69 replies to this topic

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

Rifter, on 04 January 2013 - 02:41 PM, said:

Some of these premade responses are pretty funny. You guys need to get over yourselves.

The truth behind it was touched on above in post #19 by Elandyll

Pugs dont communcate because they cant, not because they dont want to. Typing is only a option for the first 30 seconds max(less if the lights rush you) so you can lay out all the plans you want but are incapable of adapting to the unfolding battle because you have no way to communicate during battle, typing is not a option while under fire or you will die. Command options are a joke with no way to set waypoints, ping the map, prioritize targets for team, no useful options at all. We dont even have keyboard shortcuts to voice commands.

95% of the times i die in a pug game and think back to what i could have done differently its almost always well gee i wish i had a way to tell them they were flanking right 45 seconds before i died so maybe i wouldn't have gone down trying to stop that 4 mech flanking attack by my self, or similar.

I think once PGI makes it possible to communicate in pug games you will start to see alot more teamwork.



PGI says this is a team game but offers no way for team to effectively communicate its a total joke.

It's not impossible. I do this. I've done it since MW4. If coms go down on a team, I'll be expected to do it for my team.

Again, it's complaining. Hitting chat k, and the letter of target and enter is quick and focuses fire. You can set way points (though the system is a bit rough) and if you are battlecommanding (expecting to) then you play accordingly. I'll run lights that can stay behind or rush back to a group... I don't engage alone (EVER) and if scouting that's all I do... check where they are at, get back to my group, check somewhere else... meanwhile typing and letting the team know.

There are solutions.

Khan DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

Herodes, on 04 January 2013 - 03:16 PM, said:

I am a PUG and will always be.
I am a bad player and most likely will always be.
The game is too fast and too precise for me.

But that does not matter. I do love Mechs and I lilke the game, so I go PUGGING and I can even have some fun.

BUT ... as I said ... the game is difficult. It is fast paced and you need to be very gifted with your brain-hand coordination and awareness of a lot of things. For people like me without FPS experience and the age beginning to show, this can be very challenging.
Which is why keeping formations is difficult as is aiming TAGs and what not. As is getting it that there is a formation from the start. As is coping with ECM, lack of radar and what not.
And then unfortunately the others - meaning my hypothetical targets - are not standing still. They move, they shoot, I shake, I die.
There is no free mind capacity to think about tactics, plans or - god beware - to chat while piloting my shiny Mech. Yet.

So yes, I would like to be able to play like you suggest. But I am not and probably never will be. Sorry.
And this is why I am PUGGING and not bothering with teams. Experienced players are not the environment I favor if I want to have some fun and at least some success here and there.

Now there is alwas the thing about voice com, teamspeak et cetera. Sorry again. I am not a native speaker, I wouldn't get what you're saying, and the whole procedure is a bit too much for the little time I steal here and there for the game.

For unexperienced casual players there is IMHO no other option than PUG. I do wish there was.

So I am a PUG

You can become technically proficient. And there is a way. Get on coms. Jump on the EU or American teamspeak server and get advice from people who play a bit.

You'll be shocked at how much you'll learn about the maps, weapons, tactics for each map (and holy crap have tactics been worked to death for different maps).

Get on coms and find the guys with the DS_ tags. That's my boys and girls. As a unit our mission is to work with new warriors.

Khan DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa

[Kattspya]

Who actually thinks it's a good idea to ask what's the plan and then don't have a suggestion if there is no answer?

I think I've had about one or two successes total when some pithy imbecile asks "What's the plan?" and I respond with "why don't you tell me?" or "suggest one?" So nowadays I just take the ****.

People also never listens to me if I suggest a direction or general strategy so I've limited myself to telling solo slowboats when they are heading away from the blob. Sometimes they listen sometimes they don't but I don't really care anymore.

Edited by Kattspya, 04 January 2013 - 04:17 PM.

[Serapth]

Daisu Saikoro, on 04 January 2013 - 04:12 PM, said:

You can become technically proficient. And there is a way. Get on coms. Jump on the EU or American teamspeak server and get advice from people who play a bit.

You'll be shocked at how much you'll learn about the maps, weapons, tactics for each map (and holy crap have tactics been worked to death for different maps).

Get on coms and find the guys with the DS_ tags. That's my boys and girls. As a unit our mission is to work with new warriors.

Khan DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa

You missed the part where he said he couldn't use teamspeak, eh?

Kattspya, on 04 January 2013 - 04:15 PM, said:

Who actually thinks it's a good idea to ask what's the plan and then don't have a suggestion if there is no answer?

I think I've had about one or two successes total when some pithy imbecile asks "What's the plan?" and I respond with "why don't you tell me?" or "suggest one?" So nowadays I just take the ****.

People also never listens to me if I suggest a direction or general strategy so I've limited myself to telling solo slowboats when they are heading away from the blob. Sometimes they listen sometimes they don't but I don't really care anymore.

Well, me to a certain degree.

Asking "Whats the plan" is the same as saying "Hey... do we have a plan here".

But truth of the matter is, if I am in a hunchback or catapult for example, I should have no place making the plan. Generally that should fall to the ECM Atlas who will be the anchor, otherwise the ECM scout who will be scouting ahead.

I generally will list options... such as river city... "Whats the plan here? D, upper or lower?" This tends to be the most effective system. Truth is, you have a window of about 20 seconds to come to consensus with a bunch of strangers, worse in assault.

[Rifter]

Daisu Saikoro, on 04 January 2013 - 04:06 PM, said:

It's not impossible. I do this. I've done it since MW4. If coms go down on a team, I'll be expected to do it for my team.

Again, it's complaining. Hitting chat k, and the letter of target and enter is quick and focuses fire. You can set way points (though the system is a bit rough) and if you are battlecommanding (expecting to) then you play accordingly. I'll run lights that can stay behind or rush back to a group... I don't engage alone (EVER) and if scouting that's all I do... check where they are at, get back to my group, check somewhere else... meanwhile typing and letting the team know.

There are solutions.

Khan DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa

You are never going to win the argument that voice is not a massive advantage over text communications.

[a rabid chihuahua]

If I'm puggnng I'll always open up with a "what's the plan" as usually I'm running a support mech of some sort. If I'm with my buds we'll devise a plan and try to work it with rest of group. However,not being able to chat with all the team,and not knowing everyone's loadout or setup can be a bit tricky for a rag-tag group to get set-up effectively for the random map you just got dropped in. So asking 1st for any plans isn''t a bad way to start.However on that note,giving someone a min to make a plan on launch and not having the entire team scatter like cockroaches off the bat would also help. Hate coming up with a plan and half your slows got far enough away on the wrong side of the map you have to faceplam* and try to get everyone to regroup ,if they even will.

[Booran]

When compared to other team based games with public players/pugs, mwo sports the overall friendliest and sanest of them all, and I'm dead serious

[Kattspya]

Serapth, on 04 January 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

Well, me to a certain degree.

Asking "Whats the plan" is the same as saying "Hey... do we have a plan here".

But truth of the matter is, if I am in a hunchback or catapult for example, I should have no place making the plan. Generally that should fall to the ECM Atlas who will be the anchor, otherwise the ECM scout who will be scouting ahead.

I generally will list options... such as river city... "Whats the plan here? D, upper or lower?" This tends to be the most effective system. Truth is, you have a window of about 20 seconds to come to consensus with a bunch of strangers, worse in assault.

It irks me disproportionately when someone asks "plan?". The fact that they do ask tells me that they have some sort of experience and should know enough to come up with something but almost none do. It angers me and I can't quite put words on why it does. It's probably the feel of laziness and entitlement it gives off. In a disorganized pug (which is all I play) any sort of plan is better than no plan with obvious exceptions.

[Parappaman]

Asking for a plan is not bad. Not following it is bad. But what's actually worse, is when some guy pretends to have the definitive guide to winning. Seen plenty in conquest, starting with the likes of "3 fast mech go epsi, 4 assaults theta, the rest on kappa". Arguing with them is useless, there are 30 seconds to convince them this is not Unreal Tournament.

Usually, I limit to a simple "stay together" or direction recommendation that most of the times actually changes the way arrows move on the map.

[Kraven Kor]

Kattspya, on 04 January 2013 - 04:49 PM, said:

It irks me disproportionately when someone asks "plan?". The fact that they do ask tells me that they have some sort of experience and should know enough to come up with something but almost none do. It angers me and I can't quite put words on why it does. It's probably the feel of laziness and entitlement it gives off. In a disorganized pug (which is all I play) any sort of plan is better than no plan with obvious exceptions.

Well, half the time, if I do try to offer up a plan, nobody listens, or I even get flamed or whatever.

If I ask, it lets me see who replies with either an idea or some leadership of their own, or if I am free to suggest a plan.

Then I suggest one, if nothing better has been suggested by others.

It is an "ice breaker" more than anything. See who I'm working with

[Sahoj]

I like when people ask 'What's the plan?' in a PUG drop before you even know what mechs are on your team.

[Serapth]

Sahoj, on 04 January 2013 - 05:50 PM, said:

I like when people ask 'What's the plan?' in a PUG drop before you even know what mechs are on your team.

Well this just illustrates how stupid the strategy level is in PuG games. You get ZERO advanced knowledge and have to get things going in about 20 seconds with a bunch of strangers.

[dario03]

What I want to know is why do we get players making sweeping generalizations about Pugs never listening and insulting them for making plans but in nearly 600 games I've yet to see that happen. I play Pug and when someone makes a plan I usually see most of the team follow it and I've never seen someone insult somebody for suggesting a plan. You just have to make a plan thats more than "hey go here" and don't insult the other players. I doubt it works as well as voice comms since you won't get as many updates but it does work.

Sahoj, on 04 January 2013 - 05:50 PM, said:

I like when people ask 'What's the plan?' in a PUG drop before you even know what mechs are on your team.

I was just going to post that. I've been in games and the other players go ok we are going to stay at range and snipe and I'm sitting there with small lasers and srms...

Edited by dario03, 04 January 2013 - 06:09 PM.

[Gemini Bull]

i pug all the time. i ask whats the plan is every game. if i get or dont get an answer, i tell them "im going X way", or "ill guard X area." i main lights so my job is scout and support. i do what i can. thats all we all can do. ive had matches where me and another following me, get behind the other team without ecm, and wreck their plans. most follow those who know what they are doing. but this is just a game and should always have fun regardless.

[JimSuperBleeder]

The only thing I do is pug and I have not had a problem at all.

And if it is a problem, best I can suggest is to...

[TB Freelancer]

Darian DelFord, on 04 January 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

Why is it that PUGS do nothing but complain about Pre Mades and sync drop and everything that is evil about communications. But yet you try to organize them in a match in chat to try to make the team better function and you are ignored, called an *****, a newb and everything else under the sun as they are slowly picked apart?

I just do not understand it, yes the chances of a PUG and a Pre Made 2 4 man sync drop of actually meeting is rare indeed. But they ignore when you try to help the team as a whole and suggest tactics.

I dunno I just feel like typing in Chat to every PUG who dies do to not listening "Idoit!"

Of all the words to spell wrong

Well you can cal them namesas much as you like for not listening to you, but I can't count the times I've seen wannabe generals trying to direct a match. Sending the whole team out to the middle of the lake, taking the tunnels, etc. and pretty much sending noobs to the most strategically idiotic points on the map and them blaming them for sucking.

So when I see someone spouting out advice, I usually assume wannabe general attention ***** who doesn't know one end of a mech from another, as would most people.

Premades aren't doing themselves any favors either. 99% of the time, the only time they announce themselves are to recruit spouting out a web address, give themselves away with smug chatter over open chat heavily implying it or openly taunting the other side, or after they've thoroughly pounded an enemy they might brag spouting out their clan name. I still have a few fingers on my hand out of a thousand matches to use to count the times they've announced themselves and actually included the pugs in their general strategy.

The vast majority of the time, even when asked, they prefer to remain anonymous, hang back and use their teammates as shock troops.

Oh yeah, the only times that premades did announce themselves, they were just random guys who just met on TS3. I've yet to see a single regular group do it.

[mekabuser]

The reason is simple.
Command and communication for pugs is fubar x 1000.

My screen is cluttered with chat. said no one ever.

Chat txt is gone in a hot second. thats horrible for pugs.
The command function is non functional . B4 this game dropped I was imagining the joy of discovering who are great commanders, seeing their stats, vids of how they did what they did etc.
All that has turned out to be pipe dreams bec Command is broken.
Is there even a cue someone takes command? Heres whats wrong with command.
No audio cue someone is in command.
No audio cue orders are received.
No speech prerecorded for commands."Rally in e5" "form up on 3 line" "defend"
Nothing. so.. what do you get.. soldiers behaving like soldiers since time began who are not being led.

Its half the reason premades on coms wipe the floor, there is no infrastructure for pugs to work with .
This is a failing on the devs part, NOT the players. We havent been given anything to work with, and what we have is totally not suitable for the job.
No ways to designate a target.. I mean , you have to imagine ALL the info that can be conveyed via coms and at least TRY to implement some sort of system that the majority of players can use via the game in its stead.

I mean seriously. Imagine there were no mics.. How would you rate the ability to communicate tactics in this game? a 1 out of 10?
NR exacerbates the problem.. There is no time to even respond once the action starts.
At least in a limited respawn you can type something out as your hoofing it back to the battle.

For petes sake, at least have chat stay on screen......

[Serapth]

Not only that, but the game also loses chat every time you switch perspectives after you are dead. The ingame communications are shamefully bad.

Edited by Serapth, 04 January 2013 - 09:50 PM.

[Thirdstar]

Being on comms is orders of magnitude better than trying to chat in the middle of a battle. This cannot be disputed. PUGs never know what's their team makeup is going to be. There's also a fair number of people giving terrible orders.

And every damn time instead of at least sympathizing with the PUG situation we get people pulling out the L2P card and/or asking people to join on TS.

No, I won't join anyone on TS. I'm a casual, I have a family and my playtime is fragmented. I tried doing the TS thing but ended up spending more time waiting for something to happen than actually playing. And I don't have the luxury of so much free time.

[Hamzey]

Okay, i may be new. but i have not had the misfortune of being stomped by a premade.
I usually PUG or 3 man.

It is usually even unless we have a greifer killing team mates early or multiple D/C's due to cbill farming or the load in Bug.

And Elo rating would probably help with match making, or a ranked system for premade groups.

Just IMO

Hamz