolve around you, I

pro post.. serious...lmao... harsh... idiots will track you down to their lvl and beat you with their xp ^^

ima outa here.. i did say what i thought and its my pov... sure there are other opinions... and so on..

lets just hope we can still argue about this in 2 years when were crushing still mechs ^^

Edited by siLve00, 04 January 2013 - 01:30 PM.

[jshill78]

I've worked for and know several companies that take the entire holiday time off. It's not that uncommon. The train of thought is that the efficiency of the employee is down due to holidays as well as interaction and communication with business partners is limited due to their potential holiday observance.

How selfish of you to want another person to suffer because YOU want something. I'm glad they got the additional time with family/friends/self. Not my place to manage them.

Stop being so entitled. They gave you the damn free to play game and gave access to the beta with no further resets. They've already cut you some heavy favors and you bash them for it. They ARE communicating the pertinent information to the player base. You're either not looking for it or you simply don't like the decision they made.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

jshill78, on 04 January 2013 - 01:34 PM, said:

I've worked for and know several companies that take the entire holiday time off. It's not that uncommon. The train of thought is that the efficiency of the employee is down due to holidays as well as interaction and communication with business partners is limited due to their potential holiday observance.

How selfish of you to want another person to suffer because YOU want something. I'm glad they got the additional time with family/friends/self. Not my place to manage them.

Stop being so entitled. They gave you the damn free to play game and gave access to the beta with no further resets. They've already cut you some heavy favors and you bash them for it. They ARE communicating the pertinent information to the player base. You're either not looking for it or you simply don't like the decision they made.

How is working as a communicator on a message board suffering? I don't think I suffered when I worked the last two weeks, I still had my weekends, and I was paid a fair wage.

As I said earlier, even if you didn't work a normal 8 hour day over the last two weeks, I feel like someone who's job it is to communicate on a message board could take a couple hours a day to make some posts that help ease the tense community we have at the moment.

You are getting all up in arms for no reason, there is a lot of hyperbole in your post.

Lastly I appreciate the game, I think it's a good start. But I have two issues, one) it's not a beta, once they started accepting micro-transactions it stopped being a beta. It's the same as any other MMO now. WoW hasn't been a beta for years, but it always has nagging issues and things that create uproars. The big thing is how you manage those things. But this game is no longer a beta. Maybe in name, not in practical application of the word.

two) you think they are communicating fine, and I appreciate your opinion but I disagree. Go read the known issues and general forum posts. There are a lot of big threads with a lot of complaining. When new players come to check out the forums, you are not seeing good things. It's not healthy.

I want this game to succeed. I want mechwarrior. I played the online AOL version to death and loved it. I've read every novel twice. I want my son to play when he gets old enough. But I'm very realistic about the state of things, and I want it fixed.

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 04 January 2013 - 01:43 PM.

[PropagandaWar]

siLve00, on 04 January 2013 - 01:29 PM, said:

i have no clue what you did learn... or where or w/e ...

but 1 goes for all.... if you do advertising ... massive advertising you have to care.

sure you can have patience... PGI does it too.. i saw alot of ppl who had patience... they arent arround anymore ^^ ( as business )




you shouldnt bother to talk to ppl who actual knows how the stuff is going on.
no wonder your boss is driving the ferrari and not you...
you do live in a very small world.. but thats okay for me.. and i guess for you too.

and nvm about those 5 mio $ i just did track it down... lul i would be mad when i would be founder ^^
the revenue is payed by WIN / lose not by income ( i cant describe that very good in english ) ... but IGP dont spend all that money for MW:O .. well who cares ?


again they wana sell something ? they wana have success ? so far for me.. as customer... they fail badly.. and if one of my customer telling another future customer :" you must be patient" .. i would rip my employee into 20 pieces ^^.

customer = king
update + advertising + holiday = mess

sort it out... some ppl have high standards some have very low... or they are just blind PGI/IGP fanbois ( because you cant be MW fanboi if you think like that... if this fails we wont see any other MW pc-game.. just consider how long we had to wait for this here ^^ )



pro post.. serious...lmao... harsh... idiots will track you down to their lvl and beat you with their xp ^^

ima outa here.. i did say what i thought and its my pov... sure there are other opinions... and so on..

lets just hope we can still argue about this in 2 years when were crushing still mechs ^^

Funny the owner of my company wouldn't be wasting his time on here. He generally puts 80+ hours in and it's his life. I happen to have a great understanding of how business works. If I so desired I would start my own company, but I do not want the headaches and I am well compensated for the work I do here. You want to brag about your marketing skill ect., send a link to your website Lets see advertisement samples, I take it you do so well you do not have to work! Your a one man army good for you?. How many employees do you have? You talk a lot but can you walk it. I know I can.

Edited by PropagandaWar, 04 January 2013 - 01:51 PM.

[KinLuu]

I need to know the release date of the highlander.

That is all.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

KinLuu, on 04 January 2013 - 01:52 PM, said:

I need to know the release date of the highlander.

That is all.

Your birthday and as a bonus you will get a free special version. Congratulations.

[Agent of Change]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 04 January 2013 - 01:13 PM, said:

First to the troll above your post. I did not say they don't communicate. Period.

Second, you misread what I said. The topic of ECM is a dead horse in the sense of it's been beaten to the ground on the forums. I don't care whether you fall on the "it's broken" or the "it's fine" side of things. But PGI has not managed their message and communicated with the players regarding ECM.

Keep in mind what I am talking about has nothing to do with what people like or dislike in the game. Opinions are always going to differ.

What I am worried about is the fact that PGI does nothing to help manage these problems with their current communication style. And it causes huge board topics that are not good for potential players trying to decide whether to play the game. Nor does it help keep current players who are having issues. I'm not saying you can make everyone happy, but good communication can really fix a lot of things.

That's fair when you explain it I see what you are saying, I don't necessarily agree that PGI is communicating badly but I suppose that is a matter of what your threshold for acceptable communication is. To me the important part is that we all only see our little part of it and how things affect us, we do not see the bigger picture and for the time being I'm inclined to give the benefit of the doubt to the people who have the best opportunity to see the biggest picture (PGI)

siLve00, on 04 January 2013 - 01:29 PM, said:

i have no clue what you did learn... or where or w/e ...

but 1 goes for all.... if you do advertising ... massive advertising you have to care.

sure you can have patience... PGI does it too.. i saw alot of ppl who had patience... they arent arround anymore ^^ ( as business )




you shouldnt bother to talk to ppl who actual knows how the stuff is going on.
no wonder your boss is driving the ferrari and not you...
you do live in a very small world.. but thats okay for me.. and i guess for you too.

and nvm about those 5 mio $ i just did track it down... lul i would be mad when i would be founder ^^
the revenue is payed by WIN / lose not by income ( i cant describe that very good in english ) ... but IGP dont spend all that money for MW:O .. well who cares ?


again they wana sell something ? they wana have success ? so far for me.. as customer... they fail badly.. and if one of my customer telling another future customer :" you must be patient" .. i would rip my employee into 20 pieces ^^.

customer = king
update + advertising + holiday = mess

sort it out... some ppl have high standards some have very low... or they are just blind PGI/IGP fanbois ( because you cant be MW fanboi if you think like that... if this fails we wont see any other MW pc-game.. just consider how long we had to wait for this here ^^ )



pro post.. serious...lmao... harsh... idiots will track you down to their lvl and beat you with their xp ^^

ima outa here.. i did say what i thought and its my pov... sure there are other opinions... and so on..

lets just hope we can still argue about this in 2 years when were crushing still mechs ^^

Still no evidence to back up your claims, still talking out of your ***, and If you do leave that leaves me with one less wild assumer trying to drag the conversation down. buh bye now don't let the door hit you.

[Dakkath]

Please stay on topic, and refrain from attacking each other....

That is all... carry on.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Agent of Change, on 04 January 2013 - 01:56 PM, said:

That's fair when you explain it I see what you are saying, I don't necessarily agree that PGI is communicating badly but I suppose that is a matter of what your threshold for acceptable communication is. To me the important part is that we all only see our little part of it and how things affect us, we do not see the bigger picture and for the time being I'm inclined to give the benefit of the doubt to the people who have the best opportunity to see the biggest picture (PGI).

My views are colored a bit by playing many MMO's and online games over the years. And seeing many more fail than succeed. And I've always felt they live and die by being able to communicate their message to the players.

As an example:

I don't care whether people like Capture or not. But if there are a lot of people vocally complaining about it, PGI would do better to come and explain their methodology and give some feedback about it.

What needs to happen, is people who are interested in playing this game need to be doing it based on PGI, not based on a bunch of craziness on the message boards. And it's not being handled well right now.

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 04 January 2013 - 02:04 PM.

[SlXSlXSlX]

I swear I meant for this to be productive. I did check the links some savvy posters put up to said issues, but found alot of those answers vague. From waht I saw ECM is under review, ELO seems to be the answer for everything. That still leaves so much unaddressed.

Worst part is, I like ECM as is. I dont even freaking use it, but I think the game is better with it, as it is, than without. That is an opinion. Dakkath, I hope the devs read these forums as diligently as yourself. I wish they would respond as you have. Thank you.

[Red squirrel]

stjobe, on 04 January 2013 - 10:11 AM, said:

Seriously, just go read the Command Chair. Just about everything you mention is already communicated about.

Since the last update on ECM all we had are ~100 threads about ECM and an interview with Paul.
No matter what you think about the ECM issue. It is a hot debate for weeks now - and I think the devs
should somehow comment on this.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Red squirrel, on 04 January 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

Since the last update on ECM all we had are ~100 threads about ECM and an interview with Paul.
No matter what you think about the ECM issue. It is a hot debate for weeks now - and I think the devs
should somehow comment on this.

This ^...exactly.

[Agent of Change]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 04 January 2013 - 02:03 PM, said:

My views are colored a bit by playing many MMO's and online games over the years. And seeing many more fail than succeed. And I've always felt they live and die by being able to communicate their message to the players.

As an example:

I don't care whether people like Capture or not. But if there are a lot of people vocally complaining about it, PGI would do better to come and explain their methodology and give some feedback about it.

What needs to happen, is people who are interested in playing this game need to be doing it based on PGI, not based on a bunch of craziness on the message boards. And it's not being handled well right now.

Thing is this does go back to my previous point, just because people are complaining about it doesn't make it bad. Wait, wait follow my logic here it's basic psychology:

The most active/vocal members of a community are the most likely to make themselves heard (the squeaky wheels) which in our case will simply mean being relatively active on the forum.

Of those the most vocal are going to be one of two types people who primarily satisfied and people who are primarily dissatisfied. The funny thing is the dissatisfied are going to tend to be louder than the satisfied until the dissatisfied hit a nerve... because it is easier to be against something than for it. Now When you are against something and you say so you have an expectation to be addressed, whereas when you are satisfied with something and say so you have no such expectation.

Here comes the complicating factor: John Gabriel's greater internet fuckwad theorem. So the internet has a way of making people more aggressive, more entitled, and more, well, immature than they might otherwise be because there is little to no repercussions from doing so.

So the result is in a general open forum just because something is complained about loud and long doesn't necessarily equal a problem it could simply be indicative of the loudest dissatisfied people screaming into an echo chamber who are then challenged by the satisfied camp making the issues both much louder and well out of proportion than what they migth actually do. There is also an element of putting waaaaayyyy to much importance on what is essentially a glorified way to kill time, fun though it may be.

So it is in that light that all the screaming in the world on a forum means very very little to me in terms of what PGI should be doing unless their metrics and design people (who are seeing the bigger picture) agree with the complaints. It should simply be enough to voice your issue and let it go in a perfect world.. but we don't live in that world.

Oops, forgot my conclusion:

I do agree that PGI does need to address these things when it "appears" there is a problem we also need to give them the time to actually assess the potential issue, weigh it against other things we may not know about, and determine the best course fo action before actually saying something because as we have seen we will crucify them if the do not do what they say. If you want quick feed back on everything the community as a whole has to not act like children whenever we get an update, in part we have forced longer and longer time frames for updates on PGI because of our reactions and how sure they have to be.

Edited by Agent of Change, 04 January 2013 - 02:24 PM.

[Kraven Kor]

SlXSlXSlX, on 04 January 2013 - 02:08 PM, said:

I swear I meant for this to be productive. I did check the links some savvy posters put up to said issues, but found alot of those answers vague. From waht I saw ECM is under review, ELO seems to be the answer for everything. That still leaves so much unaddressed.

Worst part is, I like ECM as is. I dont even freaking use it, but I think the game is better with it, as it is, than without. That is an opinion. Dakkath, I hope the devs read these forums as diligently as yourself. I wish they would respond as you have. Thank you.

You have to understand that your posts kind of touch a nerve, since a lot of times you are - intentionally or not, consciously or not - essentially blaming one group of players for a lot of problems, and proposing ideas that would basically nerf "our gameplay" while favoring "your gameplay."

And then, any evidence some of us use to try and make a counter-argument is dismissed as lies, "gold vision," or completely ignored with you (and others who share your viewpoint) repeating that "we just want to farm PUGs."

As usual, you get out of things what you put into them. Try to not attack those that disagree with you, try to assume the best and not the worst, and I think you will find fewer argumentative, combative responses.

No offense; I mean a lot of your points I actually agree with, to an extent, but your name - in my mind - has become linked with the "Premades are evil and destroying the game" crowd which I don't agree with, any more than I agree with the "Disable PUGs" sentiment.

[SlXSlXSlX]

I wish you could see it from the new players perspective, and I wish I could see it form yours to have a truely unbias opinion. Best we can do is try to empathize. Marking the premades, as per wot, would really REALLY difuse this argument.

@ agent: Presuming most posts are not just alt accnts.... each forum post represents a real person, a potential customer, and if they can bring their friends, a tool for recruitment. I hope PGI is less apt to completely disregard these forums, than yourself.

Do you know how many times, "im frustrated" is answered on here with, then go play something else.. can i have your stuff.... etc.

I try daily to convince wot players to mech up.. I wish it were an easier sell, almsot no one is buying it. Even prior founders... its frustrating. Their reasons are many, but are largely discussed on these forums. There is alot of valuable input here to be found.

Edited by SlXSlXSlX, 04 January 2013 - 02:39 PM.

[Kraven Kor]

SlXSlXSlX, on 04 January 2013 - 02:34 PM, said:

I wish you could see it from the new players perspective, and I wish I could see it form yours to have a truely unbias opinion. Best we can do is try to empathize. Marking the premades, as per wot, would really REALLY difuse this argument.

I do, believe it or not.

But I see it from the perspective of myself as a noob. When I was getting my teeth kicked in in every match on Battlefield by the Clan that owned the server, who already had all the upgraded unlocks and such compared to me with the lowly intro guns and not even a health kit to work up XP with until I unlocked that... I just kept playing and got better.

When I had pirates in EVE ******* (Edit: Really? "b low me" is censored? LOL) up and take everything I owned in game, literally, I kind of freaked out and then read up on the game a bit and learned how to avoid it in the future.

I just have a very different outlook on "being a noob" and I don't have any problems with being matched against organized teams or whatever because I kind of expect to do nothing but die for the first 10 to 20 hours actually playing a new game that has PVP in it. Hell, I still expect to do nothing but die now in Battlefield. I'm terrible at it apparently, but don't take it seriously enough to join a unit. Here, I do.

Edited by Kraven Kor, 04 January 2013 - 02:40 PM.

[Kraven Kor]

SlXSlXSlX, on 04 January 2013 - 02:34 PM, said:

Do you know how many times, "im frustrated" is answered on here with, then go play something else.. can i have your stuff.... etc.

I try daily to convince wot players to mech up.. I wish it were an easier sell, almsot no one is buying it. Even prior founders... its frustrating. Their reasons are many, but are largely discussed on these forums. There is alot of valuable input here to be found.

Well, I agree there more than you know.

The 'learn to play' guys are generally not helping, and I wish the internet was a touchy-feely let-me-help-you love fest. But it isn't, that isn't excusing some people's behavior but it is just the sad truth. For the most part, though, these forums are pretty chill compared to many. Or have at least been improving.

And don't get me started on Tribes. Jesus H. Christ I played the hell out of that game despite the "pug-stomping' that happened on most servers there.

[SlXSlXSlX]

Heres some pretty placid forums: This is where i came from. (You need a wot forum accnt to view it).

Enjoy.

http://forum.worldof...embassy-82/#top