85 replies to this topic

[J4ckInthebox]

Joseph Mallan, on 08 January 2013 - 10:24 AM, said:

Unless you're making Pie. Then bananas are way better!

Potato pie > banana pie.

srsly, who makes pies with bananas? That thing better be LosTech.

[CDLord HHGD]

Khobai, on 08 January 2013 - 10:22 AM, said:

Yes but no one uses the HBK-4G because it sucks. People who know what theyre doing in Hunchbacks use the HBK-4SP because of dual SRM6s which a Dragon can't mount.

The whole reason the Dragon sucks is because it has awful missile slots and missile weapons are the best weapons.

I use the 4G and do quite well in it tyvm .

[Khobai]

Quote

I use the 4G and do quite well in it tyvm

Theres literally no reason to use a 4G, its a terrible mech. All its weapons are in the hunch so anyone with a brain just shoots your hunch and you lose every weapon except for 1-2 lasers.

[CDLord HHGD]

Khobai, on 08 January 2013 - 10:29 AM, said:

Theres literally no reason to use a 4G, its a terrible mech. All its weapons are in the hunch so anyone with a brain just shoots your hunch and you lose every weapon except for 1-2 lasers.

3 MLs and don't let them shoot your hunch.

[Roland]

Quote

But you cant though. A Hunchback cant even come close to carrying the weapons load of an Atlas. A Dragon on the other hand can carry EXACTLY the same weapon load out of the HBK-4G, and much more.

You are confusing yourself, I think. Consider this...

An Atlas can pack a Hunchback 4G's loadout... but to do so would be silly, because the atlas is much heavier.
A Dragon can pack a Hunchback 4G's loadout... but, again, this is silly, because it's a heavier mech.

The reality is though, the dragon can't actually pack a 4g's loadout, unless you're driving the hero dragon... and, even there, the dragon is basically packing a TINY bit more than the hunchback... So, in exchange for 10 tons, and moving up into the next weight class, you get a tiny bit of extra firepower. Oh, and you get terrible hitboxes.

It's just not a good exchange... the dragon is prettty much a garbage tier mech at this point.

Khobai, on 08 January 2013 - 10:22 AM, said:

Yes but no one uses the HBK-4G because it sucks. People who know what theyre doing in Hunchbacks use the HBK-4SP because of dual SRM6s which a Dragon can't mount.

I think this is kind of naive, because it boils down combat effectiveness into "medium lasers and SRM6's".

I run an AC20 on my hunchback.. and while the 4H could technically be superior to the 4G for this purpose, the differences are fairly trivial when it comes down to actually mounting weapons.

The 4G is one of the most awesomely underrated mechs in the game right now. The idea that they may continue to buff the AC20 even more makes me giggle like a little girl.

Certainly, the 4G is vulnerable to being hunched... but that's just part of playing the mech.

Edited by Roland, 08 January 2013 - 10:32 AM.

[Ursh]

The Flame is better than all the other dragons. It can roast most hbacks as well.

[Sovery_Simple]

The HBK and DRG wasn't overly close to each other until the flame was released. Then we had arm mounted 4LL's with nearly the punch of the 4P, with better range, and the ability to alpha quite a few times until you had to start alternating shots, all while being arm mounted. However, the max turn radius on the two chassis are different.

A DRG cannot twist the torso as much as a hunchback, but with arm mounted lasers it can slightly outdo the hunchbacks torso only twist with it's combined torso+arm twist, and aim up/down more due to the lasers being in the arms. However they split in close range due to being on each side of the mech, and you deal with covergance issues more.

The main thing is the DRGN is better at using an XL engine, has a higher top speed, has a little bit more armor (about 10 on the CT, plus with a better rear armor rating), and can shield the shoulder mounted weapons better than a HBK (the ac20 if you deign to use it.) Wheras the HBK can twist more overall than a DRG, has a smaller CT segment, can generally make do with a standard engine due to lower speed cap, and has the ability to make extensive use of missiles on select variants. The HBK also has the bonus of pulling another mere medium mech into the match.

It all boils down to pilot preference :3
(Though being able to camo up your HBK is pretty bitchin' compared to "I am legion" flame camo being locked in.)

[FerretGR]

Fat Samurai, on 08 January 2013 - 08:50 AM, said:

So the other team doesn't bring another heavy and they are restricted to a medium.

And this is why we need a BV/tonnage based matchmaking to go along with ELO rather than the current "class" based matchmaking. Class based matchmaking is one of the big issdues with the Awesome, for example... how many times have you heard someone say "don't take an Awesome, that gives the other team an Atlas"? How many times have you Awesome pilots thought that? It shouldn't be like that. BV is an EASY THING TO CALCULATE. Slotting pilots and mechs into a game based on BV should be equally simple.

[sarkun]

Can't believe no one mentioned it yet: hunchbacks have significantly better torso twist radius.
Plus they are smaller, and don't give opposing team an IM or K2.

I'm ofc biased towards hunchbacks, but IMO the only Dragon that is similarly good as them is the Flame - for my loadouts/playstyle.

[Sahoj]

I've seen some really staggeringly good hunchback pilots, and groups of hunchbacks in play.

Great medium-class brawlers/Skirmishers, seem to average about 70-80kph. Awesome torso twist (120) vs a Dragon's (90).

I don't like them as Snipers.

They also have a more narrow profile than Dragons at the front with weapons closely grouped - more hunchbacks can effectively fire in a narrow corridor without hitting their allies.

That hunch is hard to protect - and people tend to compound their problems with weapons that require extended full-frontal focus. (Medium/Large lasers. Streak Missiles for locking on). In my opinion - you gotta focus on torso twist and driving these style mechs more than exchanging brute-force fire.

Hunches with solid ballistics/ SRM 4/6's/ Med Pulse Lasers or perhaps a LRM compliment for balance - I wet myself.

Edited by Sahoj, 08 January 2013 - 11:59 AM.

[Vaneshi SnowCrash]

Serapth, on 08 January 2013 - 08:09 AM, said:

I didn't say one was worse than the other in that regard, I simply said the Dragon cant completely emulate the builds you can make with the 4P and 4SP. With the other two Hunch models, I was saying the Dragon can create literally the exact same build... plus plus plus. So when doing apples to apples comparisons, the Dragon spanks the Hunch. With the 4P and 4SP, it is no longer apples to apples.

The same argument can be used for some of the Cataphracts as well, they do a remarkably good impression of a HBK-4G+ but the problem you are encountering is that the game gives you no real reason to drop in the HBK, you aren't trying to screw the most out of a limited drop weight or aim for a specific BV.

[Sahoj]

Strongly strongly considering adding a roster of Hunchies to my mechbays.

I'm a Centurion/Dragon pilot at heart and do use Dragons in my 8man drops.

I do favorably in match ups vs anything same size/smaller than me in either mech.

I struggle against Dragons with my Centurion.

I struggle against Catapults, Atlas and Stalkers with both mechs.

Insufficient data vs Awesomes.

[BatWing]

I am mostly an HBK - 4sp pilot.

First of all somewhere here someone said "compare apple to apple". This is not apple to apple. HBK is Medium DRG is Heavy.

I had to master HBK class to get the most out of my 4SP, however I do not like the HBK with the classic hunch. That will be targeted and once gone your mech is done.

HBK - 4SP has possibly the most balanced structure in the entire game. you have to take him completely apart to suppress its fire power. And also when it has no weapon and is a Stripping pole, you can manage to bring it home alive at values around 10%.

That makes a difference between dead or alive. Not many other mechs have that durability.

Specs:
5 ML, 2 SRM6 A, Std 250 and 90kph

You kill my right side, i shoot you with my left side, still 50% firepower available. Not many mechs can say the same.

I respect DRGs but i don t fear them and i would suggest them to not underestimate my HBK 4SP if you see it around.

[Bluescuba]

Yawn... which mech is better... yawn

The best mech for your style of play is the best mech for you... however that does not mean it is the best or better for other players.

The things I personally like about dragons are:-

No real reason not to run an xl, as your side torso is shielded well by both your arms and ct.

Speed 300 = 89.1, 325 = 96.5, 350 = 103.6 360 =106.7

The dragon is well armoured, especially when you put the majority to the front, as my attacking play style means that i am normally facing my enemies.

The Flames' weapon hard points.

The things I do not like about the dragons.

The weapon hard points on the non Flame variants

The small missle crit hardpoint

The inability to mount an ac20 or dual uac5 in the arm and only a single hardpoint in the Flames' torso.

A fast Dragon can solo any mech... from a commando to an atlas

[somedood]

Khobai, on 08 January 2013 - 10:29 AM, said:

Theres literally no reason to use a 4G, its a terrible mech. All its weapons are in the hunch so anyone with a brain just shoots your hunch and you lose every weapon except for 1-2 lasers.

I prefer the 4G to the SP and 4SP. 3 MLas, and since it's fast it torso twists well to put more damage on the non-hunch side and it has pinpoint damage as opposed to the SRMs on the 4SP. The hunch being high on the shoulder on just one side makes it not only easy to pop up quickly over hills to take shots, but just uncover a tiny bit of the right side to fire when around tall cover like buildings.

Both variants have their strengths, but I don't agree that the 4G is terrible at all.

Edited by somedood, 08 January 2013 - 12:39 PM.

[Karl Split]

Glad you like the dragon op. Personally i perfer the hunchback, but everyone prefers different mechs

[HC Harlequin]

Ghogiel, on 08 January 2013 - 08:19 AM, said:

correct me if I am wrong, but in all but 8v8, there is a drop weight matching. like you take a dragon, then the MM will try to put a cplt or cata on the other team to even it out.

I know it doesn't work all that great from my experience. But it's supposed to iirc

no. well. yes.. but no. It only matches as long as you always drop with at least 4 assault class mechs per drop. There is no system in place to NOT drop against assault mechs, or not drop against assault and heavy mechs. And to NOT drop against light mechs. Which causes a lot of traditional players a lot of frustration because not only is that NOT canon, it means that you can't have task oriented engagements. Every single drop will always be a toe to toe slogfest meeting engagement.

[Flying Judgement]

i have a dragon slayer dragon N1 its briliant if im lucky enough i can kill an atlas on my own it runs 90 km so its super fast usualy its realy hard to deal with an experienced hunchback pilot they are smaller and mutch harder to hit than a huge clumbsy atlas or dragon wich one is stronger they ar different in many ways humm i sould make a hunch killer build

[Sahoj]

The toughest thing I find about piloting my Dragons is that I can't simply torso twist to avoid a shot to the CT. It's so phallic and erect that opponents still have good odds of hitting my core from the side.

[Dukarriope]

I just got my first Dragon. I like it more than my HBK-4G, if because I can fit an extra medium laser on it and still go 97.2km/h...
And the XL doesn't seem troublesome on a Dragon, because its CT is huge but the STs aren't.

In the first place though, I don't like Hunchbacks because I don't really like the look of them. And they go plain too slow for my taste. And they can equate to an enemy ECM Cicada right now. ...And well, yeah, that massive hunch is prone to getting half your firepower gone in ten seconds...

Edited by Dukarriope, 08 January 2013 - 01:00 PM.