52 replies to this topic

[Carrioncrows]

So I thought i would practice up for when the spider came out.

Flex some moves and see exactly "how effective" you could be.



Answer = Not very, NOT VERY BY A LONG SHOT.

Figured I could outrun the other commando - 129 kph in all that. But nope.

Streaks = my death and not a damn thing I could do about it.

Is there even a reason to run a light battle mech if it doesn't come equipped with Missile Slots?

I really hate that it's pointless to take Light mechs unless you have "ECM or Streaks"

I really loved the Spider from Battletech, but in this MWO environment I think it's just going to boil down to another useless mech.

Just like the:
Commando-1B
Commando-3A
Commando-1D
Jenner-D
Jenner-F
Jenner-K
Raven-2X
Raven-4X

*Sigh*

[aelfkins]

Your are forgetting that the Spider is 50% faster and 5 tons heavier than a commando, and is also the largest jump capability of any mech in the Inner Sphere.
Neither of those can you replicate currently.

[Carrioncrows]

No.
No i am not.

The spider goes 129.6 kph

My commando goes 129.2 kph there.

Spider has 112 armor my Commando actually has 176 armor - More than makes up for whatever excess of Internal structure the Spider would gain.

The only thing that's missing of course is the jump jets. But with the current build, Jump jets are a "DETRIMENT" to playing. The weight and the lack of "Thrust" make using jump jets accomplish nothing more than making your mech go in a straight line, a death sentence for a light mech.

If Jump jets ever change so that they have twice the power and 1/2 the fuel so they can navigate obstructions faster then sure it might be a different story. But as it is, jump jets just make you a sitting duck.

Whatever observations that can be gleamed from the video can be applies directly towards the Spider as a direct parallel.

If the observations are off, then they are only off by the most tiniest of margins.

[ChargerIIC]

You are forgetting the armor mulitpler. The TT spider only gets 16 points of armor per ton - the MWO spider will get the standard 32.

Also, it's hard to test if you aren't using those Jump Jets - that's the whole point of the spider design. Did you consider setting up a jenner and leaving the extra tonnage unused?

Also, shouldn't this be in feedback?

Edited by ChargerIIC, 04 January 2013 - 05:40 PM.

[aelfkins]

A stock commando goes 97.2kph
A stock Jenner goes 112.8kph
A stock Spider goes 129.6kph

You're trying to compare fully tweeked mechs to stock mechs.

[Carrioncrows]

In TT the Spider boasted 240m jumping capacity.

Considering the Jenner only jumps 45m in MWO exactly how would you test that?

We could do a direct translation of 120m TT = 45m MWO and the Spider should be able to jump 90m in MWO, but I doubt that will be the case.

And even if it was I don't think you as a light would be interested in going in a straight line for that long.

*shrug*

No I am not comparing tweaked mechs to stock mechs, I am replicating the "STATS"

There is no mech quotient no internal agility, no this mech does this better. All agility is based off of Engine and piloting skills. Having nether with similar set ups means that you can infer similar results.

The Spider possess a STD 210 Engine, I have a STD 200 Engine. Different weight, different engines but the same speed due to calculation.

The only thing different is I am not using jump jets and as I explained above it is impossible to (At this time) to track that, further more as I've stated - Jump jets are a detriment right now.

-----

And at the end of the day how would any of this make a difference if you ran into a commando 2D / Raven -3L with streaks. You would die all the same.

Edited by Carrioncrows, 04 January 2013 - 05:59 PM.

[aelfkins]

Carrioncrows, on 04 January 2013 - 05:51 PM, said:

The Spider possess a STD 210 Engine, I have a STD 200 Engine. Different weight, different engines but the same speed due to calculation.

This source has the Spider with a 240 engine standard
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Spider

[PiemasterXL]

Spier 'Mech, Spider 'Mech! Does whatever a Spider 'Mech does!

[Stingz]

When Netcode is fixed, the Spider will be running at insane speeds due to it's already ridiculous stock speed. [Though the clans have the Fire Moth (162.0 km/h), and has MASC(216.0 km/h)]

They really need to fix Netcode + Jump Jets for the Spider to have value, otherwise it's a terrible Jenner.

Edited by Stingz, 06 January 2013 - 08:17 AM.

[Eleshod]

Carrioncrows, on 04 January 2013 - 04:15 PM, said:

So I thought i would practice up for when the spider came out.

Flex some moves and see exactly "how effective" you could be.



Answer = Not very, NOT VERY BY A LONG SHOT.

Figured I could outrun the other commando - 129 kph in all that. But nope.

Streaks = my death and not a damn thing I could do about it.

Is there even a reason to run a light battle mech if it doesn't come equipped with Missile Slots?

I really hate that it's pointless to take Light mechs unless you have "ECM or Streaks"

I really loved the Spider from Battletech, but in this MWO environment I think it's just going to boil down to another useless mech.

Just like the:
Commando-1B
Commando-3A
Commando-1D
Jenner-D
Jenner-F
Jenner-K
Raven-2X
Raven-4X

*Sigh*

Hm after watching this I think I noticed the flaw. You where trying to play as a tiny-killboat, instead of playing the lightmechs role, scouting. Ran off, spotted a couple targets then spent the rest of your life running through their lines barely scratching armor till you died.

Now the heavies in your lance's have one less swatter for the enemies light mech's when they rush in and start playing hoth landspeeder with your slow mechs.

[XSerjo]

Another video shows us: SSRM must die on lights. No skill, no fun, no heat. Just run behind and press "Fire" - nice!

[MadPanda]

Did I read this thread right, some people are saying that spiders jumpjets are gonna make a difference vs ecm and streaks? My reaction: roflmaololololololololo

[So who took Pilot Name as a name]

To practice for the Spider, I'm afraid we'll have to BE a Spider.. mech, I that is.

I'd say (and hope) the patch that will add them will also come with tweaks on Flamers, MGs, and jumpjets ¦3

[Dirus Nigh]

MadPanda, on 05 January 2013 - 05:58 PM, said:

Did I read this thread right, some people are saying that spiders jumpjets are gonna make a difference vs ecm and streaks? My reaction: roflmaololololololololo

Yeah really. I'm rather dumb founded myself.

I can make a jenner that is a 35 ton spider right now, and add streaks to it. It will get ripped apart by the commando 2D and Raven 3L. Jump jets have very little value. They are only worth using for a quick hop turn and that is it.

If the spider was in game right now it will be almost worthless. Commandos and ravens will rip it apart with streaks. ECM may not directly effect the spider, but it will cut it off from getting LRM support. The spiders only saving grace is that it can mount the largest engine for the light class. It will be able to out run a commando, and raven. If and only if it starts running at over 250m away from those mechs. The jenner D with streaks may not be as fast but just fast enough that it will streak spam a spider to death before it can get away.

Edited by Dirus Nigh, 05 January 2013 - 07:14 PM.

[ICEFANG13]

Unless Jump Jets make you immune to missiles, and do a bunch of other things (almost like in TT, sarcasm), ECM will remain superior quite a bit.

[Wrenchfarm]

I made a Jenner-F to get a little pre-Spider familiarity going, which I think it a much better practice chassis given the importance of jumpjets to the Spider's design. Comparing a Commando to a Spider is just setting yourself up for failure.

I'm gonna say I'm a bigger fan of jumpjets than the rest of you in this thread. I think they can be surprisingly helpful for getting the drop on enemies and getting out of trouble. That said, ECM+streak equipped Lights have absolutely eaten me alive while piloting this thing. I'm not a big fan of piloting lights to begin with, and it is infuriating to see a RVN-3L coming and know exactly how ****** I am. While jumpjets have in fact let me get away from one by flying over a cliff-side or low but long building, there is very little I can do to actually fight them. Streaks are just too potent in light-vs-light combat, and the ECM screening makes it difficult for allies to come to your aid. I also have to still be wary and respectful of LRM boats chipping away at me, while ECM lights get to wander around the battlefield with impunity, not great when you get dragged into a dogfight in open terrain.

I've had significant problems dealing with ECM lights in my Jenner and it makes me worried about overall balance in the game. This is with 6xMLAS too, not sure what a Spider with half the firepower is going to do. Still, I'll be giving one a shot. I want to see if they really make the jumpjets pop and what you can accomplish with them.

I don't hate ECM half as much as some people on the forum, but I do agree that it has made non-ECM lights obsolete. I have no idea why they gave it to the BEST of the Raven and Commado chassis. It would have been an easy balance to make such an incredibly potent tool available in a less robustly armed variant, at least something without the ability to mount streaks.

[Outfoxed]

Was there not a spider that gets an experimental Angel ECM? Just a shame ECM in MWO seems to do way more than what it did on ze table top.

[ICEFANG13]

Wrenchfarm, on 06 January 2013 - 02:30 AM, said:

I made a Jenner-F to get a little pre-Spider familiarity going, which I think it a much better practice chassis given the importance of jumpjets to the Spider's design. Comparing a Commando to a Spider is just setting yourself up for failure.

I'm gonna say I'm a bigger fan of jumpjets than the rest of you in this thread. I think they can be surprisingly helpful for getting the drop on enemies and getting out of trouble. That said, ECM+streak equipped Lights have absolutely eaten me alive while piloting this thing. I'm not a big fan of piloting lights to begin with, and it is infuriating to see a RVN-3L coming and know exactly how ****** I am. While jumpjets have in fact let me get away from one by flying over a cliff-side or low but long building, there is very little I can do to actually fight them. Streaks are just too potent in light-vs-light combat, and the ECM screening makes it difficult for allies to come to your aid. I also have to still be wary and respectful of LRM boats chipping away at me, while ECM lights get to wander around the battlefield with impunity, not great when you get dragged into a dogfight in open terrain.

I've had significant problems dealing with ECM lights in my Jenner and it makes me worried about overall balance in the game. This is with 6xMLAS too, not sure what a Spider with half the firepower is going to do. Still, I'll be giving one a shot. I want to see if they really make the jumpjets pop and what you can accomplish with them.

I don't hate ECM half as much as some people on the forum, but I do agree that it has made non-ECM lights obsolete. I have no idea why they gave it to the BEST of the Raven and Commado chassis. It would have been an easy balance to make such an incredibly potent tool available in a less robustly armed variant, at least something without the ability to mount streaks.

Welcome to light on light, the Jenner-F is the best mech that cannot use ECM in that class. You have to lag shoot, but you can actually kill a Raven in one alpha (its really funny, you can see the wtf reaction bursting forth from the cockpit).

[Stingz]

Vafer, on 06 January 2013 - 03:38 AM, said:

Was there not a spider that gets an experimental Angel ECM? Just a shame ECM in MWO seems to do way more than what it did on ze table top.

SDR-7Kr: WoB-Era mech, will take forever to show up if ever.

[Doc Holliday]

Wrenchfarm, on 06 January 2013 - 02:30 AM, said:

I made a Jenner-F to get a little pre-Spider familiarity going, which I think it a much better practice chassis given the importance of jumpjets to the Spider's design. Comparing a Commando to a Spider is just setting yourself up for failure.

I'm gonna say I'm a bigger fan of jumpjets than the rest of you in this thread. I think they can be surprisingly helpful for getting the drop on enemies and getting out of trouble. That said, ECM+streak equipped Lights have absolutely eaten me alive while piloting this thing. I'm not a big fan of piloting lights to begin with, and it is infuriating to see a RVN-3L coming and know exactly how ****** I am. While jumpjets have in fact let me get away from one by flying over a cliff-side or low but long building, there is very little I can do to actually fight them. Streaks are just too potent in light-vs-light combat, and the ECM screening makes it difficult for allies to come to your aid. I also have to still be wary and respectful of LRM boats chipping away at me, while ECM lights get to wander around the battlefield with impunity, not great when you get dragged into a dogfight in open terrain.

I've had significant problems dealing with ECM lights in my Jenner and it makes me worried about overall balance in the game. This is with 6xMLAS too, not sure what a Spider with half the firepower is going to do. Still, I'll be giving one a shot. I want to see if they really make the jumpjets pop and what you can accomplish with them.

I don't hate ECM half as much as some people on the forum, but I do agree that it has made non-ECM lights obsolete. I have no idea why they gave it to the BEST of the Raven and Commado chassis. It would have been an easy balance to make such an incredibly potent tool available in a less robustly armed variant, at least something without the ability to mount streaks.

All this. Agree completely. I've totally quit playing my jenners because of OP ravens with ECM & streaks. I don't know what the solution is, but something has to change.