87 replies to this topic

[Rakashan]

Kataris, on 09 January 2013 - 08:04 AM, said:

I have a feeling people underestimate stereoscopic as they have not tried it in an environment where you get 60fps to each eye

I have a feeling that people who like stereoscopic vision devices don't understand stereopsis deficiency. I didn't vote and don't care because I have a couple of eye problems which result in the inability to use current 3D technology without developing a blinding headache. I dunno if it's my astigmatism, a weak eye or just a case where my eyes are not the right width apart but given that I've heard claims that something like 45% of adults can't use current 3D viewing tech without getting a headache I know I am not alone. Now, I have not used any of the Frennel-based devices so that might be an option (although I believe it is based on dual off-set images which is the root of the problem for the current tech for most people)... All the same, I don't go looking for migraines by choice... Thanks.

Note, I am not saying that support should not be in either but I will be sad if support for Oculus is deemed more important that other features (like better netcode, say).

Edited by Rakashan, 09 January 2013 - 12:23 PM.

[KuruptU4Fun]

Odds are Zaptruder here is vying to become a commissioned salesman for these things. But realizes that unless companies like IGP/PGI get behind it he'll have no chance to get that sales gig. But what Zaptruder here doesn't realize is that small companies like this one will not help to get things like Oculus Rift made unless it has the backing of hundreds if not thousands of them. LARGE GAME COMPANIES AND DISTRIBUTORS WILL. So don't go away mad, just go away.

Edited by KuruptU4Fun, 09 January 2013 - 12:21 PM.

[Solis Obscuri]

My pilot needs bike shorts and a beard.

[Booran]

I answered the poll without regards to the current state of the game. I really really mean "yes", but that is not "yes, RIGHT NOW RAAUGH", it should have rift, when it's released and when it's good (and when mwo is ready for it).
Devs have talked about support for track ir, so rift shouldn't be so far off that chart (but that is coming from someone with no knowledge in engineering or how these things work)

[Skyscream Sapphire]

Roland, on 09 January 2013 - 11:11 AM, said:

Err.. yes I do.

No, you don't. If you did, you would understand that the challenges to implementing Oculus Rift are IDENTICAL to those of implementing products that already exist and are in use. If they started down this path, we could use those products TODAY.

Rakashan, on 09 January 2013 - 12:20 PM, said:

I have a feeling that people who like stereoscopic vision devices don't understand stereopsis deficiency.

I feel bad for you, from personal experience I know eye problems are no joke. Like I said I wish everyone would have the chance to experience it. However, we can't go around designing everything in life to work for everyone's deficiencies, whatever they may be (extreme example: think how unfair using a mouse to aim must be for someone that has trouble controlling the steadiness of their hands...should we eliminate mouse control for their benefit?). Also keep in mind this is an optional immersion enhancement, not a requirement.

Roland, on 09 January 2013 - 11:11 AM, said:

Note, I am not saying that support should not be in either but I will be sad if support for Oculus is deemed more important that other features (like better netcode, say).

I don't think a single person has said or would say it should implemented before fixing the netcode. While I'm sure these are done by different programmers, I understand your point; there are certainly higher priorities. That was not was the question in the poll, though, so it sounds like we agree.

[Irvine]

After the netcode+ECM is 100% fixed maybe. Joysick and gamepad(XBOX?) support would bring in more players than that thing

[Raalic]

MWO is exactly the kind of game that works best with Rift, and it would possibly single-handedly turn MWO into exactly the immersive MechWarrior experience that much of the community has craved for decades.

[Red squirrel]

Aurien Titus, on 09 January 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

Or how about the fact that the Oculus Rift isn't a retail product. It's for people looking to help solve VR issues and developers wanting to work on it. It's not a consumer product. It's a work in progress.

Edit: Once again John Carmack talking about it

Tl;dl

(Too long didn't listen)

[Roland]

Skyscream Sapphire, on 09 January 2013 - 01:46 PM, said:

No, you don't. If you did, you would understand that the challenges to implementing Oculus Rift are IDENTICAL to those of implementing products that already exist and are in use. If they started down this path, we could use those products TODAY.

Dude, when I say "The OC does not exist" I'm not saying, "That is technically impossible to do!"

I'm saying that it does not exist. You cannot go out and buy one. Zero people are currently users of it.

They have had the component technology for ages. But no one has ever been able to commercially market it successfully in a productized form.

This doesn't mean it's impossible to do so... but the fact remains that the OC is not yet that thing. It does not exist.

Until it actually exists as something that someone can buy, then it's silly to say that any game should support it.

[Taizan]

Personally I'd already be happy with TrackIR support which is a proven product that works fine with several other games and an API that is well documented. OR is a very nice product but still in a prototyping phase and i've become wary of all those different VR headsets that came out in the past - none ever made as a mainstream product, maybe with the Rift it will be different but until then I don't see any reason to move forward with it.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Obviously you folks haven't done a google search for VR, or you did, seen what's there and didn't mention it, totally understandable.

Real simple, the tech, it's been around for DECADES, this ain't new boys and girls, it's been around for a long time and it's been touted as THE next step in computer gaming(among many other things) for a few decades now. And...we're still waiting...and waiting...and waiting...

Why are we still waiting? Well..part of it is the tech side, it's just not up to doing VR for jack right now, the video on this thread even mentions one of the biggest problems right now, latency, which the OR spokesman tried to play off as being a 'monitor' issue..pssst, he's full of ****, it's not the monitor, it's the VR hardware, it simply can not respond fast enough to movement and is ALWAYS lagging behind you..so you have to stop, let it catch up, then as soon as you move..it's behind you again. One of the folks over at Valve talked about this recently, http://www.pcgamer.c...hi-maru-moment/ , it's not exactly an insider secret or anything.

The other part problem is..cost. Go check the price of the currently availible VR headsets here, http://www.vrealities.com/ . Now, I don't know about you, but I'm not exactly real hot on shelling out 1.5k-1.8k US dollars for something that has really low resolution, a very small FoV, and doesn't really work quite as advertised because no one actually designs their software to work with it. This stuff isn't being used by the general population, it's used by schools and government agencies, because they can write off the costs associated with them and they have specialized software created just for use with the hardware. I've checked my games, not a single one lists VR2000 as a supported piece of hardware, BF1942, Vietnam, 2, 2142 and 3, got CoD games on the XBox(it works with consoles and TVs btw) not supported, none of my other games like WoW, DDO, NWN, NWN2, SW:ToR..not a single one supports this hardware.

Oh, and on top of all that, I couldn't use the damn things because I wear glasses. At least my nVidia 3D glasses fit over my glasses without any issues.

Edited by Kristov Kerensky, 09 January 2013 - 04:12 PM.

[GalaxyBluestar]

this is just ridiculous we have a game struggling with hit detection netcode and server/lag issues and you want to talk about support for some crazy uber expensive 3d galsses??? for a F2Play game!?!?!? wait 3 years when we have all the content and a stable plateform before we talk about support for simulator pods and 3d glasses.

yes we can have it and it can happen but just hold the dreams until we can actually play the game without the myriad of problems it has now.

star citizen on cryengine 3 has confirmed it will support the rift so it will happen. just wait till we put the horse together before considering what carridge we're gonna have.

still if you want to keep talking then chew over the fact hawken's confirmed supporting it.... are they ahead of MWO??? stir stir stir...

[QuantumButler]

Don't care since I don't have it.

[superteds]

everyone thinks OR is a good idea, but **** me i'd rather have funtioning netcode and the like before they even touch joysticks, and then look at OR.

no-one doesn't want it, just there's more stuff to be done before.

[Balsover]

Roland, on 09 January 2013 - 03:36 PM, said:

Dude, when I say "The OC does not exist" I'm not saying, "That is technically impossible to do!"

I'm saying that it does not exist. You cannot go out and buy one. Zero people are currently users of it.

They have had the component technology for ages. But no one has ever been able to commercially market it successfully in a productized form.

This doesn't mean it's impossible to do so... but the fact remains that the OC is not yet that thing. It does not exist.

Until it actually exists as something that someone can buy, then it's silly to say that any game should support it.

Actually you can go out and buy one. The first version of it ships in March. $300.

[Roland]

Quote

Actually you can go out and buy one. The first version of it ships in March. $300.

Yeah, a developers' kit.
With 640x800 resolution.

Cause, you know what I want? I want to play games at 640x800, on a screen one inch from my eyeballs.

PGI should support this other piece of awesome, widely used hardware.

[malibu43]

I have Track IR and use it extensively in flight sims. I think it would make more sense for TIR or OR to control head movement in the cockpit, rather than torso or arm movement. It's a more natural adaption of the hardware, and, to be honest, trying to aim by moving your head would be a huge hassle. I would say someone trying to do that would be at a disadvantage compared to some with a mouse. I've tried it with Track IR in games that simulate the Apache's gun tracking the pilot's head movement and it's harder than I thought.

If you used it for simulating the mech pilot's head movement (which again is probably the best adaption of the hardware to this game), you could look 180 degrees behind your direction of movment by twisting your torso left and then "looking" further to the left. It could potentially improve situational awareness. However, given that a lot of mech cockpits don't have that great of visibility, I don't know how useful it really would be. Also, the way the HUD works would have to change, since your reticule would not longer be in your field of view. If they added more functionality to the cockpits at some point (clickable buttons/switches, screen for rear view camera), it might be a little more worth while.

In short, it might add some immersion, but from a gameplay perspective I don't think head tracking adds much to this game (flight sims or racing sims are a totally different story). Therefore, I vote no. Lots of other things to fix first.

[TheMadTypist]

I think that right now the Oculus Rift should be the furthest thing from the developers minds. Piranha Games is a small developer without much experience developing this kind of game, and they are already understaffed for what they're attempting to accomplish. Support for the Oculus Rift doesn't just mean the man-hours to implement it, it also means continuous support and as a result, development time spent on the Rift as the game, and the Rift itself, evolves, including hours poured into testing and bughunting for Rift specific issues within the game at every addition.

Add in the fact that this is a free-to-play title, and a majority of people checking out the game won't own a 300 dollar bit of hardware specifically for this game. They'd be spending considerable development time on content that a significant number of players would never see, taking time away from the components that every player would experience. You can already see how they've treated joystick support- and joysticks are a far more common and affordable peripheral than the Rift.

In the end, Piranha games is not the company you want to go to in order to ask about Rift support. It's a small developer that's already taking on a significant task in creating MWO. Remember, as a free to play title, this game will effectively be in continuous development for the entirety of its lifetime, with new content, balance tweaks, and background improvements constantly coming down the pipes to keep the community healthy and mircotransactions flowing. This is already a significant risk for the company, and Rift support on top of that would only increase that risk.

When the technology is more mature, if Piranha Games succeeds and grows, if the rift itself actually ever goes into widespread production beyond a developer kit, then and ONLY then should the development team even think about looking at it, and even then the resources may be better spent in improving the content that every user will experience. I can't see that happening this year, I can't even see that happening in the next three years. Virtual reality headsets may be the future, but look to the big developers who can afford to take risks when asking for this kind of support. The future is likely still a long way away.

Edit: forum weirdness ate half my post and repeated the other. Weird.

Edited by TheMadTypist, 09 January 2013 - 05:40 PM.

[Imperius]

Kataris, on 09 January 2013 - 08:10 AM, said:

I agree there are A LOT of higher priorities.

This isn't about priories just a poll of who would like it! People are so dense. He didn't say yeah this needs to be in before net code and balance is fixed. I voted yes I'd love to use this with razor Artemis and I might build my own cockpit computer desk

Edited by Imperius, 09 January 2013 - 05:45 PM.

[Imperius]

Roland, on 09 January 2013 - 04:55 PM, said:

Yeah, a developers' kit.
With 640x800 resolution.

Cause, you know what I want? I want to play games at 640x800, on a screen one inch from my eyeballs.

PGI should support this other piece of awesome, widely used hardware.

You do know that 4k resolution on an iPhone would be pointless right? I hope? I think anything under 20" with 1080p is also a waste your eye can't even see it