29 replies to this topic

[Serapth]

We talk quite often about how the new user is, but the reality is most of us that have been around since closed beta or are legendary founders actually have no idea what it's like.

Inspired by Athena's excellent thread, I've decided to document the process... playing the game from the beginning under the same circumstances the a new users faces. This means grinding out with starter mechs until I can earn my own, etc... and documenting the experience here. I hope some of you find it interesting.



Match 1
Mech: RVN-2X
Mode: Assault
Time of day: 4:30PM EST
Result: Defeat 8 v 1

Description:
This was a bad start. Simply put, I didn't realize that all of the graphic and control settings were tied to the user and not the computer. Started the match and it was 1280x720 on my 34" screen, which is almost unberable. Worse, the input mapping was all screwed up, so for example, left click didnt shoot. I had to use 1-6 to shoot and I never got used to it. Took me a while to figure out what was going on then it was too late. Team got absolutely rolled... I certainly didn't help them.

Mech Details:
Hard to judge at this point, barely got to play it. Weapon load out are reasonable. 1LL, 2 ML. Top speed is a farse. Light mech with a top speed of 81km/h? How do you spell deathtrap?

Results:




Match 2
Mech: CN9-D
Mode: Assault
Time of day: 4:30PM EST
Result: Defeat 8 v 3

Description:
Another technical problem, something i've run into in the past. On my G700 mouse, pressing button 5 went back to its default behavior ( minimize to the desktop ). Needless to say, when I launched my LRMs and found myself staring at my desktop... crap.

Match itself was a bit more balanced... tons of friendly fire though ( ask JMan5, he was there ). Opposing team played it well and emerged from tunnels taking us from behind. Once that happened, all fire control broke down and it became a festival of friendly fire. My damage was down since my LRM10 was out of action.

Mech Details:
Mech is actually reasonable. LBX AC10, 2 ML, 1 LRM10. Not a loudout I would pick, but not terrible. LBX is a lousy primary weapon, but heat was atleast manageable with this build. That said, I died after an overheat shutdown, so still not ideal... but truth told, that was more pilot error than the mech.





Match 3
Mech: DRG-5N
Mode: Conquest
Time of day: 4:57PM EST
Result: Victory 8 v 2

Description:
Lots of cheese. 3 ECM Ravens in the other team, plus an ECM Atlas. Effectively took LRM out of the fight. Fortunately, the 3l drivers where @#$#$ing awful... straight line runners, easy to take down, lagshield or not. Mech started with us having a disconnect and them down a man, so it evened out.

Mech Details:
WTF are they thinking????? The stock Dragon 5n is verging on useless.

Main gun is an Ultra AC5 with... 25 shots! I hit 80% of the time, that's my total damage output before my AC ran out of ammo. After that it left me with a single medium laser. This mech is HORRIBLE. Especially if an ECM heavy fight where your LRMs are useless. 25 shots??? Seriously??? Only saving grace, I managed to leg one of those raven ********... but only had a ML left to kill him with... and couldn't. More ammo and I would have had atleast that kill to my credit. Seriously if they dropped a ton of LRM ammo and upped the UAC5 ammo, it might be almost useful.





Match 4
Mech: STK-3f
Mode: Conquest
Time of day: 5:13PM EST
Result: Defeat 8 v 0 ( but 2 assists and a TK... you figure that one out )

Description:

Team got pretty much rolled. Lot of cheese Raven 3ls again, possible a 4some of them, at least 3. You can't pick a worse combination of level + gamemode for a Stalker than River City + Conquest. Again, ended 8v0 but I got 2 kill assists... This was one of those dreaded Raven cheese fights. On top of that, the use Gareths Dad killed himself 30 seconds in... haven't seen a suicide in a while.

Mech Details:
Mech is way overly complicated for new users... 5 weapon groups. 4ML, 2LL, 2xLRM10, 2xSRM6. Nowhere near enough heat to manage them. Remapped ML to be on a single chainfire group, chain fired the LL, and still spent 3/4 of the match shutdown or waiting for my heat to fall. This mech is WAYYYYYYYYY under heat sinked and is certainly not appropriate to a beginner. 2xSRM6 at least is a reasonable deterrent for a murder of cheese Ravens.





Match 5
Mech: RVN-2X
Mode: Conquest
Time of day: 5:30PM EST
Result: Defeat 8 v 1

Description:
Lost a player to a bug right off the hop.
Mech Details:
Ok... this time I had my keyboard/resolution/mouse setup, so I can properly evaluate the Raven 2X.

It's @$$#ing horrid. A 81km/h light mech, that itself is terrible. On top, the weapon load out of 1LL, 2ML and an SRM6 sound great, but are beyond useless. The single large laser spikes the heat out nearly 60%. Just the LL and 2 ML will shutdown the mech. You need to be down around 40% heat or lower to fire the SRM6 without shutting down. This mech would be 10x more viable if it had an XL engine and used the spare weight for heat sinks. Even as a veteran of the game, heat management in this mech is a nightmare, but the speed isn't high enough to let you scout, and the weapons arent enough to let you stand and fight.

Again, this mech is absolutely useless.


After 5 matches, 4 defeats, 1 victory, 2,341,430 c-bills and 46 GXP earned.


From this point on I will drop the completely useless trial mechs.

This means the RVN-2X and DRG-5N are getting the axe. The STK and CN9 aren't great ( they are outright bad actually ), but compared to those other two they are downright amazing. I always new the trial mechs weren't got, but I hadn't realized how horrid they really are.


If you are playing now, using trial mechs, go with the Centurian. The Dragon could have been an option... but 1 ton of reloads for the main gun is just moronic.



In the next update, I will stick to Mech/Mode/Results only, until i've earned enough to buy a mech at least ( or 20 matches, whichever comes first ).

Edited by Serapth, 14 January 2013 - 03:45 PM.

[Vassago Rain]

That dragon is technically supposed to be even worse, getting a tiny 20 shots for its UAC5 under normal ammo capacity.

[Vernius Ix]

Start a second account and do it right FFS...do I have to tell you how to do everything!?!

[Serapth]

Vernius Ix, on 14 January 2013 - 03:46 PM, said:

Start a second account and do it right FFS...do I have to tell you how to do everything!?!

Huh?

[TalonOne]

Yeah that kinda sums up my latest experience with the game:

"Missed the last wipe, so now everything is gone.. but lets see how MWO plays now!
Trial Mech 1: Oh god the slowness. Deathtrap.
Trial Mech 2: Not too bad, but not good.
Trial Mech 3: What the hell were they thinking?
Trial Mech 4: Terrible. Heated Deathtrap.

Alright, I have enough Money, lets buy that Centurion, fit in a better Gun and lets have some fun!
Oh wait, Ballistics have a huge firing delay, I can't hit anything.
Mech sold.Not much money back but hey, there is that support-type raven. Fast lights gonna be cheap.
Wait, HOW much does that thing cost???
How long do i have to grind to get that?
...
Uuuhm...
Well, back to World of Tanks."

Not to hate on the Game, there is so much potential here but... meh.
And don't start with the Beta-argument. This was my experience for every patch since a year now.

[Rodder]

Now imagine that without cadetbonus and add stoneage-technic ( lagshooting should be gone since 2000, it is ABSOLUTELY NOT ACCEPTABLE IN THE YEAR 2012 !!! ) and constant bugs that kicked me out of every second game and you have my personal experience.

I had to cross the biggest valley of blood, sweat and tears i ever encountered in any game i ever played. It took my around 300-400 games to get enough money for a decent mech and to learn how to aim in this game. I had 2 Kills in 300 games and almost only loses ( i think i doomed my teams trough bad performance ), and it took ages to grind the C-Bills for my first mech. The only reason i stayed is BT. Without that i would have dumped the game after the 3. match.

A fresh install helped a lot, something must have gone bad with my first download. Stoneage-technic again, how is it possible that there is no working filecheck after download and corrupted files get used for install?

Again, i would`t do that to myself if it wasnt BT. But i am pretty hardcore and don`t give up that easy if i want something.

PS: There are at least 2 trialmechs now that are not total worthless. I had to use the biggest crap in BT-history ...

Edited by Rodder, 14 January 2013 - 04:39 PM.

[Buck Cake]

The OP sums it up nicely, not much to add. As a new player I had a similar case of not knowing what to do while being stuck in an unplayable mech.

Personally, I'd like them to never fix it. I'd like them to fail utterly and sell off the rights to MWO to either professionals who will do it right or fans who will do it passionately. Our noobs are just eating the fruits of several months of half-assery.

[Carnivoris]

Maybe you guys should just stop being bad at video games. What? You want them to just give you the best loadouts for mechs when you start? That's a joke. Trial mechs are stock BT loadouts. No, they're not ideal. You gotta buy a mech and learn how to outfit it with the best gear.

There's something about video games: if you think it's a grind, it's not the right game for you. This is not an FPS, it's a sim. You pilot a Battlemech. You have several things to consider while piloting it. You have to manage heat. That's one of the MOST important things you can learn. Trial mechs do a good job of conditioning the new player to ease up on shooting to let their mech cool down.

I do think that the game needs a tutorial mode where players can learn how to do things. I personally don't understand what's so difficult about figuring out torso twist. It took me all of about 10 seconds. You also need to realize that each mech has a different purpose and place on the battlefield.

If you just go Rambo and charge into a bunch of mechs, though, it doesn't matter. You're going to get torn to shreds. This isn't a single player game.

HOW ******* many games did it take you to buy your first mech? How many of those did you win? How many people did you kill? Oh, you weren't top of the scoreboard? You JUST started playing! Get some skills, it'll pay off in cbills.

I do think the new player experience needs improvement but they helped that a LOT with the cadet bonus. If it took me 400 games to buy my first mech (that was without cadet bonus), I don't remember it. It sure doesn't feel like it. Maybe I was having too much fun to notice.

[Buck Cake]

Carnivoris, on 14 January 2013 - 04:56 PM, said:

Maybe you guys should just stop being bad at video games. What? You want them to just give you the best loadouts for mechs when you start? That's a joke. Trial mechs are stock BT loadouts. No, they're not ideal. You gotta buy a mech and learn how to outfit it with the best gear.

There's something about video games: if you think it's a grind, it's not the right game for you. This is not an FPS, it's a sim. You pilot a Battlemech. You have several things to consider while piloting it. You have to manage heat. That's one of the MOST important things you can learn. Trial mechs do a good job of conditioning the new player to ease up on shooting to let their mech cool down.

I do think that the game needs a tutorial mode where players can learn how to do things. I personally don't understand what's so difficult about figuring out torso twist. It took me all of about 10 seconds. You also need to realize that each mech has a different purpose and place on the battlefield.

If you just go Rambo and charge into a bunch of mechs, though, it doesn't matter. You're going to get torn to shreds. This isn't a single player game.

HOW ******* many games did it take you to buy your first mech? How many of those did you win? How many people did you kill? Oh, you weren't top of the scoreboard? You JUST started playing! Get some skills, it'll pay off in cbills.

I do think the new player experience needs improvement but they helped that a LOT with the cadet bonus. If it took me 400 games to buy my first mech (that was without cadet bonus), I don't remember it. It sure doesn't feel like it. Maybe I was having too much fun to notice.

Try it yourself, maybe you change your mind.

[Rodder]

Carnivoris, on 14 January 2013 - 04:56 PM, said:

Maybe you guys should just stop being bad at video games. What? You want them to just give you the best loadouts for mechs when you start? That's a joke. Trial mechs are stock BT loadouts. No, they're not ideal. You gotta buy a mech and learn how to outfit it with the best gear.

There's something about video games: if you think it's a grind, it's not the right game for you. This is not an FPS, it's a sim. You pilot a Battlemech. You have several things to consider while piloting it. You have to manage heat. That's one of the MOST important things you can learn. Trial mechs do a good job of conditioning the new player to ease up on shooting to let their mech cool down.

I do think that the game needs a tutorial mode where players can learn how to do things. I personally don't understand what's so difficult about figuring out torso twist. It took me all of about 10 seconds. You also need to realize that each mech has a different purpose and place on the battlefield.

If you just go Rambo and charge into a bunch of mechs, though, it doesn't matter. You're going to get torn to shreds. This isn't a single player game.

HOW ******* many games did it take you to buy your first mech? How many of those did you win? How many people did you kill? Oh, you weren't top of the scoreboard? You JUST started playing! Get some skills, it'll pay off in cbills.

I do think the new player experience needs improvement but they helped that a LOT with the cadet bonus. If it took me 400 games to buy my first mech (that was without cadet bonus), I don't remember it. It sure doesn't feel like it. Maybe I was having too much fun to notice.

Come on. Most stockmechs are almost unplayable, because they don`t have enough heatsinks and ammunition, and you know that. They have always been known as inefficent and everyone in every BT-game drops them or changes the loadout as fast as possible.

It would help if a new player gets a mech he could customize himself. Just one mech for free instead of those 4 stockmechs they are forced to use.

Edit: I forgot the cadet bonus again. That helps a lot for sure.

Edited by Rodder, 14 January 2013 - 05:18 PM.

[GalaxyBluestar]

stock mechs are garbadge and the devs are entirely responcible for it. they kept TT loadouts but doubled up armor screwed round with firerates and heat so that the only way to level it off again is to double up your ammo and heatsinks accordingly. dragon should by all means be twice as powerfull as it is but armor double ups cut it's firepower potential in half. Awesome should be a devestator but instead it lays on half the pain then shuts down early to be eatten by custom mechs that can lay more pain for longer. same with the cataphract one alpha of it's medlasers and you've consigned yourself to the ac and a shut down with no heat being reduced after your back online.

this set up was implemented to make fights last longer but they didn't realise that having 8v8 in an arena size map was what makes the matches short. toe to toe if stock armor was maintained instead of the double up stock mechs would be challenging but still competative to a custom mech. now though we're stuck with 12 mechs that are almost useless to anyone with half a brain to modify the ammo and heat to cope with the crazy values, never have i known a mech game to screw up it's core content this badly. no wonder newbies are put off.

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 14 January 2013 - 05:20 PM.

[Sgt Greyhawk]

I am a Newbie and proud of it! The trial mechs are just fine, they aren't great but they are good enough to earn enough C-bills to buy whatever mech you want. However if there was no cadet bonus I would probably be agreeing with you, I can't even imagine what it was like not to have a cadet bonus and just have to slug it out with awful trial mechs (yes they are all awful). I had a Raven, Dragon, Centurion and Stalker for trial. Stalker was overheating constantly, the dragon was pathetic as was the centurion. The Raven was what it was but it is not a good mech to put a newbie in for sure.To make the long story short, the trials are good enough to let you understand what class you want to buy into and they get you used to the controls and different weapon types (when you're not dying that is). As for giving the new players any mech or a mech to customize at the start, they wouldn't have the knowledge needed in order to create a mech that would be acceptable in the first place. Key word here: newbie

[Serapth]

Next 5 games.

Match 6
CN9-D
8:15PM
Conquest
Victory

Opposing team was down a man due to disconnect. Fighting heat curve heavily, LRMs pretty much a non-factor in this match.



Match 7
STK-3F
8:23PM
Conquest
Victory

Why is it every time I take the stalker I get a) RiverCity Conquest. I had little effect on this match, it was over pretty quickly... about 3 minutes. Still managed to overheat twice.



Match 8
STK - forgot to switch mechs
Assault
Defeat

We had a premade on our side or the oddest coincidence. 4 mechs, all with the exact same paint scheme. Granted, not a good premade. Mech is just underpowered, but I managed to keep it from shuting down at least. Ironically I saw another Stalker with virtually an identical loadout, except instead of 2 LRM10, he had 3 LRM15s... otherwise pretty much identical.



Match 9
DRG-5N
8:42PM
Assault
Defeat

I figured I would give the Dragon another shot... good god why. First hit took out the UAC5, even though the arm was yellow. I'm wondering where they store the ammo on these trial mechs... certainly not in the legs like everyone else does. Then again, I could have been in my mastered D-DC and this match was a lost cause. Immediately split into two groups, one did a tunnel rush, then apparently split up again. The rest took position in the lower level of ice city, the enemy smelled blood rolled over and slaughtered us 8 on 4. Then 2 of the mechs that banzaied through the tunnels came back to help, while a Dragon and Raven ran circles around the cap point... The dragon was armed with Machine guns and flamers.... /sigh. This was over before it started. Losing my primary weapon on the first shot that hit me was bad luck, but it happens. Frankly Dragon is an awful mech.



Match 10
CN9-D
8:59PM
Assault
Defeat

This match sucked... Brutal ballastic lag... like 2-4 seconds between firing LBX and it shooting, ditto for missiles. On top of that there were other oddities, like phantom ECM mechs. There was a HBK for example under the bridge between upper city and the starting point under the effects of ECM, even though the closest ECM mech was still fighting in upper city. I've noticed this bug a few times since the last patch. I was around a 20ms ping, so it shouldn't be anything like that.




At 4,53,507 cbills and 108 GXP now.

[Serapth]

Carnivoris, on 14 January 2013 - 04:56 PM, said:

Maybe you guys should just stop being bad at video games. What? You want them to just give you the best loadouts for mechs when you start? That's a joke. Trial mechs are stock BT loadouts. No, they're not ideal. You gotta buy a mech and learn how to outfit it with the best gear.

There's something about video games: if you think it's a grind, it's not the right game for you. This is not an FPS, it's a sim. You pilot a Battlemech. You have several things to consider while piloting it. You have to manage heat. That's one of the MOST important things you can learn. Trial mechs do a good job of conditioning the new player to ease up on shooting to let their mech cool down.

I do think that the game needs a tutorial mode where players can learn how to do things. I personally don't understand what's so difficult about figuring out torso twist. It took me all of about 10 seconds. You also need to realize that each mech has a different purpose and place on the battlefield.

If you just go Rambo and charge into a bunch of mechs, though, it doesn't matter. You're going to get torn to shreds. This isn't a single player game.

HOW ******* many games did it take you to buy your first mech? How many of those did you win? How many people did you kill? Oh, you weren't top of the scoreboard? You JUST started playing! Get some skills, it'll pay off in cbills.

I do think the new player experience needs improvement but they helped that a LOT with the cadet bonus. If it took me 400 games to buy my first mech (that was without cadet bonus), I don't remember it. It sure doesn't feel like it. Maybe I was having too much fun to notice.

You realize that is entirely the point of all of this... I actually DO know how to pilot a mech, I created a new account and started over. I don't pretend to be an expert of this game, but I am not awful. I tend to score top 1 or 2 on the scoreboard for my team and rarely ever do less than 300 damage, even in defeat.

Going back to day one though, it is showing just how brutal the experience is for a newbie. But there are a few things that worked out better than I expect. In Athenas thread, she went like 20 and 1, I was shocked to see less victories. I was starting to worry it was grouping complete beginners together, that doesn't seem to be the case.

If it wasn't for the cadet bonus, I would probably be at about 400k now, I highly doubt I would grind 5mil cbills in a trial mech without the cadets bonus.


These mechs are really really really bad. Fortunately im getting near the point I can outlay for a medium.

[Serapth]

Actually, I have enough for a MECH + Endo steel upgrade right now. Purchased one of these, simply because it's a series I never played. ( I started with the founder HBK, and never felt the need to play a different 50ton ).



Still basically stock, and need to grind out the XP for heat pronto, but its better than all 4 of the awful trial mechs.


So, a newbie can get into and slightly upgrade a medium mech after about 10 matches with the cadet bonus.


Funds are pretty tight, so ive only slightly modified the mech. I removed the small laser and replaced it with a medium, added 3 heat sinks to bring heat ratio up to 1.14. Will grind for DHS next. Also noticed a zero weapon point arm ( dont think ive seen that before... ), so de armoured it down to about 18 to fit another heat sink.

Current load out, LRM10, LL, 3ML, plus enough heat sinks to actually use them. Not great, but better than the trials.

Off the topic, this is a weird mech... it's got a nice mix of hardpoints but it will be weird how I build it out. Unlike my main character, I dont have a huge pile of weapons and cbills to drop in and out as I see fit... so I need to carefully plan what Im going to do after DHS.

Edited by Serapth, 14 January 2013 - 07:07 PM.

[Screech]

I would stick with Stalker if trying to max out results. It probably is best of the current trials. Its main drawback is that it runs so damn hot but it is solid. Did 22 games tonight in a Stalker trial tonight all solo pug on alt, got lucky with decent games, 11/11 W/L 18/11 K/D.

[GalaxyBluestar]

Sgt Greyhawk, on 14 January 2013 - 05:44 PM, said:

I am a Newbie and proud of it! The trial mechs are just fine, they aren't great but they are good enough to earn enough C-bills to buy whatever mech you want. However if there was no cadet bonus I would probably be agreeing with you, I can't even imagine what it was like not to have a cadet bonus and just have to slug it out with awful trial mechs (yes they are all awful). I had a Raven, Dragon, Centurion and Stalker for trial. Stalker was overheating constantly, the dragon was pathetic as was the centurion. The Raven was what it was but it is not a good mech to put a newbie in for sure.To make the long story short, the trials are good enough to let you understand what class you want to buy into and they get you used to the controls and different weapon types (when you're not dying that is). As for giving the new players any mech or a mech to customize at the start, they wouldn't have the knowledge needed in order to create a mech that would be acceptable in the first place. Key word here: newbie

that's just it, cadet bonus is a recent addition because the devs know they've screwed stock mechs over along with half the current game content. cadet bonus is to make sure you newbies don't run off in frustration but to join the minmaxer full mech tree perks domination as soon as possible so you think the game's alright. when i was cbill grinding i used the ctapult with 2xlrm15 and 4 med lasers cause it was the only mech that would have some punch with lrms and survivability with a torso twist and no 4med laser alpha shut downs. the lighter mechs would get creamed quick and the atlas at the time had an xl engine which meant it fell apart as quick as the catpult did without the manourvablity perks. that atlas was a long range mech in a close range game. if cadet bonus wasn't around this game would be in serious player growth trouble.

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 14 January 2013 - 07:15 PM.

[BL00D RAVEN]

i actually like the raven 2x, thats what i used at the start of open beta

[Serapth]

BL00D RAVEN, on 14 January 2013 - 07:24 PM, said:

i actually like the raven 2x, thats what i used at the start of open beta

See, I've mastered the Raven, it's not a great loadout, especially since ECM brought the 3l to dominance, but it isn't terrible. The trial one though.... awful. Too slow for a scout and the weapon load is useless because it cant handle the heat. It would actually be a better starter mech if they removed the SRM6, all the ammo, and put the remainder into heatsinks and maybe 1 MLS.

[BL00D RAVEN]

Serapth, on 14 January 2013 - 07:28 PM, said:

See, I've mastered the Raven, it's not a great loadout, especially since ECM brought the 3l to dominance, but it isn't terrible. The trial one though.... awful. Too slow for a scout and the weapon load is useless because it cant handle the heat. It would actually be a better starter mech if they removed the SRM6, all the ammo, and put the remainder into heatsinks and maybe 1 MLS.

i mastered the ravens before ecm came out, the 3l was my least favorite(almost sold it before ecm came out)

its about patience and being good bait for your team/pug group people

Edited by BL00D RAVEN, 14 January 2013 - 07:39 PM.