33 replies to this topic

[Darian DelFord]

Quote

Q: Does the general negativity and unrealistic expectations on the forums dishearten you at all? Or does it make you try even harder to please these particular individuals? [The Dutchmun]
A: It's hard not to have it affect one at all; generally it just makes people around the office less likely to read over the forums. I still do though, and for every negative/unrealistic expection filled post, there are dozens of PM's, emails, and threads that are the opposite. Also, we're dealing with long-time fans of a very old IP, so we expect people to be passionate. If I could have any one thing though, it would be the understanding that:

A) we're barely a year into development, and the poor guys are usually here till 10-11pm, so the 'you're just lazy' posts are unnecessary and flat out wrong. [Garth]

While I will not call the Dev's lazy and I know they are not, I fully realize and understand exactly how far they have come in a years time with this game, I really do, and for that my hat is off to them.

What struck me as odd from my standpoint is the reason for the negativity. As far as I am concerned you have opened the game up to everyone who wishes to pay, you are taking the money, and yet the game should still be in early closed beta, there are simply to many issues its having. I have no idea the financials of PGI and I am sure the publisher pushed for release to get money to come in. But am I the only that feels this should still be in early closed beta?

[Voridan Atreides]

Darian DelFord, on 16 January 2013 - 08:00 AM, said:

.....the game should still be in early closed beta

If I could give you some cake I would.

[Ngamok]

It's because it's easier for people to just say unrealistic and preposterous stuff versus saying something constructive about something they feel isn't right. So you get all these people juswt crying rather than the few that talk about something rational which have popped up on these forums but are few and far between.

[Roughneck45]

But they are not taking money. People that want to GIVE them money are doing so.

Sure, I wish more stuff was done, but is there anyone who doesnt feel that way? I see it more like a little kid wanting his presents before his bithday or something.

Like he said, they are working as hard as they can, and really thats all we can ask for. Anything more is just acting entitled.

Personally, I don't care what anyone calls it. Alpha, Beta, Live, you could make an argument for any one of those titles, but it doesn't really matter what you call it, because you still have the same product sitting in front of you.

Im just glad I get to play Mechwarrior again, and im having a blast with it.

Edited by Roughneck45, 16 January 2013 - 08:10 AM.

[Zolthar]

Money talk bro.

That's probably the main reason, but there is also that the game was supposed to be launched in December. Clearly the game wasn't ready for relase at that date (and it's still not ready today), but they chose to open it for the fans who wanted to be part of it.

Now we see lots of people talking with their emotions instead of their head. We see impatience. We see deceptions.

Take the ECM, I think it's the new target for their anger.
Before the ECM was the Artemis.
Before the Artemis it was the DHS that were OP at 2.0
Before DHS it was the LRM


But that's what beta is for, they can't reproduce the Production environement (the state of the game you actualy play) in their QA/Developpement environnement, they don't have the same pool of testers, even the hardware must be a tad different.

So they release patches when they have done all what they can on their side, and need our feed back and experience to fine tune everything.

They can't just hotfix nerf this or that every time the whiners call some thing OP, they also have to wait to see, if it's indeed OP, or just new and people have to adjust their game play.

Don't worry though, I'm sure all those Dev have a good flame proof jacket and are used to forum trolls and flamers

Edited by Zolthar, 16 January 2013 - 08:13 AM.

[Wraith05]

If you had to pay to play this game I would agree with your assessment. But since the game is playable, and you don't have to pay to play it I think open beta is just fine.

People can try the game out, see what they like and buy MC if they like the game and want to make the investment. If they try it and don't like it then they can save their MC and not put a cent toward the game until things are fixed/to the state they will like it.

There are some people where the game will never be in a state where they like it.

[Joseph Mallan]

After watching that zero point on what it takes to make an MMO, I understand why the DEVs did what they are doing. Apparently they don't have 50Mill sitting in the bank to pay for making this game, so they have come to the public to raise the capital needed.

Sometimes I wonder if it might not be better to just sell their soul that to expect understanding from the gamer community.

[Vassago Rain]

They made the (accurate) observation that the giant robots fighting parts were good enough for the general public.
They made the silly decision to push it at a time when they were updating the engine, and the netcode somehow got worse, DX11 got delayed indefinitely, it seemed certain we weren't gonna get any bug fixes done to the DX9 build...so on.

It's complicated.

[Windies]

These forums were not always full of the vitriol that they are now. Constructive criticism was for the most part normal. As time went on the criticism was ignored, the problems that the criticism warned about happened, people offered more constructive criticism in the hopes of staving off more problems which was again ignored.

Do I think rude or non-constructive criticism is appropriate or right? No. It's going to happen though more and more the longer you ignore your so called testers, especially when they are being proven right by the mistakes being made.

I don't think that a good majority thinks PGI is lazy in the sense that they don't work, but rather lazy in the sense that they don't care or don't know the direction they want to go in and maybe don't possess the skill set required to get there. That's as polite as I can really put it.

[Thirdstar]

Wraith05, on 16 January 2013 - 08:13 AM, said:

If you had to pay to play this game I would agree with your assessment. But since the game is playable, and you don't have to pay to play it I think open beta is just fine.

People can try the game out, see what they like and buy MC if they like the game and want to make the investment. If they try it and don't like it then they can save their MC and not put a cent toward the game until things are fixed/to the state they will like it.

There are some people where the game will never be in a state where they like it.

So what you're saying is that everyone should lower their standards because the game is F2P and everyone volunteered to spend money on it? Wonderful. And people wonder why buggy games are the norm across the industry these days.

[Thirdstar]

Windies, on 16 January 2013 - 08:15 AM, said:

These forums were not always full of the vitriol that they are now. Constructive criticism was for the most part normal. As time went on the criticism was ignored, the problems that the criticism warned about happened, people offered more constructive criticism in the hopes of staving off more problems which was again ignored.

Do I think rude or non-constructive criticism is appropriate or right? No. It's going to happen though more and more the longer you ignore your so called testers, especially when they are being proven right by the mistakes being made.

I don't think that a good majority thinks PGI is lazy in the sense that they don't work, but rather lazy in the sense that they don't care or don't know the direction they want to go in and maybe don't possess the skill set required to get there. That's as polite as I can really put it.

This man speaks the truth.

[Roughneck45]

Thirdstar, on 16 January 2013 - 08:17 AM, said:

So what you're saying is that everyone should lower their standards because the game is F2P and everyone volunteered to spend money on it? Wonderful. And people wonder why buggy games are the norm across the industry these days.

Go play something to your "standards" then.

Essentailly, all you are doing is standing over the devs shoulders, berating them for their work, and then telling people that all your vitriol is helping them.

Edited by Roughneck45, 16 January 2013 - 08:21 AM.

[Dishevel]

Zolthar, on 16 January 2013 - 08:13 AM, said:

Take the ECM, I think it's the new target for their anger.
Before the ECM was the Artemis.
Before the Artemis it was the DHS that were OP at 2.0
Before DHS it was the LRM

I remember seeing many posts about wanting to have DHS outside of the engines to be 2.0
I do not remember them being 2.0

[Noth]

Windies, on 16 January 2013 - 08:15 AM, said:

These forums were not always full of the vitriol that they are now. Constructive criticism was for the most part normal. As time went on the criticism was ignored, the problems that the criticism warned about happened, people offered more constructive criticism in the hopes of staving off more problems which was again ignored.

Do I think rude or non-constructive criticism is appropriate or right? No. It's going to happen though more and more the longer you ignore your so called testers, especially when they are being proven right by the mistakes being made.

I don't think that a good majority thinks PGI is lazy in the sense that they don't work, but rather lazy in the sense that they don't care or don't know the direction they want to go in and maybe don't possess the skill set required to get there. That's as polite as I can really put it.

You do know that up in the patch feedback area there is a lot more constructive posts and threads than down here in the general area. The general area has always been pretty much a cesspool, (most other games it becomes a cesspool as well). They know the direction they want to go, we just often disagree with that direction

[Windies]

Thontor, on 16 January 2013 - 08:19 AM, said:

What he said^

Congratulations, you just likened PGI/IGP to Goodwill.

[Jacmac]

I'm sure the devs in the trenches are working long hours to get things done, they shouldn't take the forum's complaints to heart. Really the complaints come from what the priorities are more than anything else. It is a priority from someone to get the new Spider mech out and new paint schemes vs fixing matchmaking and bringing out more maps (or at least it sure looks that way). That 'someone' is where the forum is trying to direct their complaints.

[Windies]

Noth, on 16 January 2013 - 08:22 AM, said:

You do know that up in the patch feedback area there is a lot more constructive posts and threads than down here in the general area. The general area has always been pretty much a cesspool, (most other games it becomes a cesspool as well). They know the direction they want to go, we just often disagree with that direction

I remember back when there wasn't a patch feedback area. This forum turned into a cess pool long before the patch feedback area got opened up.

[Thirdstar]

Noth, on 16 January 2013 - 08:22 AM, said:

You do know that up in the patch feedback area there is a lot more constructive posts and threads than down here in the general area. The general area has always been pretty much a cesspool, (most other games it becomes a cesspool as well). They know the direction they want to go, we just often disagree with that direction

Ah, so all the things people have asked clarification about can be found in those thread? ECM, Matchmaker, CW, Heat, everything?

[Noth]

Jacmac, on 16 January 2013 - 08:25 AM, said:

I'm sure the devs in the trenches are working long hours to get things done, they shouldn't take the forum's complaints to heart. Really the complaints come from what the priorities are more than anything else. It is a priority from someone to get the new Spider mech out and new paint schemes vs fixing matchmaking and bringing out more maps (or at least it sure looks that way). That 'someone' is where the forum is trying to direct their complaints.

Different teams have different priorities. You aren't going to tell the people working on the mechs to stop work until netcode is fixed. You aren't going to make the cockpit item designers stop working just because the maps are created as fast. Different things get finished at different times and speeds regardless of an overarching priority..

Edited by Noth, 16 January 2013 - 08:28 AM.

[Tuku]

Im not sure it's a bad thing....The devs who are working on the code depend on garth and his team to collect data...they aren't the ones who are supposed to be looking at the forums. The Community guys who are paid to collect data from the forums are supposed to be looking at the forums.