85 replies to this topic

[Volume]

Hunchback has 120 degree torso twist.
Dragon is 90.

Edited by Volume, 08 January 2013 - 01:06 PM.

[PropagandaWar]

Serapth, on 08 January 2013 - 08:09 AM, said:

I didn't say one was worse than the other in that regard, I simply said the Dragon cant completely emulate the builds you can make with the 4P and 4SP. With the other two Hunch models, I was saying the Dragon can create literally the exact same build... plus plus plus. So when doing apples to apples comparisons, the Dragon spanks the Hunch. With the 4P and 4SP, it is no longer apples to apples.

I play them both. However the only Dragon I pilot now is the Flame and thats to emulate the hunchy more than the other way around. Its the only heavy I pilot these days. That being said I have had greater success over time in my Hunchy SP than all the dragon varients. Hot swapping weapons 40-50 fire power and a good heat threshold with a Standard Engine speed of 87.8 to 92 (speed tweek) makes the Hunchy SP a awesome build.

[BatWing]

Sahoj, on 08 January 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

The toughest thing I find about piloting my Dragons is that I can't simply torso twist to avoid a shot to the CT. It's so phallic and erect that opponents still have good odds of hitting my core from the side.

Lolol.. this was the funniest thing I read on this Forum since loooong time !!! hehehahhehe thank you so much!

[Solis Obscuri]

I prefer the HBK, but I'm glad you like your Dragon!

[Khobai]

Quote

3 MLs and don't let them shoot your hunch.

Uh no. When the torso goes the arm goes with it. So you get to keep 2 lasers at most. And if youre keeping your hunch turned away from them, youre not shooting any of your torso ballistics at them... which is the whole point of the 4G. So thats not a solution. A better solution is just not to use a 4G because its awful. The 4SP gives you a more damaging loadout and the weapons are spread out across your mech.

4G = AC/20 + 3 lasers = 35 damage
4SP = SRM6x2 + 4 lasers = 50 damage

And no the Dragon can't mount two SRM6s... so anyone saying a Dragon can have the same loadout as a Hunchback is just wrong. Sure it can have the same loadout as one of the BAD hunchbacks but not the same loadout as one of the GOOD ones. For the Dragon to have decent hardpoints it would either need to be able to equip dual UAC/5s or dual SRM6s and currently no variant of the Dragon can do that. Some of the Dragons like the 5N could also use one less ballistic and one extra energy hardpoint as well.

Edited by Khobai, 08 January 2013 - 02:22 PM.

[CDLord HHGD]

Khobai, on 08 January 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

Uh no. When the torso goes the arm goes with it. So you get to keep 2 lasers at most. And if youre keeping your hunch turned away from them, youre not shooting any of your torso ballistics at them... which is the whole point of the 4G. So thats not a solution. A better solution is just not to use a 4G because its awful. The 4SP gives you a more damaging loadout and the weapons are spread out across your mech.

4G = AC/20 + 3 lasers = 35 damage
4SP = SRM6x2 + 4 lasers = 50 damage

And no Dragon can't mount two SRM6s... so anyone saying a Dragon can have the same loadout as a Hunchback is just wrong. Sure it can have the same loadout as one of the BAD hunchbacks but not the same loadout as one of the GOOD ones.

For the Dragon to be a good mech it would either need to be able to equip dual UAC/5s or dual SRM6s and currently no variant of the Dragon can do that.

What?

My 4G loadout

3x ML
1x AC20 w/3 tons ammo
~87.3 kph

Interesting, what showed up in the quote is not what I see on the post...

Edited by cdlord, 08 January 2013 - 02:19 PM.

[Khobai]

yeah I elucidated more on why the dragon's hardpoints are bad. it has to do with the missile hardpoints and overdependency on ballistics.

[TruePoindexter]

The Hunchback is a solid mech - even the 4G. I have fond memories piloting them back in the days of repair and not everyone having speed tweak. I haven't updated mine for current trends but I don't see why they wouldn't be any more or less competitive if my current Centurions and Dragons are doing well.

[Coralld]

The 4G is still an effective option, however I am running mine with a Gauss and use it as support and shooting over hills and around corners. Never, ever brawl in it unless you have to or you have a friend with you. 4H is also a good brawler, I have killed many SPs in this thing by ripping their arms off because ALL HBK arms are easy to rip off, and most cases you can rip them off before the SP you are duking it out with gets into your shoulder. Even though that SP may get away from me and lives, I really don't care as long as my team wins. I don't mean to sound like I am bagging on the SP, as I have one as well and it is a great mech, but for me, I like running my 4H more, and I find it to have better heat efficiency then my SP, even on Costic.

As for Dragon vs Hunchy, both are good mechs, however, I do not fear Dragons at all as their right arm carries their main firepower and Dragon arms have less armor then a HBKs shoulder.

Edited by Coralld, 08 January 2013 - 02:37 PM.

[Roland]

Quote

4G = AC/20 + 3 lasers = 35 damage
4SP = SRM6x2 + 4 lasers = 50 damage

Yes, but the 4G's damage is all going to go on a single panel.
Even at point blank range, the majority of the SP's damage is going to suffer some spread, purely by virtue of the fact that it's being fired from your left and right sides.

The 4J has better focused damage than the SP, but then you start having issues with being hunched again.

Honestly, the 4G running an AC20 is a suprisingly strong, and consistently underrated mech. 35 Damage to a single panel is some serious pain... Especially against mechs who are foolish enough to stand still, since you're cranking out an alpha strike capable of killing them through their head.

Certainly, it is a different style of play, and I know that most folks would share your opinion here... but I gotta say, I am really a fan of my AC20 hunchy.

Regardless though, when it comes to the question at hand for this actual thread, I think perhaps we are in agreement, that the dragon is a pretty craptacular mech.

[Cato Phoenix]

I prefer the hunchbacks. Awesomely versatile weapons platform, but yes, it does sometimes feel paper-mache.

Dragons have their uses, definitely, I've seen them used very well before.

[Meatsnacks]

Roland, on 08 January 2013 - 10:31 AM, said:

You are confusing yourself, I think. Consider this...

An Atlas can pack a Hunchback 4G's loadout... but to do so would be silly, because the atlas is much heavier.
A Dragon can pack a Hunchback 4G's loadout... but, again, this is silly, because it's a heavier mech.

The reality is though, the dragon can't actually pack a 4g's loadout, unless you're driving the hero dragon... and, even there, the dragon is basically packing a TINY bit more than the hunchback... So, in exchange for 10 tons, and moving up into the next weight class, you get a tiny bit of extra firepower. Oh, and you get terrible hitboxes.

It's just not a good exchange... the dragon is prettty much a garbage tier mech at this point.


I think this is kind of naive, because it boils down combat effectiveness into "medium lasers and SRM6's".

I run an AC20 on my hunchback.. and while the 4H could technically be superior to the 4G for this purpose, the differences are fairly trivial when it comes down to actually mounting weapons.

The 4G is one of the most awesomely underrated mechs in the game right now. The idea that they may continue to buff the AC20 even more makes me giggle like a little girl.

Certainly, the 4G is vulnerable to being hunched... but that's just part of playing the mech.

I've considered what you've said about the dragon, and I've concluded that you're absolutely full of ****.

The Dragon is so, so, so, so, SO GROSSLY underestimated it makes me want to cry. The Dragon is one of the most versatile mechs in the game. I don't even want to type up a gigantic rant paragraph arguing against you. I just want to say that I ******* love my Flame out of my tons of other Mechs (even the Atlas), and I do very, very well in it, considering I go at 106.9 KPH, 45 FP, and have very good Heat Efficiency.

Dragon pilots, you know what I'm talking about. Don't let the reputation of this awesome Mech be tarnished.

Edited by Meatsnacks, 08 January 2013 - 06:57 PM.

[BerryChunks]

Glythe, on 08 January 2013 - 08:02 AM, said:

The dragon is a heavy and the hunchback is a medium. That is a big step up in weight difference.....

That being said unless the HB is really quick it usually ends up toast. The same is true for a dragon but it goes faster and has more punch and armor isn't so fragile (especially in the right shoulder).

Depends on the variant and how you use it. AC/20 Hunchback vs standard Dragon and the dragon will probably get eaten.

Speed isnt supposed to be as insanely useful as it is in this game. An Awesome 9M with largest possible engine can turn completely 180 degrees in less than a second, which makes no sense.

Edited by BerryChunks, 08 January 2013 - 05:19 PM.

[Dukarriope]

I've run quite a few rounds around Hunchbacks packing large ballistics or 4SPs in my new 1C. I'm not a single bit afraid of the things since I find myself more manueverable and can keep the ballistic arm on target more than the torso. Plus, the gun arm is actually a fairly tricky target due to its profile and way you can keep waving it about.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Khobai, on 08 January 2013 - 10:29 AM, said:

Theres literally no reason to use a 4G, its a terrible mech. All its weapons are in the hunch so anyone with a brain just shoots your hunch and you lose every weapon except for 1-2 lasers.

For skilled pilots 4G is great. Most people don't have the skill to aim there AC 20 for a damn on the move.

Edited by SirSmokes, 08 January 2013 - 05:46 PM.

[BerryChunks]

SirSmokes, on 08 January 2013 - 05:45 PM, said:

For skilled pilots 4G is great. Most people don't have the skill to aim there AC 20 for a damn on the move.

Going 2/3rd max speed or slower instead AFAFP can help too.

[Das Wudone]

the advantage in using a hunchy is that u match up with another medium. if u went in a dragon u have a chance of facing a/an:
AC20 cat, gausscat, streakcat, srm cat, gaussphract, 3 uac5 phract, etc... a lot of those u wouldnt want to face in a brawl especially with the dragons super huge CT.

[Roadbuster]

I like the Dragon, but it's a horrible mech compared to everything in a similar weight class.
The Hunchback and Centurion can run at the same speed while having equal or even better hardpoints.
The Catapult and Cataphract can also go very fast while carrying more or heavier weapons and the ability to equip JJ for some variants.

I think the things that make the Dragon so weak are the problems with the strange projectile trajectory or arm mounted ballistics compared to torso mounted ones and the, compared to other heavy and medium mechs, still relative low speed with a similar engine.
I guess that's the reason why there's so many "Flame" Dragons running around. Torso mounted AC and energy weapons in both arms.

I've tried alot of loadouts with the Dragons 1C, 1N and 5N but can't seem to get close to the performance of my Centurions, Hunchbacks, Catapults and Cataphracts.

[Novawrecker]

Khobai, on 08 January 2013 - 10:22 AM, said:

The whole reason the Dragon sucks is because it has awful missile slots and missile weapons are the best weapons.

Every Gauss/AC20 toting mech out there completely disagrees with you. Added fact: ECM'ers completely laugh at your statement.

Dragon is not well known for it's missle arraingment. It is more known for it's flexibility, diversity, and speed. To say a dragon sucks solely based on it's missle slots means you've either never piloted one, or couldn't handle piloting one.

[Roadbuster]

J4ckInthebox, on 08 January 2013 - 09:15 AM, said:

Yes, potatoes are definitely better than bananas in almost every way.

Sry, couldn't resist:
Minions Banana Song