96 replies to this topic

[Accused]

ECM is only broken because the LRM's it is supposed to counteract are also broken. Yet you can't take one out without taking the other out.

[Ukyo Sonoda]

I still say the ECM incarnation they added to the game is broken OP. Even more so in PUG games where a single system can at times negate 40-50tons of weapon payload for an entire team. If it did things like counter the special equipment it lists in the TT while increasing the time needed to acquire a missile lock by a few seconds and reducing the time the lock holds if your cross hair falls off the target due to impact shock of getting hit it would be far more balanced than it is now. I think the general number they used for being able to detect an enemy ecm mech on radar in previous mechwarrior games was around 180m. ECM wasn't used often from my experience online in previous mechwarrior games. It wasnt because it was a waste of space in general. It came down to how players were customizing mechs. Take MW3 as an example the most common thing I remember seeing on there was shadowcats loaded with ER small lasers that ran an average of 150-170kph. Most of these didnt need to worry about LRMs because the travel speed was so great the missile didnt have sharp enough tracking speed to course correct to effectively chase them. SSRM's became popular because most combat gravitated to close range due to this and the game's lag on multiplayer games causing every user essentially to have a different lag spot to shoot.

LRM boats are essentially fire support mechs. Fire support needs to be damaging otherwise it becomes pointless as a tactic. Dangerous and damaging fire support forces people to think in battle in regards to the movement and target priorities. I think it would be interesting if they added the artillery mechs as well eventually that mounted things like Arrow IV's but for those to really be effective we do need bigger maps. Or a more objective focused game mode.

As for pointing out mechs in the BT TT game remember there's boating in that as well. You actually see it really early in the clan invasion with mechs like the Nova Prime and Warhawk Prime. There's others as well. Stone Rhino, Bane, Hunchback IIC, and so on. I think one of the Mad Dog variants actually mounted 6 SSRM 6's.

Or if people insist on keeping it as is then add all the cons of the null signature system they melded into the ECM. It takes 1 additional crit slot in every location but the head. Critical hit to any section of the system or losing a section of your mech breaks it so it no longer works. While the system is turned on it generates additional heat.

[Rushin Roulette]

Even though Caustic has big gigantic flat areas... you should stay away from them as much as possible if you have a Mech which is slower than 100 kph. There are loads of ridges, hills and small rock outcrops whcih you can use to shield yourself from enemy fire. Around the top of the caldera ridge, you even have multiple outcrops you can use to hide an Atlas behind if the LRM fire is getting too much. Park your mech there for a bit and let your opponent come to you if they want to shoot. You have to remember... LRMS can hit you even if you cant see them, but if you are behind cover, anything which wants to shoot you must also come into shot range and view of your own weapons.

Frozen City has loads and loads of buildings you can very easily hide behind... that map was always a hate map for any LRM boat due to the sheer amount of cover.

Forest colony has many, many very obvious ridges around the edges, tall jutting rock outcrops in the water and some parts of the edges and the big beached ship in the middle of the water (just dont go in the water if you are on Forrest colony snow... the ship isnt there to provide cover ).

EDIT: Corrected a few typos

Edited by Rushin Roulette, 11 January 2013 - 04:57 AM.

[Felix]

Accused, on 11 January 2013 - 04:03 AM, said:

ECM is only broken because the LRM's it is supposed to counteract are also broken. Yet you can't take one out without taking the other out.

ECM was thrown in to counteract Streakcats, thus why the dev said when it was released "lookin forward to ruining some streakcats days."

They were just too stupid to make it work properly.

[AimRobot]

Buff antimissle and remove ECM, Antimissle is a defense investment, ECM is as close to free as you can get.
The game should also NOT auto show enemys with red symbols, that should be a part of TAG, every ***** can react to a red symbol popping up, what happend to using your eyes to spot enemys.

[Elfman]

If they had done as they orginally suggested and toned down the impulse from streaks and missiles they could have implemented ECM in a different manner and fixed the SSRM and LRM Boating issues.

Presently a AC/20 has an impulse of 0.10 (which is the biggest baddest rock your world AC)
Streaks each have an impulse of 0.19 (or 0.38 for both hitting you)

Cat streak boat with 6 SSRM launchers was rocking your world every second or less chain firing a wepaon that rocks you twice as much as a AC/20 per missile (and they fire 2) which does not require aiming.

You get the same issue still with 2 ravens chain firing streaks the sheer ammount of rocking and smoke effects on your screen mean it can be hard to se where they are and where they are going to lag shoot them.

As for LRm's there impulse value is 0.4 which is why back in closeed beta missile boats used to chain fire LRM 5's as a lock down due to the sheer amount of rocking they caused.

They need to tone down all missiles impulse values to less than an AC/20 per salvo

[Elkarlo]

For everyone out there telling that LRM were Op, AMS useless etc...

Get yourself a STK-5S or the worst Atlas th AS7-K ( which had been before ECM the best)
And WATCH what 2 AMS do to the LRM a Boat shoots..

Just played mine through. a LRM15 salvo is entirly consumed, a Stalker putts 30 Missles into air at once ( 32 tubes but the SRM6 Tubes are broken down in 5th...) when you are sitting in an AS7-K only 16!!! of the Missles reaches you, so 12 from a whole salvo, when there are two other AMS are around NONE all Missles a STALKER can throw are CONSUMED by only 2 Ton Hardware and some tons of AMMO.

Can PPC fire, Gausfire etc... be consumed? No..

So stop whining and putt AMS again on the Mechs

Atm it is a real happy shooting fest as only 1/4 of all Mech or less have mounted AMS...
get yourself a LRM boat and putt Tag on it and it is happy Turkey shot.
Not because LRM are overpowered but people are Brainless and don't putt AMS on and
walk right into the open. I can even Dumbfire some of the Mechs at 500 Meters...

Edited by Elkarlo, 11 January 2013 - 06:06 AM.

[Even Dark]

missed the answer booth

Edited by Even Dark, 11 January 2013 - 06:02 AM.

[Budor]

ECM is fine. Streaks and lagshield are not.

[12Bravo]

According to Sarna, ECM doesn't do enough in this game, it should also be cloaking the infrared signature of the mechs in it's umbrella.

" Designed to interfere with guided weaponry, targeting computers, and communication systems, the Guardian is typically used to shield allied units from such equipment by emitting a broad-band signal meant to confuse radar, infrared, ultraviolet, magscan and sonar sensors.^["

It also states that only mechs equipped with BAP should be aware they are being jammed...

" A Guardian can jam a Beagle Active Probe (or its Clan equivalent), but the probe-equipped unit will be aware of the jamming."

I think everyone is right, ECM is broken and deffinately needs to be buffed.

Edited by 12Bravo, 11 January 2013 - 06:44 AM.

[Corvus Antaka]

12Bravo, on 11 January 2013 - 06:20 AM, said:

According to Sarna, ECM doesn't do enough in this game, it should also be cloaking the infrared signature of the mechs in it's umbrella.

" Designed to interfere with guided weaponry, targeting computers, and communication systems, the Guardian is typically used to shield allied units from such equipment by emitting a broad-band signal meant to confuse radar, infrared, ultraviolet, magscan and sonar sensors.^["

It also states that only mechs equipped with BAP should be aware they are being jammed...

"  A Guardian can jam a Beagle Active Probe (or its Clan equivalent), but the probe-equipped unit will be aware of the jamming."

I think everyone is right, ECM is broken and deffinately needs to be buffed.

The greatest drawback to the Guardian is its limited range, which extends out to only 180 meters. Which means that outside the 180m, it should not be affected radar or locks!!!

[Kaijin]

12Bravo, on 11 January 2013 - 06:20 AM, said:

According to Sarna, ECM doesn't do enough in this game, it should also be cloaking the infrared signature of the mechs in it's umbrella.

" Designed to interfere with guided weaponry, targeting computers, and communication systems, the Guardian is typically used to shield allied units from such equipment by emitting a broad-band signal meant to confuse radar, infrared, ultraviolet, magscan and sonar sensors.^["

It also states that only mechs equipped with BAP should be aware they are being jammed...

" A Guardian can jam a Beagle Active Probe (or its Clan equivalent), but the probe-equipped unit will be aware of the jamming."

I think everyone is right, ECM is broken and deffinately needs to be buffed.

You get the 'Selective quote of the year' award. As the good Colonel points out, you totally left off the bit about ECM's range being limited to 180 meters.

[Shatterpoint]

It was Stalkers.

[Gabrion]

ECMs are broken. When you have a your targets in visual range and you cannot target them there is a problem. Sure I can use a Tag system but when you have to keep it on the target or it will go invisible again it is not worth it.

[Codejack]

Gabrion, on 11 January 2013 - 10:14 PM, said:

ECMs are broken. When you have a your targets in visual range and you cannot target them there is a problem. Sure I can use a Tag system but when you have to keep it on the target or it will go invisible again it is not worth it.

...and doesn't work inside 180m, which lights have no problem keeping you under.

[Marcus Tanner]

AlexWildeagle, on 10 January 2013 - 06:05 PM, said:

another amusing thread. Which do I like bettter:

1) Standing behind cover watching a sky full of missiles going back and forth, waiting. Watching heavy mechs trying to move from one cover point to another and disintegrating in less then 30 seconds to streams of missiles. Where eventually the winner is whomever has the most missiles. Where "tactics" are sitting there in an LRM boat waiting for an enemy to poke their head out.

Or

2) LRM boats now have to manuever, tag and narc actually have a point. Direct fire weapons are actually useable as mechs can manuever and flank enemy positions. LRMs have a place, but not as mech melters but as their original purpose which was to remove tons of enemy armor softening them up for your frontline mechs. Where "Tactics" now involve manuevering, flanking and cornering your enemy.

If I understand this correctly, you say here that Narc has a point now where it did not before... because of ECM.

Accused, on 11 January 2013 - 04:03 AM, said:

ECM is only broken because the LRM's it is supposed to counteract are also broken. Yet you can't take one out without taking the other out.

Even if there were no streaks or LRMs in this game, I would still take ECM every time. Circumstantially messing up missiles is just gravy.

12Bravo, on 11 January 2013 - 06:20 AM, said:

According to Sarna, ECM doesn't do enough in this game, it should also be cloaking the infrared signature of the mechs in it's umbrella.

" Designed to interfere with guided weaponry, targeting computers, and communication systems, the Guardian is typically used to shield allied units from such equipment by emitting a broad-band signal meant to confuse radar, infrared, ultraviolet, magscan and sonar sensors.^["

Sarna is wrong.

ECM interferes with Narc and Artemis guided weapons, but has no effect on semi-guided LRMs.

ECM can affect basic computers by projecting ghost targets *instead* of its normal disruption function. It has no effect on the piece of equipment called a "targeting computer".

ECM affects C3 systems. Note that the target data sharing we have is not only *not* C3, but we don't even have the basic target data sharing functionality of normal mech computers.

ECM can affect normal sensors, but only when those sensors are used to spot mechs that nobody on your team has line of sight to. If you have LOS to a mech, then their ECM does nothing to disrupt you at all. Since we can't do that anyway, they would need to divert from the tabletop rules for the sensor disruption. The only exception is Beagle, which is only affected by ECM when the Beagle is within 180m. Outside 180m of hostile ECM, Beagle works just fine.

[KKillian]

Why is it all the ECM lights have the absolute most missle hardpoints also? I commented before on streaks not being OP while I was playing my med-heavy-assaults which can easily absorb them with arms but as I move onto my Jenners I have realized there is nothing we can do to avoid center torso streaks whatsoever other then smash them in the face with double srm4's and hope for a crit... the arms are positioned too high to block with, and the best pilot in the damn world cannot possibly avoid them aside from positioning another enemy between yourself and the launcher in hopes of them hitting their teammate.

I retract my previous statement about streak light vs light not being OP, as a Jenner you cannot avoid them. Against larger mechs you can simply keep distance or stay behind but against all the ecm raven/commando streakers its pointless. Unless ECM is made available to all of the light class or streak damage spread and/or cooldown adjusted the Jenner is simply an inferior mech now.

Edited by KKillian, 02 February 2013 - 10:30 AM.