55 replies to this topic

[Stoicblitzer]

Roughneck45, on 04 January 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

Persoanlly, I think you need a bit of speed to use LRMs effectivley if you are pugging, just because positioning is important. Being able to defend yourself to a decent degree is important as well. This is what I run, and think it works awesomely well.

Founders CPLT-C1(F)
Endo Steel, Double Heatsinks, Artemis
XL280 engine
2x LRM20+Artemis
3x Medium Laser
1x TAG
6 tons of LRM ammo
Max armor, 49 on legs

I use sensor range, 360, targeting, and target info gathering.

I try to play an aggressive LRM support with the speed, so fight around the 400m mark a lot, keeping lock and using tag, and knowing when to run away.

That's my exact build & strategy right there!

Edited by Stoicblitzer, 04 January 2013 - 11:25 AM.

[SpiralRazor]

Died off lol??? No, many people are still mastering out there Stalkers.


ECM is as strong as ever...


theres no such thing as "boating".

[Skyfaller]

Pando, on 04 January 2013 - 10:36 AM, said:

STK-5S

4x LRM15
2x ML
2x SL
1x TAG

11x LRM ammo

DHS

XL280, 16 DHS ( i think )

>---Run it in 8's and in pug-stomping. Always a blast.
1k+ damage is the norm ( well for 7 games last night I ran it ).

3 LRM20s do more damage than 4 LRM15s. Having 4 launchers also eats up your ammo faster.

A 4 LRM20 Stalker 3F with 6 medium lasers runs at 174dmg. With an XL 255 engine and full armor. 1080'ish missile ammo. However not having TAG can really prevent some shots so the best build is 5 med lasers 1 tag and 4 LRM20's.

There is an issue with the game code itself however... it seems that any damage past X amount is always 'lost' by default IF the damage comes from the same weapon source.

For example, I hit a target with 3 LRM20's and it takes very heavy damage. Hit it with 4 LRM20's and somehow the target does not take half of the damage the 3 LRM20's do. This is consistent no matter what target mech is receiving the hits...and this is tested on enemy AFK mechs too.

So, due to fail game code, you really should just run 3 LRM20s in a stalker.*

*Note: Im currently testing if 2LRM20s+2 LRM15s have the same damage loss issue... if it does then the damage source would be linked to LRM missile globally...if not then its tied to weapon type specifically (lrm20).

[SkyCake]

AWS-8R
std 290
2x LRM20
2x SRM6
3x ML

3t SRM ammo
5t LRM ammo

artemis... no tag... tag is bads for LRM boats... even artemis is kinda meh.

stay with your group, fire inside 700m, preferably inside 500m... once you are out of LRM ammo, go finish em off with up twin sixes and mlases

[p4g3m4s7r]

AlexWildeagle, on 04 January 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:

I'm assuming you never played anything but MWO, the person was suggesting a balanced build and thats what has always been present in BT/MW. It's only MWO where unbalanced builds like you're use to pop-up constantly. Any support mech always has a few direct fire weps just in case they need to defend themselves.

Lol, clearly you never played MW4 or MW2. Boats of all kinds were very common, but missile boats were far more common. Also, in any team play game, specialization is generally far more valuable to a team than generalization. Your team should be able to develop tactics where someone can help a missile boat who gets surrounded and missile boats should have good enough game sense to not be so far behind that no one can help them when they get stuck in an engagement. If generalization is always good, then I would argue something is fundamentally wrong with the game's teamplay mechanics. Also, generalized builds are the most common builds only in battletech lore. But that's another discussion, and I would prefer to stay on topic.

[SkyCake]

in this game it really does pay to be flexible... you do way more damage long run with a mech that can handle all situations than you do with one trick ponies... 2x LRM20 with SRM and ML is way better than just 4x LRM15, learned that the hard way

[Kraven Kor]

While I agree "LRM Support Platforms" should indeed be viable... and they are to an extent... I still recommend everyone keep 1 or 2 Medium Lasers handy for light mechs that get under your guns, or for when you are out of ammo.

[FrDrake]

I don't understand these builds that are insisting on including srms in the mix. Unless you're restricted by hardpoints/crits then why would you include SRMs and the tons of ammo they require instead of loading up on more LRMs. 4mlas for point defense are enough tons invested in self defense weapons. If you are so bad at LRM boating that people are regularly within 180m of you then work on picking better LRMing spots and bring the extra 500 rounds to unload. I would rather use my LRMs as well on anything from 180-270m out because those are super easy TAGs. So the SRM tons are exclusively for the under 180m defense.

I also don't understand the argument that you bring them for brawling because if you just boated more LRMs you'd be brawling in way fewer situations because everything would be dead. Out of around 100 LRM stalker games i can count on one hand how many I wish I had more short range weapons.

[Skyfaller]

SkyCake, on 04 January 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

in this game it really does pay to be flexible... you do way more damage long run with a mech that can handle all situations than you do with one trick ponies... 2x LRM20 with SRM and ML is way better than just 4x LRM15, learned that the hard way

Sometimes it does sometimes it doesnt. with quad LRMs you can do very heavy damage from range IF you have proper fire discipline. In my case, when something gets close in they face my 5 ML's which is not bad damage per say... but more often than not the LRMs have removed their armor by the time they get close in.

Up close and personal..yeah an SRM-LRM-ML boat will kill me if he gets the jump on me... though again, that is true of any close range mech that gets the jump on me so I prefer to be damn good in the most common scenario...where im 300m+ from them... than to worry about surviving the few times they do get in my face.

[p4g3m4s7r]

Skyfaller, on 04 January 2013 - 11:54 AM, said:

Sometimes it does sometimes it doesnt. with quad LRMs you can do very heavy damage from range IF you have proper fire discipline. In my case, when something gets close in they face my 5 ML's which is not bad damage per say... but more often than not the LRMs have removed their armor by the time they get close in.

Up close and personal..yeah an SRM-LRM-ML boat will kill me if he gets the jump on me... though again, that is true of any close range mech that gets the jump on me so I prefer to be damn good in the most common scenario...where im 300m+ from them... than to worry about surviving the few times they do get in my face.

This is exactly my line of thinking, but my lack of recent play time means I haven't been able to verify this can work with LRMs myself. I feel that greater specialization should require greater skill and better teamwork, but should also yield more interesting play and a more robust team.

Edited by p4g3m4s7r, 04 January 2013 - 12:37 PM.

[Wun]

p4g3m4s7r, on 04 January 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

This is exactly my line of thinking, but my lack of recent play time means I haven't been able to verify this can work with LRMs myself. I feel that greater specialization should require greater skill and better teamwork, but should also yield more interesting play and a more robust team.

Going too far into specialization does not necessarily make a more robust team. If you are specialized to the point of dependence then the enemy only has to kill one mech to effectively neutralize 2.

If you have nothing but LRMs, a single little COM-2D can just stand near you and completely neutralize you without even bothering to slowy kill you with its medium laser and SRMs.

Team play and PuG drops are entirely different things. Going heavy specialized in a PuG situation isn't a good risk IMO.

Edited by Wun, 04 January 2013 - 05:21 PM.

[Skyfaller]

Wun, on 04 January 2013 - 05:15 PM, said:

If you have nothing but LRMs, a single little COM-2D can just stand near you and completely neutralize you without even bothering to slowy kill you with its medium laser and SRMs.

Actually, a Com-2D will **** anything it gets in knife circling range if it has the Holy Lagshield of Antioch and ECM on his mech. I find it FUBAR beyond belief that even in my stalker firing 5 medium lasers at it and HITTING it as I can see on my end and the damn thing just doesnt take damage. Worse even, the instant it actually gets into range of LRMs (moves past 180m) and I can TAG+LOCK it... the LRMs all miss him since he is traveling faster than 100kph. Lagshield netcode of utter fail. The ECM prevents others from locking him and his lagshield also prevents others from hitting him. Heck, Ive seen ravens and commandos circle an entire team of mechs that laser them like crazy for whole minutes and they dont take any damage despite everyone actually SEEING they are hitting these 100kph+ lights.

[Erik Hollister]

While I admit that I probably haven't mastered the "TAG targeting for many seconds in a row to land a salvo on an enemy" trick, I can't say its really worth the effort. By the time I've tagged a mech long enough to lock, fire, and wait for the hot air balloon delivered LRMs to reach the target, the target has already slammed me multiple times with gauss, PPC, medium laser, spitball, clever insult, etc....

If you are pugging, I don't think LRM boating is really viable at this point in the game. Anybody that says they can TAG ecm lights must not have anywhere near the lag I have (100-150 typically). Or they are lieing, whichever comes first. I can't say I've seen any decrease in ECM usage since its onset... maybe I'm just "lucky" though.

Edited by Erik Hollister, 04 January 2013 - 06:26 PM.

[Kraven Kor]

Erik Hollister, on 04 January 2013 - 06:26 PM, said:

While I admit that I probably haven't mastered the "TAG targeting for many seconds in a row to land a salvo on an enemy" trick, I can't say its really worth the effort. By the time I've tagged a mech long enough to lock, fire, and wait for the hot air balloon delivered LRMs to reach the target, the target has already slammed me multiple times with gauss, PPC, medium laser, spitball, clever insult, etc....

If you are pugging, I don't think LRM boating is really viable at this point in the game. Anybody that says they can TAG ecm lights must not have anywhere near the lag I have (100-150 typically). Or they are lieing, whichever comes first. I can't say I've seen any decrease in ECM usage since its onset... maybe I'm just "lucky" though.

I liked this mostly for the "clever insult" line

ECM usage has decreased just a touch, at least in PUGging; it isn't the latest FOTM right now, that being the Stalker

[PANZERBUNNY]

Budor, on 04 January 2013 - 10:27 AM, said:

D-DC, ECM, 3x LRM15, 1x TAG, 1x LL, tons of ammo.

That's a terrible waste of an Atlas. Like, a terrible waste.
An ECM Lrm mech is a waste. It's not like you're being sneaky firing off volleys which give away your exact position, even with ECM giving you null sig.

It's not like you are out in the battle countering other ECm to help other people home in enemies.

Once we get into BV drops or however they plan on restricting it, you'll be seeing Meds playing an increasing role as support.

You need your heavies and assaults doing what they do best, dishing out reliable damage and taking it in return.

Locking down your heavy weights in the rear, ripe for light harassment isn't the brightest of ideas.

Right now meds are sort of "blah", but in the future I think they'll end up growing into their own.

Edited by PANZERBUNNY, 04 January 2013 - 06:43 PM.

[Phoenix423]

Skyfaller, on 04 January 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

Having 4 launchers also eats up your ammo faster.

No offense intended, but...math fail?

3 launchers/salvo x 20 missiles/launcher = 60 missiles/salvo = 4 launchers/salvo x 15 missiles/launcher

[Megahard]

Just run a tag. I just got done with some 4 mans and we had 3 people with tag and two hybrid lrm/bralwers. With ecm you NEED to have tag.

[topgun505]

The curious thing is I see a TON of LRM Boats in 4-man teams but not in 8-man.

[Faldrin]

Stricker F is a good one with 2XLRM 15 2x LRM10 4x Mlaser 1 tag. Single HS is just fine downgrade the engine no upgrades.cheep to build and can get alot of hurt down on target. Trick is hang back a bit but not right at the back and try to only fire if you can see the target.
Only really need 2 weapon groups one for LRM and tag. And one for Mlaser on chain fire for pesky lights to lead for lag shield.

The biggest problem with LRM is players firing when target has lots of cover. That's why always target mech's in open first.
Also don't ever stand on your own EVER!

[Nexus Omega]

I have been running a Stalker 5s with the following

4 medium lasers, Tag
2xLRM 20's 2x LRM 15's
DHS,
2xAMS

It runs good about 65% of Pugs games, but often I run into ECM mech's and its mostly useless sept for stragglers,
partly thanks to Lag, as I have to tag in front of the enemy, but with the cursor in front I can't lock, so have to rely on dumb firing VS ECM mechs, still scarys the crap out of those DDC's when they see 70 LRM's coming their way.

It can Melt a Catapult in 2 volleys, and mess up an assault mechs day,
Have to watch out for for Lights and Fast Mediums,

Basically you have to stick with your Team, and hope theres not to much ECM.

Also LRM's are good for suppression fire,

I wish there was a Direct fire mode, I hate how they jump 45 degrees and miss,