284 replies to this topic

[sicarii]

Aethon, on 24 May 2012 - 10:34 PM, said:

Your opinion, of course. There are many things that could have been done, if one were in Kerensky's shoes. A few examples:

1. He could have stayed, and allowed what was left of the SLDF to be ground down into pulp in a war of attrition. Sure, they'd have slaughtered mass quantities of the house militaries, but to what end?

2. He could have steamrolled one house or another. Again, to what end?

3. He could have, as some people say, split the SLDF up between the houses...and gave them even more potent weapons with which to annihilate one another.

4. He could have removed the most potent fighting force in human history from the equation, which is what he did. He could have kept the most brilliant scientists alive, which he did. He could have kept the core values of the Star League alive, which he did (some of his followers' descendants did not necessarily do so, but he cannot be blamed for their actions).

Long story short, I don't think there was a perfect answer to what he should have done. It may have been brave, gallant, 'right', or whatever, to stay and fight for the glory of the Star League, or that in which they believed...but a good general knows when a battle cannot be won, and preserves his troops to fight another day.

If you want to lay the blame at someone's feet for the collapse of the Star League, fine...go ahead and blame Kerensky. But don't forget to include Stefan Amaris, Jennifer Steiner, Minoru Kurita the 1st, Kenyon Marik, John Davion, and Barbara Liao. Stefan Amaris needs no introduction, and the other five were the ones who pulled out of the Star League, massacred civilians, nuked plantes from orbit, destroyed the technology that the Star League fostered, and began braining one another back to the stone age.

The battletech-nerd strengh runs strong in you my friend. I salute your knowledge. I thought I had ultimate battletech-nerd strength with my 100 or so volumes of battletech lore at my fingertips...yet I now stand here humbled.

Plus I think people hate the Clans simply because they cut though the inner sphere like Barry Sanders...until Tukayyid of course.

[pursang]

Aethon, on 24 May 2012 - 10:34 PM, said:

Your opinion, of course. There are many things that could have been done, if one were in Kerensky's shoes. A few examples:

1. He could have stayed, and allowed what was left of the SLDF to be ground down into pulp in a war of attrition. Sure, they'd have slaughtered mass quantities of the house militaries, but to what end?

2. He could have steamrolled one house or another. Again, to what end?

3. He could have, as some people say, split the SLDF up between the houses...and gave them even more potent weapons with which to annihilate one another.

4. He could have removed the most potent fighting force in human history from the equation, which is what he did. He could have kept the most brilliant scientists alive, which he did. He could have kept the core values of the Star League alive, which he did (some of his followers' descendants did not necessarily do so, but he cannot be blamed for their actions).

Long story short, I don't think there was a perfect answer to what he should have done. It may have been brave, gallant, 'right', or whatever, to stay and fight for the glory of the Star League, or that in which they believed...but a good general knows when a battle cannot be won, and preserves his troops to fight another day.

If you want to lay the blame at someone's feet for the collapse of the Star League, fine...go ahead and blame Kerensky. But don't forget to include Stefan Amaris, Jennifer Steiner, Minoru Kurita the 1st, Kenyon Marik, John Davion, and Barbara Liao. Stefan Amaris needs no introduction, and the other five were the ones who pulled out of the Star League, massacred civilians, nuked plantes from orbit, destroyed the technology that the Star League fostered, and began braining one another back to the stone age.

Or he could have stayed true to his post and worked with the Houses to reforge a newer and better Star League. Instead, he ignored his vows and through his actions (and in-actions) plunged the entire InnerSphere into war.

He was no better then Ahmaris in the end.

Edited by pursang, 24 May 2012 - 10:42 PM.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Well, as we wolves say: "We are Clan Wolf, children of Kerensky. We carry the Honor of his name on our shoulders, as our fathers did before us. The Remembrance speaks to us of the Evil in Man's will, of the reasons for Exodus, and the Rights of the Traveller. Arcadia is our Destiny and our Right. Enlightenment is our Gift. By the Bloodnames of our Founders we must return, return and protect what is unique among the Stars. Terra awaits us as it was written. We are the last of the Wardens, the sole hope for the Earth."

[Mercurial]

FoxiestFox, on 24 May 2012 - 10:39 PM, said:

They started from the remnants of the Star League Defense Force. If I'm not mistaken they invaded to show their power and take Terra, hence the Crusader Clans. I'm probably wrong, but it's my inference.

Not exactly. The 'Wardens' invaded in part because they were saving humanity. The Crusaders did because it was their system, and the Sphere was just screwing it up. (Also somethingsomething genetically superior.)

[William Petersen]

Mostly it boils down to Clan Tech being absurly over-powered and ruining the TT. I strongly suspect that's where the unbridled seething hatred originates. I mean FedRats and Commies Cappies and Snakes don't *like* one another, but the pure hatred that most IS players have for the Clans cannot be derivative of simple 'factional pride/rivalry'.

[FoxiestFox]

Mercurial, on 24 May 2012 - 10:42 PM, said:

Not exactly. The 'Wardens' invaded in part because they were saving humanity. The Crusaders did because it was their system, and the Sphere was just screwing it up. (Also somethingsomething genetically superior.)

I figured I had some misinformation there. I sadly haven't ever been able to read anything lore related other than the wiki so I'm a bit lacking in knowledge, unless you can recommend me some really good books to read. (Please.)

[Logan Pryde]

Haters gonna hate!

[Pale Horseman]

Aethon, on 24 May 2012 - 10:16 PM, said:

Why hate on the Clans? Because it's what all the cool kids do these days.

Hitler agrees. (Near the middle of the video.)

[Rejarial Galatan]

William Petersen, on 24 May 2012 - 10:43 PM, said:

Mostly it boils down to Clan Tech being absurly over-powered and ruining the TT. I strongly suspect that's where the unbridled seething hatred originates. I mean FedRats and Commies Cappies and Snakes don't *like* one another, but the pure hatred that most IS players have for the Clans cannot be derivative of simple 'factional pride/rivalry'.

That or you Trashborns cannot stand the fact we up and obliterated you, until we let you win at Tukayyid.

[Mercurial]

FoxiestFox, on 24 May 2012 - 10:44 PM, said:

I figured I had some misinformation there. I sadly haven't ever been able to read anything lore related other than the wiki so I'm a bit lacking in knowledge, unless you can recommend me some really good books to read. (Please.)

The Blood of Kerensky trilogy is the go-to book series to start on clan lore. It should be available in digital format and/or at bookstores. It all starts, and gets explained there. It also happens to be one of the better Btech book series, which is a bonus.

[Kottonmouth]

The tech. Yeah I'm petty. Kerenksy and his folks bolted with all the good stuff while the IS idiots broke all their toys. Then they come back with ER Lasers and better... everything.

[Aethon]

MortarionX, on 24 May 2012 - 10:38 PM, said:

Wow did not know it was such as sensitive topic. Still quite interesting. So I have read a few MW books and apprently Clanners are genetically engineered. Exactly how did the Clans start and why did the invade the IS?

The Clans started when the Star League collapsed, and General Kerensky led most of his people on an exodus out of the Inner Sphere, toward the core of the galaxy (they went nowhere near the core itself, of course, just so far away that almost no one ever found them).

They invaded the IS because they believed it was their task to return to the IS, conquer Terra, and re-establish the Star League.

It is important to note that, like the IS, the Clans have differing political views and ideals. The two main camps are the Crusaders and the Wardens.

Crusaders generally believe that their job is to conquer the IS, resurrect the Star League, and rule it. The Wardens generally believe that it's their job to protect the people of the Inner Sphere from external threats (in some cases, the Crusader Clans), and from the cruelty of some of the Inner Sphere's rulers.

Also, not all Clans harbor distaste toward the freeborn (non-genetically-bred people). Clan Wolf, when it was a Warden Clan, actually had a Khan who was a freeborn man, born in the Inner Sphere and captured as a bondsman. Some Clans don't even care when people speak in contractions. For the most part, the Crusaders are the hard-core types who dislike the freeborn, chafe when you speak with contractions (they view it as a sort of desecration of the English language, and laziness), etc.

[William Petersen]

Rejarial Galatan, on 24 May 2012 - 10:45 PM, said:

That or you Trashborns cannot stand the fact we up and obliterated you, until we let you win at Tukayyid.

Another B-Tech term you don't seem to understand, trashborn.


EDIT:

Aethon, on 24 May 2012 - 10:46 PM, said:

chafe when you speak with contractions (they view it as a sort of desecration of the English language, and laziness), etc.

This always amused me. Contractions are evil because they're a desecration and laziness. What, pray tell, are "quiaff", "quineg", and "ristar" then? Contractions are evil, but portmanteaus, they're okey, despite the fact that they're the same thing without an apostrophe.

Edited by William Petersen, 24 May 2012 - 10:49 PM.

[WiCkEd]

The Yeti, on 24 May 2012 - 10:31 PM, said:

It has always been said the Children of Korensky will return when the inner sphere need them the most, upon the return, the houses united to fight a common enemy. I have always had a "soft spot" for the clanners and their society, fighting for the honor of the battle. I know it is unfortunate that they have better tech, but when you spend so much time refining the art of battle and not political bickering there is bound to be an advantage to them. I hope to fight in the name of Korensky to unify the IS, and bring back the SLDF.

I'm going to destroy you on the battlefield bro. Mark my name well because I've marked yours. You, my friend, are a dead man.

[Rejarial Galatan]

and the IS wonders why we of clan wolf are your sole hope? you IS freeborns cannot be trusted to handle your stuff, let us get to terra, and we will hold your hands as the ilClan and bring peace to you. shhh now, its all right, Clan Wolf is here.

[Urendhil]

At first sorry for my bad english. I don´t hate clans and clan players but I don´t like people that don´t stop crying around for there clans and clan tech in 3049. Instead of being lucky and excited that we finally get a new MW all they want is to get an OP Omni Mech to be a bad cool kid and blow away everything. What I mean is that most of them give a damn about BT and lore. All they want is a new shooter where they can cheat the sh.. out of to feel great. For me thats the typically clan player! Sorry for all REAL clanners!

We have more than two years before the clans arrive and we should prepare for battle to safe our houses! Lets enjoy this and don´t post every day 20 new threads like "Clan Space ant is recruiting!" or "My Timberwolf will kill you all!". It is a waste of time. :-)

Cheers

Edited by Urendhil, 24 May 2012 - 10:49 PM.

[sicarii]

Didn't Phelan Kell clip some of those Omnis during his first battle with them? Or did his wolfhound get smoked? I don't remember.

[FoxiestFox]

Pale Horseman, on 24 May 2012 - 10:45 PM, said:

Hitler agrees. (Near the middle of the video.)

Hahaha, I love 40K too. Brilliant.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Urendhil, on 24 May 2012 - 10:48 PM, said:

At first sorry for my bad english. I don´t hate clans and clan players but I don´t like people that don´t stop crying around for there clans and clan tech in 3049. Instead of being lucky and excited that we finally get a new MW all they want is to get an OP Omni Mech to be a bad cool kid and blow away everything. What I mean is that most of them give a damn about BT and lore. All they want is a new shooter where they can cheat the sh.. out of to feel great. For me thats the typically clan player! Sorry for all REAL clanners!

We have more than two years before the clans arrive and we should prepare for battle to safe our houses! Lets enjoy this and don´t post every day 20 new threads like "Clan Space ant is recruiting!" or "My Timberwolf will kill you all!". It is a waste of time. :-)

Cheers

no, we do not have 2 years. First hit on the outter periphery in 3 months, then the flood begins in 3050. a year till wave 1.

[FoxiestFox]

Mercurial, on 24 May 2012 - 10:45 PM, said:

The Blood of Kerensky trilogy is the go-to book series to start on clan lore. It should be available in digital format and/or at bookstores. It all starts, and gets explained there. It also happens to be one of the better Btech book series, which is a bonus.

Ah thank you friend.