22 replies to this topic

[MadSavage]

The proposed BHP (Bloodhound Active Probe) would allow the equipped mech to target/lock ECM-shielded mechs with no side affects, as in, enemy mechs will be able to be targeted normally by the host mech. Other friendly mechs within a 240m radius of the host can also target/lock enemy mechs, however only if the enemy mech is also within the 240m radius and with a delay to target info and locking. Advanced radar attributes given to the host mech - increased sensor range and decreased target-information gathering time - will not be passed on to firendly mechs under any circumstances. BHP will be only available to certain variants of mech, including the HBK-4H, the DRG-5N, the CTF-4X, and the AWS-9M. These variants were chosen due to their inability to boat missiles, and that BHP would give reason to use that particular chassis over other variants. BHP Would weigh two tonnes and use three critical spaces.

- Host mech can target/lock ECM-shrouded mechs normally at increased radar range.

- Friendly mechs can target/lock enemy mechs with a delay if the friendly mech is within 240m of the host mech AND the enemy is within 240m of the host mech.

- BHP gives increased sensor range and decreased target/lock time AT ANY RANGE to the host mech only.

-Available only on HBK 4-H, DRG-5N, CTF-4X, and AWS-9M for balance reasons.

-BHP requires 2 tonnes and 3 slots.

Take it easy

Edited by MadSavage, 07 January 2013 - 06:28 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Depends on if it does so in the TT rules. Oh I know, just save it. Guardian should not even affect SSRMs, and Angel should make them dumbfire when it arrives.

[MadSavage]

GECM currently does affect SSRMs and needs a counter. From what I've heard, AECM has 2x the radius of GECM in the lore, but don't quote me on that.

Edited by MadSavage, 07 January 2013 - 06:11 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

MadSavage, on 07 January 2013 - 06:10 AM, said:

GECM currently does affect SSRMs and needs a counter. From what I've heard, AECM has 2x the radius of GECM in the lore, but don't quote me on that.

it works like 2 ECM not double the range. Current ECM needs to stop doing the work of its Upgrade.

[StalaggtIKE]

Joseph Mallan, on 07 January 2013 - 06:12 AM, said:

it works like 2 ECM not double the range. Current ECM needs to stop doing the work of its Upgrade.

Agreed. I can't even imagine what AECM will do once it gets here. Probably black out all enemy's screens..., whoops don't want to give PGI any ideas.

[kilgor]

Wow, 3058 already, because the Bloodhound Active Probe wasn't introduced until then. I don't quite understand the benefit of decreased lock on time for a 'Mech with no misisles though. Sure, the Bloodhound is supposed to counter Guardian ECM...in 3058, but if a counter to a counter has to be made on a limited number of 'Mechs, then you are still excluding a lot of 'Mechs, which is already a problem with the Guardian ECM. ECM, just needs to be readdressed.

I do like having ECM, because getting destroyed by LRMs wasn't fun, but as it is, it's just not ideal. I'd rather see ECM not only increase lock on time, but require a periodic relock or reduce the range at which you can get a lock. And SSRMs should always require a relock after every fire. And put TAG back to 450M, so people have to think about more than just carrying LRMs.

Edited by kilgor, 07 January 2013 - 06:21 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

[GODzillaGSPB]

I'd say it should diminish the effectivity of ECM, but not counter it. Every mech can carry BAP whilst ECM can only be carried by a few. Allowing BAP to counter ECM by tomorrow would take ECM out of the game by the day after.

The BAP should probably...

- decrease the radious of the ECM bubble
- increase the range in which ECM mechs and those under ECM influence can be targeted (between non-ecm and ecm distance)
- decrease the time to get a missile lock to ECM mechs and those under ECM influence (again between non-ecm and ecm time)

And so on. Plus I think it should be the only chance. The weight of both the ECM and BAP should be changed, too. Both need to be a bit heavier, so it really hurts either speed, armor or weapons loadout. The way it currently is, ECM mechs don't have to suffer that much in neither of those categories. The MWO swiss-army knife...

[MadSavage]

kilgor, on 07 January 2013 - 06:16 AM, said:

I don't quite understand the benefit of decreased lock on time for a 'Mech with no misisles though. Sure, the Bloodhound is supposed to counter Guardian ECM...in 3058, but if a counter to a counter has to be made on a limited number of 'Mechs, then you are still excluding a lot of 'Mechs, which is already a problem with the Guardian ECM.

Three of those mechs are capable of carrying LRMs of some sort. Though the effectiveness is debatable, decreased lock-time comes with decreased targeting time, as is currently seen on the BAP. BHP comes out in 3058, so yes, it could come out when all the advanced IS weapons do around the Clan invasion or a little after. I'm not aware of PGI's release schedule. It is made available on a limited number of mechs so ECM is not completely nullified. 4xLRM20 Stalkers should not be able to carry BHP. They have TAG for that. A limited number of mechs having BHP leads to less spamming in PUGs.

GODzillaGSPB, on 07 January 2013 - 06:19 AM, said:

I'd say it should diminish the effectivity of ECM, but not counter it. Every mech can carry BAP whilst ECM can only be carried by a few. Allowing BAP to counter ECM by tomorrow would take ECM out of the game by the day after.

The BAP should probably...

- decrease the radious of the ECM bubble
- increase the range in which ECM mechs and those under ECM influence can be targeted (between non-ecm and ecm distance)
- decrease the time to get a missile lock to ECM mechs and those under ECM influence (again between non-ecm and ecm time)

And so on. Plus I think it should be the only chance. The weight of both the ECM and BAP should be changed, too. Both need to be a bit heavier, so it really hurts either speed, armor or weapons loadout. The way it currently is, ECM mechs don't have to suffer that much in neither of those categories. The MWO swiss-army knife...

Title says BHP not BAP

Vassago Rain, on 07 January 2013 - 06:17 AM, said:

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

Some cheese with that? lol

[kilgor]

I would just rather not keep seeing having to have a counter to a counter to a counter type of thing. There are quite a few new people that come into this game and don't understand why they can't fire their LRMs or Streak SRMs like they could in other Mechwarrior games.

And with no in game tutorials to help them understand, it becomes very frustrating not just for them, but for the people they end up with in a PUG due to their inexperience.

Edited by kilgor, 07 January 2013 - 06:37 AM.

[MadSavage]

kilgor, on 07 January 2013 - 06:30 AM, said:

I would just rather not keep seeing having to have a counter to a counter to a counter type of thing. There are quite a few new people that come into this game and don't understand why they can't fire their LRMs or Streak SRMs like they could in other Mechwarrior games.

True that. However, there are plenty of games that have a counter-to-a-counter kind of thing going on and they do it very well. There is no real skill involved in conducting informational warfare, so not having a counter-to-a-counter situation is nearly impossible. BHP as I said would not completely counter ECM, only help with the close range aspects of it which annoy most people. ECM would still be effective at long range as a stealth field against the entirety of the enemy team with the exception of one or two individuals.

[Hoshi Toranaga]

The current ECM implementation is bogus, so trying to fix something that is broke by introducing a counter is wrong.

[Apoc1138]

Joseph Mallan, on 07 January 2013 - 06:12 AM, said:

it works like 2 ECM not double the range. Current ECM needs to stop doing the work of its Upgrade.

and SSRM's when locked on still need a chance every 10 seconds of "missing" and therefore not firing and not wasting ammo, and every weapon should have a 10 second cool down, and armour should be halved and
in fact, if the target is going to move behind cover then they should also not fire
and LRM's should also miss wildly on any target not directly visible, regardless of whether you maintain lock or not

and... MWO is not table top so maybe things doing things because other things do things that they didn't in table top could just be ok

Edited by Apoc1138, 07 January 2013 - 06:58 AM.

[Attalward]

I dont think we need another piece of equipment to recounter ecm.
I rather nerf ecm first until it is reasonable.

If you include another item with similar function to counter ecm you make it as necessary to have it as ecm.

I would say make Bap counter ecm only partially. Something like affecting a bit the ranges. And of course nerf the ecm eliminating functionality from it so it is not that powerful.

[Tice Daurus]

Nope. Don't add it until 3058. BHP doesn't come in until then.

But again, ECM is not built properly to TT rules either.
And again, it doesn't matter if it is or isn't because the DEV's plan on adding Global Sat Scan Module, Mag Scan Module, and Remote Piloted Air Drones to counter ECM down the road, and they were not part of the TT rulebook either.

So just WAIT until they come in so we can test that stuff and see how we can counter ECM LATER...ok?

[Codejack]

I had to vote no, since this would just extend the current ludicrous program of using a new broken system to counter a different broken system.

If anything, just for consistency, the BAP should have all of the features of the BHP (and more), since GECM does everything AECM does, too.

To do it right, though, PGI needs to pull the system entirely before reworking it, otherwise they'll never get over the complaints.

ECM should decrease detection range to 400m, 600m against BAP, counter NARC and Artemis, and increase lock-on time, but only for the mech carrying it.

[FrostPaw]

Don't try to counter broken implementation of ECM, fix the broken implementation of ECM, it's more efficient, better for the game and doesn't simply add another piece of must have equipment.

[Even Dark]

That is not the answer to the ecm problem because in random games you get never that balanced. ecm and BHP players in different teams

the matchmaker put both in 1 team i swear

Edited by Even Dark, 07 January 2013 - 09:44 AM.

[Mister Blastman]

What I find especially hilarious about ECM is that modern day fighter jets (equipped with a targeting pod such as the sniper pod) can target things... visually... from MILES away wtihout ever needing to designate it with radar or any other sensor. It uses image processing techniques via FLIR or optical cameras to establish recognition of a target as that out of the background image.

In MWO, I get jammed with ECM, am 200 meters away from a target, looking straight at it--and... can't target it?

What?

What century is this again?

It's asinine. ECM is just broken in the current state--and I don't boat missiles, either.

You'd think that the mechs would at least have the ability to optically target another mech. ECM isn't jamming photons. If it were, I wouldn't be able to see the mechs!

[Ghogiel]

RETURN OF THE RAIDBOSS