293 replies to this topic

[Felix]

Grraarrgghh, on 16 January 2013 - 09:28 AM, said:

Apparently not taking video games seriously is fanboyism. Also it's spelt 'Boy' Avril.

Go look up Boi in urban dictionary, maybe then you will realize you were insulted and that it wasnt a misspelling, I am not holding out too much hope for your intelligence though.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Apparently some folks don't get sarcasm either Grar

[Grraarrgghh]

Felix, on 16 January 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

Go look up Boi in urban dictionary, maybe then you will realize you were insulted and that it wasnt a misspelling, I am not holding out too much hope for your intelligence though.

So calling me a *** male is an insult? You Americans sure are strange.

[Corvus Antaka]

More intelligent suggestions, less whine would be nice.

If PGI ignores the intelligent suggestions over their own ideas, it must be because their own ideas are expanding the player base and the game rapidly and we are all whining over nothing.

If the opposite is the case....well...then we know what the only other logical answer is.

[StalaggtIKE]

hammerreborn, on 16 January 2013 - 08:35 AM, said:

Cause clearly the people playing in group matches and not pugging are the misinformed people. Nope, has to be the people who agree with PGIs statement that ECM is working with intended that are the idiots and not the sniveling brats that post ECM is broken 5000 times because they got killed by a raven or saw more than one in a game. OH MY GOD THERE WAS 2 RAVENS, ECM IS BROKEN FIX IT PGI OR I QUIT

No. A person that thinks BAP counters ECM is misinformed.

Lukoi, on 16 January 2013 - 08:40 AM, said:

Don't they do that sort of thing via Command Chair Forums?

And secondly, they don't owe us feedback. At all. Ever. I'm glad that we get some but the sense of entitlement is misplaced. It's better PR to "feed the beast" so to speak with information from the Dev perspective but its not required. And it certainly doesn't need to be in the form of open threads that invite non-constructive debate which inevitably overshadows healthy constructive debate on these types of forums.

So, closed threads with minor, periodic updates are what we get. But some folks are entirely too impatient and expect there to be daily (if not more often) feedback and commentary from the Devs.

Personally...I think a bugs forum and the occasional highly moderated feedback forum on very specific balance issues or suggestions would work better than the current vent/rant nonsense we see on most gaming forums, this one being no exception.

It had been over 4 weeks since we heard anything from the Command Chair. A paying customer does not deserve any feedback about their concerns? I guess that explains why I am no longer a paying customer.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 16 January 2013 - 09:46 AM.

[Woky]

StalaggtIKE, on 16 January 2013 - 09:42 AM, said:

It had been over 4 weeks since we heard anything from the Command Chair. A paying customer does not deserve any feedback about their concerns? I guess that explains why I am no longer a paying customer.

I see the last post as yesterday. Maybe its an update or an edit of an old post I didn't double check but it was changed yesterday for sure.

[Serapth]

We all understand that this beta is a work in progress.

It's just, we've stop seeing work, or progress since the ECM patch, and to a great many of us, that patch certainly wasn't progress. During it all, their communication levels went to hell, especially when they evaded all the ECM questions completely.

Thus the source of a lot of the animosity. This is compounded by the fact things used to iterate MUCH MUCH MUCH faster during closed beta. Now we are waiting a month+ for the smallest tweaks and fixes. While the biggest things we are all waiting for... netcode, matchmaking, new actual content, gets pushed further and further back. CW is just a myth at this point in time.

Insult to injury, we sure do seem to be getting a lot of updates that make money, like hero mechs, paint schemes and eye candy. It's easy to start questioning priorities, when the people that should be working on levels are instead churning out cash grabs.

Then again, with the membership of this thread so far, I expect very little actual conversation on the subject.

Edited by Serapth, 16 January 2013 - 09:53 AM.

[StalaggtIKE]

Woky, on 16 January 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

I see the last post as yesterday. Maybe its an update or an edit of an old post I didn't double check but it was changed yesterday for sure.

That's why I said it had been. Emphasis on had. HAD. Yes I am aware we finally got an update out of them the day of patch. Yet nothing concerning some major issues, that apparently a lot of people that post here, would like to hear about.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 16 January 2013 - 09:55 AM.

[Grraarrgghh]

Serapth, on 16 January 2013 - 09:51 AM, said:

We all understand that this beta is a work in progress.

It's just, we've stop seeing work, or progress since the ECM patch, and to a great many of us, that patch certainly wasn't progress. During it all, their communication levels went to hell, especially when they evaded all the ECM questions completely.

Thus the source of a lot of the animosity. This is compounded by the fact things used to iterate MUCH MUCH MUCH faster during closed beta. Now we are waiting a month+ for the smallest tweaks and fixes. While the biggest things we are all waiting for... netcode, matchmaking, new actual content, gets pushed further and further back. CW is just a myth at this point in time.

Insult to injury, we sure do seem to be getting a lot of updates that make money, like hero mechs, paint schemes and eye candy. It's easy to start questioning priorities, when the people that should be working on levels are instead churning out cash grabs.

Then again, with the membership of this thread so far, I expect very little actual conversation on the subject.

Yeah because the forums weren't terrible BEFORE the ECM patch.

Also, I'm the worlds handsomest millionaire.

[InRev]

Grraarrgghh, on 16 January 2013 - 08:00 AM, said:

Everything has been addressed and has proposed changes other than ECM, which PGI and most competitive players believe is fine.

Everyone who cries about ECM is a baby who hasn't played a competitive round in their life.

I don't usually (read: ever) post on the forums, but this statement concerned me enough to actually log in.

Am I the only one who thinks it's not necessarily the best idea to balance a game around the opinions of the hardcore, e-sport gaming elite? Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against elitism itself, but considering the fact that the vast majority of a game's player base (and thus the source of the money) is not, in fact, those who play tournaments, I'm not convinced that "competitive" players are the demographic to which devs should be catering.

Min-maxers can always make the best out of game balance, but stupid puggers such as myself are not usually as adept. When we stupid puggers are turned off by game mechanics, we leave because, well, why play if we don't have fun? When we leave, the money dries up. I understand that dedicated, intelligent, skilled and organized players can quite easily counter ECM or whatever the FOTM game balance issue may be. Hell, a dual gauss barrage into a Raven does wonders. However, the majority of matches (and thus the majority of actual gameplay experience for most players) is not contested by dedicated, intelligent, skilled or organized players. It is the stinking, snivelling masses that forms the bulk of a gaming community so, yeah, they may be whining idiots, but they're whining idiots with wallets.

To point, upon reading the patch notes for this latest update, and seeing not only no ECM changes, no energy weapon changes, and no notable netcode fixes, but the addition of an ECM mech for which the devs included a disclaimer regarded the fact that it doesn't perform well with the netcode, my first reaction was "welp, I'm playing Anno 2070 I guess".

I do not for a second that the game should be dumbed down to the point of auto-aim or free-streaks-for-everybody, but I do think that there is a wide expanse of middle ground that will be missed by looking primarily to 8-man drops for feedback when the entire rest of the community is practically apoplectic about an issue. Obviously, I do not know for certain what the dev's feedback prioritization schema actually is, but rhetorically, the 1% should not be the first choice, but rather a choice.

TL;DR, "competitive players" should not be the preferred feedback source due to their niche nature.

Am I out of think with this reasoning?

[Rannos]

InRev, on 16 January 2013 - 09:58 AM, said:

Am I out of think with this reasoning?

Yes.

[Josef Nader]

Serapth, on 16 January 2013 - 09:51 AM, said:

Insult to injury, we sure do seem to be getting a lot of updates that make money, like hero mechs, paint schemes and eye candy. It's easy to start questioning priorities, when the people that should be working on levels are instead churning out cash grabs.

Because a 3D modeler and animator can do lots to help improve netcode, or improve the programming. Their art team and their programming team are two entirely different entities with their own goals and priorities. Neither side can do anything to speed the other along. You do not have to playtest a new mech skin. You don't have to go over every square inch of a hero mech with a fine toothed comb looking for the place where you forgot to dot your i. Those things can be moved into production very quickly and easily using existing tools. The problems we're having are with the game's code base, not the art assets, ergo their priorities are exactly where they need to be. Their programming team is busting their butts to try and fix the problems we're having. The art team is busting their butts to add new content to the game.

[StalaggtIKE]

Grraarrgghh, on 16 January 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

Yeah because the forums weren't terrible BEFORE the ECM patch.

Also, I'm the worlds handsomest millionaire.

Please reread. he was referring to the progress of the game, not the forums. *slaps forehead*

[Congzilla]

Josef Nader, on 16 January 2013 - 10:04 AM, said:

Because a 3D modeler and animator can do lots to help improve netcode, or improve the programming. Their art team and their programming team are two entirely different entities with their own goals and priorities. Neither side can do anything to speed the other along. You do not have to playtest a new mech skin. You don't have to go over every square inch of a hero mech with a fine toothed comb looking for the place where you forgot to dot your i. Those things can be moved into production very quickly and easily using existing tools. The problems we're having are with the game's code base, not the art assets, ergo their priorities are exactly where they need to be. Their programming team is busting their butts to try and fix the problems we're having. The art team is busting their butts to add new content to the game.

Take your common sense someplace else, it has no power here.

[Serapth]

Josef Nader, on 16 January 2013 - 10:04 AM, said:

Because a 3D modeler and animator can do lots to help improve netcode, or improve the programming. Their art team and their programming team are two entirely different entities with their own goals and priorities. Neither side can do anything to speed the other along. You do not have to playtest a new mech skin. You don't have to go over every square inch of a hero mech with a fine toothed comb looking for the place where you forgot to dot your i. Those things can be moved into production very quickly and easily using existing tools. The problems we're having are with the game's code base, not the art assets, ergo their priorities are exactly where they need to be. Their programming team is busting their butts to try and fix the problems we're having. The art team is busting their butts to add new content to the game.

You really ought to have read my post better... in fact, had you quoted a bit further...

Quote

Insult to injury, we sure do seem to be getting a lot of updates that make money, like hero mechs, paint schemes and eye candy. It's easy to start questioning priorities, when the people that should be working on levels are instead churning out cash grabs.

This has nothing to do with programmers. Artists churn out art, be it textures for levels, meshes for levels, hell... level design in smaller shops. Instead these resources are being put towards cash grabs, or so it seems. It IS the same pool of people, this has nothing to do with the programming team.

StalaggtIKE, on 16 January 2013 - 10:08 AM, said:

Please reread. he was referring to the progress of the game, not the forums. *slaps forehead*

This, including the facepalm.

[Felix]

Josef Nader, on 16 January 2013 - 10:04 AM, said:

Because a 3D modeler and animator can do lots to help improve netcode, or improve the programming. Their art team and their programming team are two entirely different entities with their own goals and priorities. Neither side can do anything to speed the other along. You do not have to playtest a new mech skin. You don't have to go over every square inch of a hero mech with a fine toothed comb looking for the place where you forgot to dot your i. Those things can be moved into production very quickly and easily using existing tools. The problems we're having are with the game's code base, not the art assets, ergo their priorities are exactly where they need to be. Their programming team is busting their butts to try and fix the problems we're having. The art team is busting their butts to add new content to the game.

Instead of hero mechs, paint schemes, and bobble heads we could use a couple of new maps...

That kinda thing is squarely in the art departments lap.

[mekabuser]

Josef Nader, on 16 January 2013 - 08:03 AM, said:

I don't think I could present a more complete list of why the devs don't waste every minute responding to every whiny thread on this forum.

No , but they should stop in and look at them, They might learn something. THe majority of the threads are there for a reason.
THe pace of development of this game has been abysmal, in conjunction with their lack of will to fill key positions is shameful.
Furthermore, unless they have 15 maps completed , ready to go, they are borderline incompetent at creating content.
Clan invasion? star map? a "universe" with 6 maps? lmao.

GUess what?, compared to the mwll devs, these guys are lacking. Its not "battletech fans" or whatnot, because there is a completely different ratio on the mwll boards.
90% Praise, 10 % qq.... the opposite of here...
Why is the question pgi should be asking itself.

[Grraarrgghh]

I didn't know map guys were the same guys who did animations, skinning, mech modelling etc.

You have a very strange view of how game development works.

Slapping a name on it like "Art Department" doesn't give everyone in it magical skills to create anything "art" related.

I can play a shitton of instruments, but that doesn't mean I could play a trumpet to save my life.

Edited by Grraarrgghh, 16 January 2013 - 10:15 AM.

[Josef Nader]

Actually, no. Your environmental artists have very little to do with your modelers. They're both on the art team, sure, but just because someone can model and animate a 3D stompy robot, or a big rock or building doesn't mean they can make a massive, realistic looking piece of terrain for that model to run around on. Your level design crew is completely different from your art asset crew, and while they do work together you -still- don't have to playtest a new skin, a new 3D model, and you only need minimal playtesting with a new variant. It's all using existing code assets. New maps require -EXTENSIVE- playtesting to ensure that they're balanced, your players aren't going to fall through them because of a broken seam, to make sure that all of your lighting and environmental effects are consistent, etc. etc. etc.

They're two grossly different things, and you're -still- completely wrong.

[Felix]

Grraarrgghh, on 16 January 2013 - 10:14 AM, said:

I didn't know map guys were the same guys who did animations, skinning, mech modelling etc.

You have a very strange view of how game development works.

I didnt know guys who skin and model mechs couldnt skin or model a building, a tree (or animate said tree), or what have you.

You have a very strange view of how art works.