168 replies to this topic

[Egomane]

Purplefluffybunny, on 16 January 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

No matter how politely or nicely asked it was still a request that could not be refused due to the fear and threat of legal prosecution and job security.

Now you are being silly. Sorry!
If they refused, there could have been the revocal of their licence. If PGI demanded a drop of the project, that would have been likely been the case. There was no demand made, it was politly asked. That is a very big difference. If the license holders agreed to it, then they did it of their own free will. No one put a gun (or worse: a lawyer) at their head and forced them.

I understand, that some of the developers don't agree with the decision and are now looking for someone to blame besides their own co-developers. It still doesn't make PGI the bad guys in this.

[Purplefluffybunny]

Egomane, on 16 January 2013 - 11:29 AM, said:

Now you are being silly. Sorry!
If they refused, there could have been the revocal of their licence. If PGI demanded a drop of the project, that would have been likely been the case. There was no demand made, it was politly asked. That is a very big difference. If the license holders agreed to it, then they did it of their own free will. No one put a gun (or worse: a lawyer) at their head and forced them.

I understand, that some of the developers don't agree with the decision and are now looking for someone to blame besides their own co-developers. It still doesn't make PGI the bad guys in this.

We can agree that PGI asked the licensees to stop development of MWLL even though they themselves do not work on its development? Some developers that do work on the project continue to want to do so. It is clear who the prime mover is when it comes to development of MWLL stopping. Granted, a bit billiard ball like causation but pretty solid in terms of a truth statement, non?

Edited by Purplefluffybunny, 16 January 2013 - 11:34 AM.

[Dirus Nigh]

Prosperity Park, on 16 January 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

*cough*CounterStrike*cough*cough*

OK I hear ya. I honestly never played counter strike so I forget that it is around.

[Cik]

Egomane, on 16 January 2013 - 11:29 AM, said:

Now you are being silly. Sorry!
If they refused, there could have been the revocal of their licence. If PGI demanded a drop of the project, that would have been likely been the case. There was no demand made, it was politly asked. That is a very big difference. If the license holders agreed to it, then they did it of their own free will. No one put a gun (or worse: a lawyer) at their head and forced them.

I understand, that some of the developers don't agree with the decision and are now looking for someone to blame besides their own co-developers. It still doesn't make PGI the bad guys in this.

it was not the fault of the human that shoves the dominoes, merely the next domino in line that causes this one to fall!

[Egomane]

Purplefluffybunny, on 16 January 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

We can agree that PGI asked the licensees to stop development of MWLL even though they themselves do not work on its development?

Yes, we can agree to that!

Purplefluffybunny, on 16 January 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

Some developers that do work on the project continue to want to do so.

They could try to get themself a non-profit license and, with the permission of Kamikazi and Criminal, continue working on the project. So far it doesn't look like they even thought of it, or that Kami and Criminal already told them that they wouldn't agree.

Purplefluffybunny, on 16 January 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

It is clear who the prime mover is when it comes to development of MWLL stopping. Granted, a bit billiard ball like causation but pretty solid in terms of a truth statement, non?

Enough to investigate further. Not enough to hold up before a court.

[Jakob Knight]

Dirus Nigh, on 16 January 2013 - 11:03 AM, said:

George Lucas would have never done this. People rant and rave about what he did with/to Star Wars. However no matter what you think about the movies you can always admire and respect Lucas for his appreciation and support of his fans. There are a ton of fan created content for his IP. It could be an industry with in it'self. Yet Lucas let fans do what ever they wanted. They made movies, comics, videos, artwork, mods of other games almost as in depth as MWLL. Yet he let them all do it because he new they loved his IP. He let people do it so long as they did not profit or plagiarize his IP.

You know, I was thinking of how much this reminded me of what happened to Star Wars Galaxies, and then I read the above. Perhaps Dirus is unaware that it was the pulling of the license by Lucasfilm that killed SWG (apparently quoted as "to prevent confusion among MMO players") in favor of SWTOR. So, yes, he would. He has.

And it's a sad day anytime a corporation has to resort to these kind of tactics.

[Purplefluffybunny]

Egomane, just to jest, if I were going to go silly on speculation I would say this...

*<user>Russ has entered the channel*
Russ: So yeah guys, how are you doin?
Kamikazi: OK, thanks.
Criminal: Good, waht's up?
Russ: Oh nothing just seeing how you guys are doing.
Russ:....so you know we kinda have exclusive rights to BT IP, including non-commercial rights?
Criminal: Yeah.....?
Russ: Oh thing is we really care for the BT community and think we need to unify it...
Russ: and well, can you stop working on MWLL? Say did I mention we have all these rights, you must have heard me on NGNG the other day?
Kamikazi: Dude!?! WTF!
Russ: AFK 5 mins, pizza man is here.


It really went down like that.

EDIT: Ego, surely agreeing to the first statement means by implication, this time, that we agree on who initiated the development of mwll ceasing i.e. the prime mover? I think you will find it does

Edited by Purplefluffybunny, 16 January 2013 - 11:55 AM.

[Egomane]

Cik, on 16 January 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

oh please. the words are there plain as day. whether you refuse to remove your blinders is your own concern.

That is what I did ... I removed any blinders that would keep me from the facts.

I do not read between the lines, because if it is not in plain text, it is interpretation, that is always clouded by pre-judgement. I do not want to believe either side to be right or wrong. I want to know the truth.

Purplefluffybunny, on 16 January 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

Egomane, just to jest, if I were going to go silly on speculation I would say this...

*<user>Russ has entered the channel*
Russ: So yeah guys, how are you doin?
Kamikazi: OK, thanks.
Criminal: Good, waht's up?
Russ: Oh nothing just seeing how you guys are doing.
Russ:....so you know we kinda have exclusive rights to BT IP, including non-commercial rights?
Criminal: Yeah.....?
Russ: Oh thing is we really care for the BT community and think we need to unify it...
Russ: and well, can you stop working on MWLL? Say did I mention we have all these rights, you must have heard me on NGNG the other day?
Kamikazi: Dude!?! WTF!
Russ: AFK 5 mins, pizza man is here.


It really went down like that.

That isn't asking politly anymore. That's more like harrasment.

Purplefluffybunny, on 16 January 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

EDIT: Ego, surely agreeing to the first statement means by, implication this time, that we agree on who initiated the development of mwll ceasing i.e. the prime mover? I think you will find it dows

Yes, PGI made the first step. I agreed to that, PGI agreed to that (by the post of Russ in the other thread). It still wasn't their fault for it being shut down. Both sides were part of it.

If I ask you to gift me a thousend dollars and you agree, it is not my fault that you are now thousend dollars poorer. You could have declined.

Edited by Egomane, 16 January 2013 - 11:59 AM.

[Solis Obscuri]

Wow, Battletech implodes due to legal issues?

I CANNOT BELIVE!!!

*sigh*

[bug3at3r]

...so far I see nothing but he said she said, therefore it's no longer interesting and pointless to blindly follow sides much less argue over.

Edited by bug3at3r, 16 January 2013 - 12:20 PM.

[Bloodycrow]

Quote

At GDC 2012 ... I asked him "why are we splitting the community at this point?"

in March of 2012, Russ approached MWLL leadership with concerns about split community.

Quote

each time a feature was added to MWLL that was in MWO it felt as though we were doubling up effort

Russ thinks that MWLL was adding features that already existed in MWO.

Quote

I ... asked him how we might meld the two communities better and even look to possibly hire on any great talent what was in that project.

Russ was seeking to "meld" the two communities and directly acquire talent from MWLL.

Quote

After the show he contacted me expressing that they really wanted to finish what they started with MWLL and had a set of features that they would like to get done and asked if that was okay with PGI.

MWLL leadership stated it wants to finish their work, asked PGI if it's "okay" to finish a set of features.


I think it's pretty obvious that there was some aggressive posturing by PGI. You can say that both sides were part of the "agreement", but you can't say it wasn't their fault for it being shut down.

[mekabuser]

scoff... u can try and justify pgis actions all you want but dont try and bs us. If it wasnt for pgi, mwll would have happily continued doing what it was doing for a long time.
anything else is just bs , plain and simple.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Has everybody seen this?

http://mwomercs.com/...mwll-situation/

Quote

As you all saw the news about Mechwarrior: Living Legends, Russ wanted to give an answer to the community.
To make sure you don't miss it, here is the link to his post:

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1748351

Russ Bullock said:

Hey Everyone,

I know you haven't seen much of me lately, was pretty busy with the holiday season and a new baby in the family. I hope you will see more of me on the forums and in game soon.

Here is what I know.

Did we send a cease and desist letter? no we did not.

At GDC 2012 I met with the mod leadership which of course happens to work at Crytek so we see each other pretty much every trade show, great guy. At this GDC in casual unscripted conversation I asked him "why are we splitting the community at this point?" We both realized that the MWLL community was small and it really wasn't competing with MWO but still each time a feature was added to MWLL that was in MWO it felt as though we were doubling up effort to restore this great brand.

I expressed that we were not trying to shut anyone down but asked him how we might meld the two communities better and even look to possibly hire on any great talent what was in that project. ( Hey MWLL guys send in those resumes ) For a long time the IP was in the wind and MWLL is one of those games that really kept MW on peoples minds so the project and the individuals have our up most respect.

We discussed this topic for a little while but again it was friendly and there was no threats of shutting the mod down just more of a sense of "Why are we doubling up efforts here?". After the show he contacted me expressing that they really wanted to finish what they started with MWLL and had a set of features that they would like to get done and asked if that was okay with PGI. They presented a very professional plan on the remaining work they wanted to complete and stated after that it would be time to stop production on MWLL. I thanked them for the plan and said that it all sounded great.

Now today's news comes and I can only assume that this last patch represents the final features from that presentation they gave me. I will reach out to my MWLL contact and confirm that this is true and have a conversation, if there are any updates we will let you know.

Again there was no combative relationship between MWO and MWLL, nor was there a cease and desist letter given.

Thanks.

[Listless Nomad]

I already posted that here PP :-P

[Egomane]

A repost doesn't hurt in this case.

Or do you want me to edit PPs post?

Edited by Egomane, 16 January 2013 - 01:40 PM.

[Lima Zulu]

Prosperity Park, on 16 January 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

Like I said, BattleTech is an established IP that people own. If somebody had made a game called WalkingTanks: Living Legends, then nothing would have happened to it.

Personally I'd better have mechwarrior game called WalkingTanks than walking tanks game called mechwarrior...

Anyway, sooner or later it would happen... I believe, it was inevitable.
At least, it wasn't so bad as what happened with Star Wars Galaxies - there are servers to play still, enthusiast players still can develop new maps and use on servers.

[Listless Nomad]

Egomane, on 16 January 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

A repost doesn't hurt in this case.

Or do you want me to edit PPs post?

Lol true. I don't know what I wanted. A long day on the forums has made my mind go loopy :-P

[Ghogiel]

Guys. What you are reading is called damage control.

[Dirus Nigh]

Jakob Knight, on 16 January 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

You know, I was thinking of how much this reminded me of what happened to Star Wars Galaxies, and then I read the above. Perhaps Dirus is unaware that it was the pulling of the license by Lucasfilm that killed SWG (apparently quoted as "to prevent confusion among MMO players") in favor of SWTOR. So, yes, he would. He has.

And it's a sad day anytime a corporation has to resort to these kind of tactics.

Star Wars Galaxies was a licensed game being ran by a big company, Sony. It was not a fan creation made for fun and not profit. Such as a popular star wars battlefield mod that was hot at the time. That mod inspired Star Wars Battlefront.

Sony Online Entertainment completely changed the game and ruined it. They drove off almost all of the player base. I saw this first hand because I finally could afford the game the week after SOE did their game changing update.

Every player created city was a ghost town. I only found one or two player shops were the owner still updated them. Those guys closed down two weeks after I started playing. Shortly after than large cities like Moss Eisley were all but deserted. No this game was dying fast. Sure there are some die hard players, and yes Im aware of the EMU server. Lucas Arts made a business decision about a product that was dying. This is in now way the same thing as crushing a fan mod that was clearly a non-profit game.

It is true that Lucas Arts cancelled the license for SWG to focus all attention on SWTOL. Even with out Bioware creating a new star wars MMO it most likely would have been done any way. SOE tanked the game.

[Scar]

Prosperity Park, on 16 January 2013 - 01:36 PM, said:

Has everybody seen this?

http://mwomercs.com/...mwll-situation/

In the light of the features and content that has been planned, but now will never be released, it looks more like - "My father made him an offer he couldn't refuse." © Michael Corleone. Sorry, but i don't buy this story.

Quote

These are features, assets, and game-play mechanics that are at various stages of development but will never see the light of day due to recent events. We thought you, as our community, would like to know what you will not have just as much as you’d like to know what you will have. These items listed below were other milestones we planned to meet that we did not have time to finish by this final release but were notable based on our long-term goals. All of these items had substantial work done but were left incomplete.

Game Features:
- MechLab
- Aerospace HUD
- BattleArmor Claw
- Revised Buy Menu
- Revised Launch/Start menu
- User Selectable Ammo Types
- Full Damage/Impact sound set
- External Destructible Equipment Slots
- Finalized Internal Damage Components

Playable Assets:
- Kodiak
- Marauder
- Commando
- Schrek Tank
- APC variants
- Hunchback IIc
- Mobile Field Base
- Anhur Aerospace
- Xerxes Aerospace
- Kharnov Aerospace
- Svantovit Hovercraft
- Alacorn Assault Tank
- Commando Light ‘Mech
- Swiftwind Scout vehicle
- Corona Heavy Battle Armor
- Phalanx Heavy Battle Armor

Game Modes:
- Capture the Flag game mode
- Planetary Assault game mode
- Team Domination game mode

Maps:
- Cold Steel
- Scorched
- Palace Gates
- Cavernous
- Wildlands
- TC_Ascent
- TC_Breach
- TC_Clearcut
- TC_Enkeladus
- TC_Extremity
- TC_Harvest
- TC_IndustrialRiverbed
- TC_Ridgeline
- TC_Tremors
- SA_Vesuvius

Sound:
- In-game ambient music
- MWLL specific F-key radio dialog
- Unique sounds for each mech including ambience and movement/torso sounds
- Replacement sounds for every crysis weapon/asset
- Dialog for events: under 5:00 minutes, under 20 tickets, etc
- Replacement sound for all the subpar ticks, warnings, beeps, etc
- Elimination of sounds cutting out

Edited by Scar, 16 January 2013 - 02:56 PM.