237 replies to this topic

[Sheraf]

Both sides starts at a distance from each other. Running into SRM6 cat is because of your scout not doing its job so effectively.

[M4rtyr]

Noth, on 14 January 2013 - 08:12 AM, said:

Actually, You do know that most of the time what looks good on paper doesn't work out. You don't know what it would be like. If .3 damage difference on LRMs can be the difference between them being effective or useless, you better bet that a .5 damage decrease on a weapon with a much smaller area of use is going to make them pretty much worthless. that supposed small change can create a big effect. You do not know what it was like, you don't know at all and you flat out tell people that do know that they are wrong. A tester that has tested what you are saying will work and has experienced it not working, soes in fact have special knowledge compared to you.

Fine forget it... you guys are taking it from the stand point that every weapon should be your main killer.

Thats not how Battle tech works... Every weapon has its own role. Why do you think the Cent has an LRM AC and lasers. The LRM just does a little damage while closing or chasing and the other weapons make the finish. Or the Cats with nothing but LRMs. Everyone knows they are dead in close because they can't do anything close in. So why not give them a close range weapon. They are fire support designed to stand behind a hill and add a little damage to the front line fighters.

But no, you guys obviously don't understand these concepts so therefore all weapons have to do killing leve of damage instead of having their roles.

[SixstringSamurai]

M4rtyr, on 14 January 2013 - 08:17 AM, said:

Fine forget it... you guys are taking it from the stand point that every weapon should be your main killer.

Thats not how Battle tech works... Every weapon has its own role. Why do you think the Cent has an LRM AC and lasers. The LRM just does a little damage while closing or chasing and the other weapons make the finish. Or the Cats with nothing but LRMs. Everyone knows they are dead in close because they can't do anything close in. So why not give them a close range weapon. They are fire support designed to stand behind a hill and add a little damage to the front line fighters.

But no, you guys obviously don't understand these concepts so therefore all weapons have to do killing leve of damage instead of having their roles.

Then don't come into a forum topic that specifically states the ONE weapon is a problem and argue then.

[Noth]

M4rtyr, on 14 January 2013 - 08:17 AM, said:

Fine forget it... you guys are taking it from the stand point that every weapon should be your main killer.

Thats not how Battle tech works... Every weapon has its own role. Why do you think the Cent has an LRM AC and lasers. The LRM just does a little damage while closing or chasing and the other weapons make the finish. Or the Cats with nothing but LRMs. Everyone knows they are dead in close because they can't do anything close in. So why not give them a close range weapon. They are fire support designed to stand behind a hill and add a little damage to the front line fighters.

But no, you guys obviously don't understand these concepts so therefore all weapons have to do killing leve of damage instead of having their roles.

You do know that BT extends beyond table top and in Lore LRMs kill effectively. Heck in previous mech warrior lore and open cinematics you can see LRMs flat out killing targets.

Also LRMs at 1 damage per missile would be horrid for supporting fire from a centurion before closing in. It would be more effective for him to just save the weight and upgrade to a better ballistic. Every weapon when boated should be deadly.

Edited by Noth, 14 January 2013 - 08:20 AM.

[XvDraxvX]

Are you kidding me????

Nerf LRM's!
Nerf SRM'S!
Nerf Gauss!
Make ECM OP!!


What else will happen????

SRM's are fine, LRM's are nerfed into the ground, Gauss has been nerfed a bit to hard, and ECM is OP

Eventually this game will term into ECM Online, where you fight your friends with Tag lasers and bean bags.... and Launch Narc beacons from range.

[Schranz]

well,.. srm's are basicly the only thing i can still use my a1 for,..why not nerf srm aswell,..yeah great,..what shall i get next 6 narc launchers running across caustic valley circle strafing people while narcing em screaming YOLO! ..

Or i can become a lrm or streakcat that can kill someone really fast in 20% of the times and cannot even fire a single shot the other 80%

And then there is allready the insanely long delay i get when i want to use srm's ..

I've mentioned this in another post and i dont know if its game or ping related but when i pull the trigger on these things i can read the whole bible and translate it before i see a hail of missiles

[Prophet of Entropy]

SRMs are fine. if you think srms are OP then you never want to see any clan tech introduced, that s**t is OP.

[SixstringSamurai]

I honestly don't understand the problem really. SRMs are supposed to be a point defense weapon to make other mech think twice about closing the distance with you. In TT you wouldn't just have one of your mechs just stand in front of a mech with SRMs inside of their range. That's been translated here very well. It's a weapon that should be feared and make you not want to stand 270m in front of a person using them. LRMs are fine too since they accomplish the role of suppressing an attacking mech at a distance and will kill a wounded mech. They are supposed to. Granted I could see 20s providing a little more heat when you fire them since right now its very easy to abuse them IN THE RIGHT HANDS. But it requires taking a mech whos purpose is something else and retasking it so it effectively out of the front lines and probably a lot slower.

[Superslicks]

Zrave, on 13 January 2013 - 05:56 AM, said:

I don't understand why SRM damage was buffed in comparison to tabletop. They are the strongest weapons for short range brawling, and become completely overpowered when you can get close enough to miss with only a few missiles. In tabletop, SRMs are balanced around the fact that on average only about half the missiles hit, but in MWO you can force most of the missiles to hit if you're under 100m distance. When I play my srm stalker I routinely get over 1k damage.

If not for the hardpoint system, I'd pack my mech with like 10 srm6. I don't think you can say that about many other weapons. Just compare it to the LB-10X, they both have shotgun like effects but the LB-10X does less damage at three times the tonnage and slots. Sure it has the advantage of range but a shotgun is not a very effective sniper weapon

I think a return to 2 damage per missile would be reasonable.

And so it begins
I also think srms are ok, One you have to get close enough to use them and that is a chalange in itself
Reward is you get to unlish hell

Edited by Superslicks, 14 January 2013 - 09:03 AM.

[SpiralRazor]

M4rtyr, on 14 January 2013 - 12:47 AM, said:

Umm, LRM's are a support weapon. They are artilery, the only weapon that could do IDF. Or would you rather claim that a LRM Cat with only 2 LRM launchers is a front line fighter. A freaking Locust can kill anything with onlt LRM's because they are a fire support weapon and are all but useless when you get in close, even in MWO.

Yes LRM's did a fair amount of damage but nothing unbalanced. Now instead of doing blocks of 5 damage they might as well be doing blocks of 10, thats out of balance.

Look there are reasons why the TT rules have all the weapons having such damage levels, tonnages, cit space, heat, etc. Now when you double the damage of only a couple weapon systems and leave EVERYTHING else the same it throws what was balanced into and unbalanced state. It's that simple.

And don't try saying this isn't TT, because they have based the weapons completely on TT.

There is no valid reason for the missiles to have their damage doubled. Only reason I've even heard is the doubled armor, well again, armor plays no part in the question of, are LRMs and SRMs balanced -COMPARED TO THE OTHER WEAPONS-..

Which they are not.

Um....no....just because a mech has a different effective range then another does not relegate the weapons systems it carries to a "Support" Role....

Let me explain it. A Support weapon would be like a Single LRM on a mech with 2 or 3 range bands. You use the LRM while your closing range for the rest of your weapons or to stand off and harass if theres no good closer targets. A support weapon would be a single or maybe a pair of SRM 6 launchers, bolstering your close in firepower in case you do come close to heavy/assault... A support weapon would be a AC/2-5-10/Gauss while the rest of your weapons are cooling down. The M72 grenade launcher is a support weapon, especially when its underslung.

If you are devoting a majority of a mechs tonnage to a singular weapons system, thats your PRIMARY means of dealing damage, and dealing damage is meant to cripple and destroy the enemy. Case in point, if you have X2 LRM 20s+Artemis on a Catapult, and 2 medium lasers, your going to be dealing damage via range, and your medium lasers are going to be supporting weapons.


And again, you are ignoring the reasons individual missile damages are buffed...Namely double armor, losing lock, having to gain lock, movement, cover, ECM, AMS, profile of the mech you are targeting, lag, missile flight speeds/TOT, spread value, angle of attack, angle of descent and more im forgetting.

In TT, all i had to do was make my hit roll, and you were taking tons of damage, Period.

[Hou]

<sigh> Unguided SRMs now? Large lasers next? Ermergerd, an Atlas can mount four of them on its arms with over 20 double heatsinks! Repeated 36 damage pinpoint alphas to one section with no firing delay, no ammo, no lead, no skill weapons with amazing effectiveness from 0 to 675meters!!

The problem is more with the map design and if you are pugging you can't coordinate mech loadouts with your team making the lowest common denominator of strategic planning(the brawl) a more likely outcome in any given match than the sniper/artillery line with defense to prevent a brawl.

Edited by Hou, 14 January 2013 - 09:42 AM.

[SpiralRazor]

Broceratops, on 14 January 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

LBX is evidence they're doing it right. LBX didn't get a damage improvement and they are totally useless except for making a cool sound. Even if they got a 20% damage buff like SRMs did and were in effect LBX-12, they'd *still* be total ***. And this is *with* tighter spread than SRMs.

LBX pellets need at least a 100% damage buff to even be worth considering. A hail of AC/2 shot sounds right anyway, especially at those ranges.

[Even Dark]

so lol in every thread

you are right srm6 are to op but ppl will never say yes because they use them self all the time

i use self srm6 build and yes its op the dps rocks you can see this on the battlefield on the dps.

i just reach in my games 1k+ damage in a round with my lrm20 buid and srm6 build an i see ppl reach this dps with this builds.

so rockets are ok? lol...

[SpiralRazor]

M4rtyr, on 14 January 2013 - 07:21 AM, said:

No they don't work in Live action mainly due to the fire rate. however, you are honestly going to tell me that SRM's need the higher damage for no other reason then spread, which is part of their balance, or short range, part of their balance again, or the doubleing of armor? Thats all BS.

I will grant you that ML and MPL have had their heat dropped one point I missed that, but they still are at much more of a disadvantage then missiles. putting the missile damage will not hurt them. I don't care if I wasn't here to see it, I know how much damage they would do and how it's applied. All it'll do is put them more in line and you'll get less complaints about missile boats. Again, not seeing any complaint about laser boats.

Umm..DUH.... do you realize that you missed a lot of the balancing that already happened????

The reason you arent seeing TONS of complaints on lasers is that all the smaller lasers got NERFED HARD, and the larger energy weapons recieved small buffs to make them not totally useless.

You simply havent been in the game long enough to comment on the changes youre talking about... Like Noth said, even at 1.5 LRMS were complete junk...they had to go to 1.8 to get a modicum of effectiveness.

Even still, against organized teams LRMS have dubious value, at best....in PUGS well....you can use anything in pugs, and people do..including 60KPH Cicadas with 3 Flamers.

[SpiralRazor]

Even Dark, on 14 January 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

so lol in every thread

you are right srm6 are to op but ppl will never say yes because they use them self all the time

i use self srm6 build and yes its op the dps rocks you can see this on the battlefield on the dps.

i just reach in my games 1k+ damage in a round with my lrm20 buid and srm6 build an i see ppl reach this dps with this builds.

so rockets are ok? lol...

Right..and i get the same kills as you, or more, every game using my LL build Stalkers....with damage totals around 300-400.

Raw damage numbers dont tell the whole story bud.

Also, i dont think you really know what "DPS" means.

I hardly ever use SRMS or LRMS nowadays. Out of all the mechs i have, only the Stalkers mount SRMS, and thats only because the only thing that gives me trouble are other Stalkers and Atlai getting in my face.

[Schranz]

i would fear the lights more,..when im in my boring commando i chuckle when i see an atlas or a stalker alone i only die when i get too confident and stand still for a second an lose both legs in one blast

[Gallowglas]

Frankly, no, I don't think they're overpowered. Yes, they're deadly at very short ranges, but they're not disproportionately more effective than other weapons. Each weapon should feel pretty deadly in its optimum range(s).

[PropagandaWar]

If used correctly the following weapons are OP:

AC 2/5/10/20, UAC 5 Gauss, Small/Med/Large/ER and Pulse Lasers, PPC, SRM's

If you can keep a circle in a big box and ECM is not in the equation the following weapons are more OP:

Streak SRM's, LRM 10/15/20's.

Man I'm Screwed

[Aym]

Any discussion of damage, buffs, nerfs, and balance needs to include an idea of where the combat SHOULD be. We need to know the base-line combat pace that PGI intends for MWO and I'm not sure they have such in mind. W/out that any discussion should at least mention your own ideal, such as which weapon(s) you believe are balanced and why you want X system brought in line (either buff or nerf).

[Zrave]

A few of the responses were of the "qq more noob" variety, so I recorded a video while playing an SRM stalker (one of my main mechs). Yeah the opponents were bad but this is a fairly typical match.