153 replies to this topic

[Vassago Rain]

Here's another important thing. The default armor is terrible. Move pretty much all of it to the front. If anything gets in behind you, you die, anyway.

If you need to save weight, take armor off the legs. You don't need max there.

[Cache]

Athena Pryde, on 13 January 2013 - 11:27 AM, said:

@Cache
Thank you. I'm getting better with it. Is it just me or is the heat meter thing seems to be different for different salvos on different levels snow or desert so its a higher percentage of the heat meter for the same volley on desert and you cool off slower?

It's not just you. Heat dissipation depends on the your environment. Caustic is the hottest map so you will heat up faster and dissipate heat slower. It is even warmer up in the volcano and steam vents there will skyrocket your temp. You can see them with thermal vision turned on. Frozen City is very cold (both maps), River City and Forest Colony are "standard". You can view the ambient temperature of the maps (plus other tips and info) by selecting them here.

[Foxtrot Uniform]

Athena Pryde, on 13 January 2013 - 11:27 AM, said:

@Foxtrot Uniform
I thought table top
large lasers were 8 heat for 8 damage
medium laser 3 heat for 5 damage
So
2 large lasers is 16 heat for 20 damage
4 mediums is 12 heat for 20 damage

MWO it seems that the 4 mediums make slightly more heat then the 2 large.

No, you're right it is 3 heat for mediums, been to long since I last played TT, was thinking ER mediums I guess. So yes, that would then be another example of PGI's version being off. It's the one thing i'll never fully understand why they changed it, or why they're so hard against heat neutral builds(hence the nerfing of DHS's)

[Vassago Rain]

Foxtrot Uniform, on 13 January 2013 - 12:25 PM, said:

No, you're right it is 3 heat for mediums, been to long since I last played TT, was thinking ER mediums I guess. So yes, that would then be another example of PGI's version being off. It's the one thing i'll never fully understand why they changed it, or why they're so hard against heat neutral builds(hence the nerfing of DHS's)

Because medium lasers are seriously OP with the tabletop stats-

[Foxtrot Uniform]

Vassago Rain, on 13 January 2013 - 12:26 PM, said:

Because medium lasers are seriously OP with the tabletop stats-

and the current SRM6 A1's aren't? Please, this is a problem with our current maps being to small and having to much cover, then a fault of a TT weapon's heat/damage values. If you boated SRM's or Mediums in TT rules you'd probably end up dead in most games except a city fight.

[Vassago Rain]

Foxtrot Uniform, on 13 January 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

and the current SRM6 A1's aren't? Please, this is a problem with our current maps being to small and having to much cover, then a fault of a TT weapon's heat/damage values. If you boated SRM's or Mediums in TT rules you'd probably end up dead in most games except a city fight.

You don't understand how dangerous pinpoint precision damage for no cost in heat actually is in a shooter, or how few ***** I give about the tabletop and canon when MWO is brought up.

A shotgun that does a lot of damage but can only be fired twice before you overheat is very different to dealing out 30+ damage to whatever part of the mech you like, whenever you like, at a generous range.

[Heeden]

Vassago Rain, on 13 January 2013 - 12:48 PM, said:

You don't understand how dangerous pinpoint precision damage for no cost in heat actually is in a shooter, or how few ***** I give about the tabletop and canon when MWO is brought up.

A shotgun that does a lot of damage but can only be fired twice before you overheat is very different to dealing out 30+ damage to whatever part of the mech you like, whenever you like, at a generous range.

What weapon are you talking about here? Dealing 30 damage with MLas would generate 24 heat, only 3 heat less than LPLas and about the same as LLas with the larger weapons having a range advantage.

[Vassago Rain]

Heeden, on 13 January 2013 - 01:12 PM, said:

What weapon are you talking about here? Dealing 30 damage with MLas would generate 24 heat, only 3 heat less than LPLas and about the same as LLas with the larger weapons having a range advantage.

In tabletop, medium lasers generate less heat than they do in MWO, and heatsinkboating isn't as important. You can take a lot of sinks and mediums for, say, 12 tons, for a vastly superior damage output to any other energy weapon.

So the heat was raised slightly, and then they still had to boost damage on large lasers.

[Foxtrot Uniform]

Vassago Rain, on 13 January 2013 - 12:48 PM, said:

You don't understand how dangerous pinpoint precision damage for no cost in heat actually is in a shooter, or how few ***** I give about the tabletop and canon when MWO is brought up.

A shotgun that does a lot of damage but can only be fired twice before you overheat is very different to dealing out 30+ damage to whatever part of the mech you like, whenever you like, at a generous range.

That pinpoint accuracy is another part of the problem, TT didn't have pinpoint accuracy, a lot of shooters also don't have pinpoint accuracy, especially when moving, you have to stop, go prone, crouch, aim down the sights, etc, to improve your accuracy. We'd be better served with a crosshair that got bigger(opens up) and becomes less accurate the faster you're moving and the rougher the terrain. Then things like going high on the heat scale(if we had a proper one) would mean something as well, since the accuracy hits from overheating could be applied to those crosshairs as well. This would also give more meaning to potential future tech's like targeting computers. Instead what we have now is perfect accuracy all the time, regardless of movement with the only factor being the person controling the mouse. This is again another issue with PGI going against TT rules(heck, even normal FPS rules) and it's causing a lot of the imbalance issues we currently see.

[Vassago Rain]

Foxtrot Uniform, on 13 January 2013 - 01:22 PM, said:

That pinpoint accuracy is another part of the problem, TT didn't have pinpoint accuracy, a lot of shooters also don't have pinpoint accuracy, especially when moving, you have to stop, go prone, crouch, aim down the sights, etc, to improve your accuracy. We'd be better served with a crosshair that got bigger(opens up) and becomes less accurate the faster you're moving and the rougher the terrain. Then things like going high on the heat scale(if we had a proper one) would mean something as well, since the accuracy hits from overheating could be applied to those crosshairs as well. This would also give more meaning to potential future tech's like targeting computers. Instead what we have now is perfect accuracy all the time, regardless of movement with the only factor being the person controling the mouse. This is again another issue with PGI going against TT rules(heck, even normal FPS rules) and it's causing a lot of the imbalance issues we currently see.

Every shooter I play has pinpoint accuracy. It's called 'aiming down the sight' today, and sometimes you get various laser sights for extreme pinpoint accuracy, like you pointed out.

There's no problem with this.

[Scrad]

Vassago Rain, on 13 January 2013 - 12:16 PM, said:

If you need to save weight, take armor off the legs. You don't need max there.

Yes please I like popping some lasers into a stalkers legs and watching the armor readout go dark orange on the first salvo, it means a legging is up for grabs.

For the OP

You are not going to get the versatility of any clan tech for a while, the mechs are generally slower hotter and have less firepower at this time.

Support from team mates is king in this game and you will run into packs of mechs hunting down and focus firing a specific target this is done using anything from lights to assaults by me and the guys I normally team with and is highly effective. Point of Fire (the correct battletech term ) works wonders at destroying a mech quickly.

Trial mechs are usually rotated with each patch which is Tuesday and pretty much weekly unless stated otherwise and next week I would expect to see a spider variant in there as it's the new light on the market.

ECM mechs at the moment will be an unholy terror for you but ecm is still being fairly new and I would expect to see more changes to the way it works.

Not all of the weapons and tech has the exact stats as tabletop and Lasers especially do not work in the same way as any other mechwarrior game I have played in that the damage from one is spread from the start of the beam to the end of the beam so to get the whole damage you need to keep the whole beam on your target.

I would not say that it is a steep learning curve but more of a learning cliff and I have seen a couple of people I know just not be able to handle it and leave much to their loss.

Keep at it things will get better and I am told that the game has recently been in a European gaming magazine so new players should hopefully start arriving

[Foxtrot Uniform]

Vassago Rain, on 13 January 2013 - 01:25 PM, said:

Every shooter I play has pinpoint accuracy. It's called 'aiming down the sight' today, and sometimes you get various laser sights for extreme pinpoint accuracy, like you pointed out.

There's no problem with this.

except we're getting pinpoint accuracy without aiming down the sights and running at a full sprint, which would stop a person from aiming down the site in a normal FPS or force him to stop sprinting, and hip firing is affected by movement and things like laser sights, again something we do not have. Pinpoint all the time is bad for the game.

[Vassago Rain]

Foxtrot Uniform, on 13 January 2013 - 01:32 PM, said:

except we're getting pinpoint accuracy without aiming down the sights and running at a full sprint, which would stop a person from aiming down the site in a normal FPS or force him to stop sprinting, and hip firing is affected by movement and things like laser sights, again something we do not have. Pinpoint all the time is bad for the game.

It's a tank game, and comparable to counter-strike. Weapons have a set spread that's always there. I don't need artemis to land my SRMs on you, as long as the distance counter is working properly.

Pinpoint is how the shooter genre started. Respect your elders in quake, half-life, doom, and unreal. Modern shooters are lame.

[Foxtrot Uniform]

and TT trumps those in age and last I checked we're still playing mechwarrior.. so sorry, your elder shooters bit doesn't fly

[Vassago Rain]

Foxtrot Uniform, on 13 January 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:

and TT trumps those in age and last I checked we're still playing mechwarrior.. so sorry, your elder shooters bit doesn't fly

I'm not playing TT, but a shooter game on my PC. I want it to play like a good one, not a brown and bloom one that was made as a cash-in, even if it means I have to fight the devs themselves on silly decisions on the forum.

[Heeden]

Vassago Rain, on 13 January 2013 - 01:17 PM, said:

In tabletop, medium lasers generate less heat than they do in MWO, and heatsinkboating isn't as important. You can take a lot of sinks and mediums for, say, 12 tons, for a vastly superior damage output to any other energy weapon.

So the heat was raised slightly, and then they still had to boost damage on large lasers.

My bad, I thought you were referring to the MW:O MLas not the TT.

[Athena Pryde]

Update: Buying my Stalker 3F

Yay after 19 games finally can afford to buy a Stalker 3F
Took out the lrm 10s and put in 10 extra heat sinks (30 total) and uped the armor


I also went to the pilot lab and bought Cool Run and Heat Containment using the XP I earned in the trial Stalker 3F.

Game 20
Video


Results Screen


30 Heatsinks is way better then 20. Even on the desert level.

Probably should have backed up there towards the end.

After this game I put in 4 Streak SRM 2's instead of the SRM6 for light hunting as recommended by Belldandy. I don't really like the spread on SRM6 and lights annoy me.



Game 21
Video


Results Screen


Another game on the Desert level. Heat is much more manageable with 30 heat sinks now.

Streak SRMs are pretty nice when there is no ECM around. Might switch to SRM 4s if ECM is a big problem.

I was doing decent damage until I oopsed and hit the 4 key which was SRMs in the trial Stalker load out but was alpha strike in my new Stalker so I alpha striked overheated and got shot up but at least I killed a mech .


Game 22
Video


Results Screen


Bit off more then I could chew advancing to far and got swarmed but I did good damage and got 5 assists. The ECM is pretty annoying as your allies also disapear from your radar so its easy to over extend.

Game 23
Video


Results Screen


Actually got a kill

Still need to get better at lag shooting lights.

Have to say even just adding 10 heatsinks with minimal change in weapons really made a huge difference in performance.

Now to save up for double heatsinks.

Next up reviews of Trial mechs with videos after having played in them since multiple people requested it.

Some replies to posts now

@Warrax the Chaos Warrior
I'm liking the Stalker once I got more heatsinks and was able to customize it. It is a bit slower then I am used to but has good firepower.

@Vassago Rain
Thank you. It just seems that the same volley on Caustic is like 30% heat while being only 20% heat on the Snow level. Slight exaggeration there but I'll overheat when firing the same volley on Caustic while I still have a little leeway if on Snow level.

I got the heat bonus ones and will get anchor turn next.

I think I will try the short ranged stalker build you have after I save enough for the 300 engine.

Not to keen on your choice of Mech name though.

Are you sure its wise to have only 14 rear armor? A Gaus or AC20 shot in the back will go straight through to your internals.

@Foxtrot
Actually I messed that up its 2 large lasers is 16 heat for 16 damage oops. Not sure exactly how it works here in MWO I can make a video and point out that my 4 Medium Laser volley is a higher percentage heat on the scale then my 2 large laser volley though. Will have to remember to do that.

@Qeysadilla
Sticking with the Stalker 3F for now can't afford another mech.

[Dukarriope]

I just stuffed my Stalkers with medium lasers, SSRM2s and a XL300. Forty single heatsinks round them off. ...Works for me.

[Vassago Rain]

Athena Pryde, on 13 January 2013 - 10:38 PM, said:

Update: Buying my Stalker 3F

Yay after 19 games finally can afford to buy a Stalker 3F
Took out the lrm 10s and put in 10 extra heat sinks (30 total) and uped the armor


I also went to the pilot lab and bought Cool Run and Heat Containment using the XP I earned in the trial Stalker 3F.

Game 20
Video


Results Screen


30 Heatsinks is way better then 20. Even on the desert level.

Probably should have backed up there towards the end.

After this game I put in 4 Streak SRM 2's instead of the SRM6 for light hunting as recommended by Belldandy. I don't really like the spread on SRM6 and lights annoy me.



Game 21
Video


Results Screen


Another game on the Desert level. Heat is much more manageable with 30 heat sinks now.

Streak SRMs are pretty nice when there is no ECM around. Might switch to SRM 4s if ECM is a big problem.

I was doing decent damage until I oopsed and hit the 4 key which was SRMs in the trial Stalker load out but was alpha strike in my new Stalker so I alpha striked overheated and got shot up but at least I killed a mech .


Game 22
Video


Results Screen


Bit off more then I could chew advancing to far and got swarmed but I did good damage and got 5 assists. The ECM is pretty annoying as your allies also disapear from your radar so its easy to over extend.

Game 23
Video


Results Screen


Actually got a kill

Still need to get better at lag shooting lights.

Have to say even just adding 10 heatsinks with minimal change in weapons really made a huge difference in performance.

Now to save up for double heatsinks.

Next up reviews of Trial mechs with videos after having played in them since multiple people requested it.

Some replies to posts now

@Warrax the Chaos Warrior
I'm liking the Stalker once I got more heatsinks and was able to customize it. It is a bit slower then I am used to but has good firepower.

@Vassago Rain
Thank you. It just seems that the same volley on Caustic is like 30% heat while being only 20% heat on the Snow level. Slight exaggeration there but I'll overheat when firing the same volley on Caustic while I still have a little leeway if on Snow level.

I got the heat bonus ones and will get anchor turn next.

I think I will try the short ranged stalker build you have after I save enough for the 300 engine.

Not to keen on your choice of Mech name though.

Are you sure its wise to have only 14 rear armor? A Gaus or AC20 shot in the back will go straight through to your internals.

@Foxtrot
Actually I messed that up its 2 large lasers is 16 heat for 16 damage oops. Not sure exactly how it works here in MWO I can make a video and point out that my 4 Medium Laser volley is a higher percentage heat on the scale then my 2 large laser volley though. Will have to remember to do that.

@Qeysadilla
Sticking with the Stalker 3F for now can't afford another mech.

If anything gets in behind you, you're going to die pretty much always, no matter how much armor you have. I run 8 rear on my hunchbacks and other mediums, simply so they don't poof instantly to gauss rifles.

The stalkers have just enough to take a triple streak salvo/tri medium lasers with minmal internal damage.

[Orzorn]

The only thing that I can tell you when it comes to mechs themselves is to ignore Vass' garbage about Dragons. I can put out 900 damage on a good game with some of my Dragons, and average around 600 damage.

The important thing to remember about mechs is that they have roles. It isn't just about picking a role. Some chassis can't perform some roles very well, if at all. The Hunchback ballistic variants, for instance, are actually pretty bad as brawlers because once you lose that Hunch, you lose most of your firepower. Those variants are best used as hard hitting escort mechs.

Personally, I'd say that with the exception of several Awesome variants and Cicada variants, most mechs are alright, although some more so than others. I wouldn't use the Dragon 5N most of the time, for example, due to its awkward hardpoints, although its clear that the Dragon 1C and Flame are easily some of the more versatile Dragons. Catapults are definitely some of the better mechs in the game for players due to their extreme versatility and durability. At least you picked a Stalker, which is definitely one of the strongest assault mechs you can find yourself in right now, although you'll definitely have some trouble with the speed and low torso twist angles on it.

Most of the rest of what Vass is saying is pretty true, though, such as lagshooting, heat, and other such things. Good advice on many of those fronts.

Edit: After watching Video 20, I noticed that you put your large lasers and SRM 6 in the same groups. I would recommend against that due to the fact that SRMs have flight times, and lasers are instant. Besides that, lasers lasers can be used at a greater distance, so you'd be wasting ammo if such an opportunity presented itself. I saw several times where your SRMs missed while your lasers hit, because the target was moving. That's extra heat and also lost ammunition, so I would suggest you group them as 4 MLas, 2 LLas, 2 SRM6, unless you need to some something specific or what not.

Just a suggestion.

Edited by Orzorn, 13 January 2013 - 11:31 PM.