208 replies to this topic

[SlXSlXSlX]

Well i just assumed, in the interets of good business sense, mm and some solution for premade dominance would be included in this patch. Should I go read teh patch notes? Am I going to be disappointed?

[Serapth]

Lykaon, on 15 January 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

And there is plenty of that on the other side of the fence.

PuG players demanding that any and all premades of any sort be seperated into a small community and not allowed to avail themselves of the advantages of a larger player pool. Like for example que times that are under 6 minutes.

The issue is these pugs who make these demands are blisfully unaware of how the other side plays or what they experience in 8 man ques.These exclusivly PuG players lack the overall experience to be a qualified judge.

If the segragation occurs they get to play their way and if any premade preferanced player wants to also play they can either face the potential of a long wait in que or PuG.essentially being forced to play the PuG way if you want to play in a timely manner.

The "PuG" in this case is essentially saying play my way or be sent away to match maker purgatory.

Oh, I agree completely, but in this particular situation, we arent on that side of the fence. Generally too, the level of vitriol and hyperbole on the premade side of the fence is so much higher. The other factor is, the premade are currently getting their way, while the PUGs arent. That is going to completely change the dynamic of the conversation.


I agree with you completely that these people, on both sides of the fence, aren't helping the dialog in the least. The problem is, both sides are dismissive of the other sides problems, and that gets the game nowehere.

What I find infuriating is, there is a remarkably simple answer, one that you and I ( and bguk, and a number of other more moderate rational people ) have agreed one... balancing premades across teams. Sadly the only people not on board seem to be the devs.

SlXSlXSlX, on 15 January 2013 - 12:13 PM, said:

Well i just assumed, in the interets of good business sense, mm and some solution for premade dominance would be included in this patch. Should I go read teh patch notes? Am I going to be disappointed?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh yes... you are going to be disappointed. You are going to be swearing, loudly. In fact, you will probably be making your own thread.

I actually posit, that you are going to be more disappointed with this patch than you ever have been with PGI before.


Otherwise no, the patch is fine.

EDIT: Spelling phonetically is bad, mmmkay.

Edited by Serapth, 15 January 2013 - 12:15 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Serapth,
But wouldn't the separation the PUGs are looking for be part of the eventual Community Warfare? There will be planets Specifically for premades (House's and Mercs) and there will be free for all planets. Folks like me will be engaging the Clanners mostly for Archon and house. And only the bravest Lone Wolves will be joining us (dramatic intent not insulting)! Shouldn't that give us the division some are looking for?

[Serapth]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 January 2013 - 12:19 PM, said:

Serapth,
But wouldn't the separation the PUGs are looking for be part of the eventual Community Warfare? There will be planets Specifically for premades (House's and Mercs) and there will be free for all planets. Folks like me will be engaging the Clanners mostly for Archon and house. And only the bravest Lone Wolves will be joining us (dramatic intent not insulting)! Shouldn't that give us the division some are looking for?

/Looks at today's patch notes.

/Looks at your comments.


Sure thing... at the current pace of development, we might see that by 2017.

Right now we are basically playing a game of CounterStrike with mechs, the gulf between the two is massive, we can't put off the major problem of today because they will be potentially addressed sometime in the future.


Dont get me wrong, that vision of the game is exactly what I signed up for. I love the idea of taking planets, fighting for a faction, faction vs faction, etc... its just, well, we are so far away from that it would be laughable, or bring tears to my eyes.

Thing is, I like the core of the game we have today too, its a fun little battle in mechs, its just horrible broken on basic levels. Those holes need to be fixed first before they can even begin to tackle the big picture stuff.

[Havyek]

I have no problem with the MM being adjusted to ensure that a group is on each side, my question is where does it start and where does it end?

If I want to group with a buddy of mine, do we need to wait 20 minutes before another group of 2 launches so they're put on the other side? Groups of 3 or more? Are we mostly focused on ensuring that full lances (4) face off against other lances, and fill the rest of whoever is available?

My worries are that the MM is balanced 4v4 then filled. Team A has a team of 4 and 2 teams of 2 for 8. Team B has a team of 4, a team of 3 and a PUGer.
PUGer wanders off alone and gets ***** by the team of 4. Proceeds to jump on the forums and whine that he just got his *** handed to him by a premade team of 8.
Why?
Because as said before. Fixing the code doesn't fix some people's game play. Team B actually has an advantage because they have 2 groups consisting of most of their team on coms. Had the PUG simply followed the group, he probably could have gotten a few kills and assists and felt on top of the world, but instead he had the lone wolf mentality and got lost in the woods and eaten by a pack.

Edited by BDU Havoc, 15 January 2013 - 12:48 PM.

[Serapth]

BDU Havoc, on 15 January 2013 - 12:48 PM, said:

I have no problem with the MM being adjusted to ensure that a group is on each side, my question is where does it start and where does it end?

If I want to group with a buddy of mine, do we need to wait 20 minutes before another group of 2 launches so they're put on the other side? Groups of 3 or more? Are we mostly focused on ensuring that full lances (4) face off against other lances, and fill the rest of whoever is available?

My worries are that the MM is balanced 4v4 then filled. Team A has a team of 4 and 2 teams of 2 for 8. Team B has a team of 4, a team of 3 and a PUGer.
PUGer wanders off alone and gets ***** by the team of 4. Proceeds to jump on the forums and whine that he just got his *** handed to him by a premade team of 8.
Why?
Because as said before. Fixing the code doesn't fix some people's game play. Team B actually has an advantage because they have 2 groups consisting of most of their team on coms. Had the PUG simply followed the group, he probably could have gotten a few kills and assists and felt on top of the world, but instead he had the lone wolf mentality and got lost in the woods and eaten by a pack.

Yeah, but this logic basically boils down to "don't apply this fix, because it doesnt solve everything".

Nothing ever does, this is their job as game designers to pick the outcome that hits the most plus while containing the least negatives. As far as I have ever seen, balancing premades across teams ticks the most boxes. To not implement it because it doesn't tick them all... that seems wrong.

[Havyek]

Serapth, on 15 January 2013 - 12:54 PM, said:

Yeah, but this logic basically boils down to "don't apply this fix, because it doesnt solve everything".

Nothing ever does, this is their job as game designers to pick the outcome that hits the most plus while containing the least negatives. As far as I have ever seen, balancing premades across teams ticks the most boxes. To not implement it because it doesn't tick them all... that seems wrong.

Well can we then at least agree then that the "premade boogeyman" is a fallacy, and the next step of the MM should be to match 4v4 then fill with remaining player base?

[Serapth]

BDU Havoc, on 15 January 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:

Well can we then at least agree then that the "premade boogeyman" is a fallacy, and the next step of the MM should be to match 4v4 then fill with remaining player base?

Certainly not.

I agree that premades are certainly not as prevalent as many people say they are, but I certainly believe they are a problem. I actually believe they are the biggest problem in this game at the moment, even if in the end it boils down entirely to a perception issue. Otherwise, yes, I agree the next step certainly is for the MM to match 4v4 then fill with pugs... or hell, 4v4 + 4v4 if possible. I think this improves the game for everybody.

Edited by Serapth, 15 January 2013 - 01:02 PM.

[Malkav]

I drop with 1 - 3 other players about 50% of the time. The rest is solo drops. I see no huge disparity in either way. I just work with the others in the team and have a better than 50% win ratio with both methods. Really this thread is a whine about a non-issue.

[REDACTED]

Edited by Viterbi, 15 January 2013 - 06:27 PM.
Removed directed attack