An Awesome You Can Truly Fear
#21
Posted 17 January 2013 - 05:17 PM
I think the Awesome will make a comeback when we have drop weights to worry about in Community Warfare, that's if they do put in drop weight limitations for missions.
#22
Posted 17 January 2013 - 05:20 PM
Jaded's AWS-8R has the exact same guns (in smaller quantities) and fewer heatsinks than my STK-5S, but has a higher "Max Sustained DPS." That is literally un-possible.
AWS-8R vs STK-5S
Ravennus, on 17 January 2013 - 05:15 PM, said:
I still like the 5S, but I use the dual AMS as that is it's stand-out feature.
Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa.
Whoa.
Whoa.
The STK-3F has a better twist range than the STK-5S? (You can tell I've been out of the loop for a couple weeks)
#23
Posted 17 January 2013 - 05:27 PM
Vlad Ward, on 17 January 2013 - 05:20 PM, said:
I believe the key is max SUSTAINED DPS.
His awesome build has half as many medium lasers than your build.
Even though you have 3 more DHS, the idea with that calculation.... is that if you were both standing still and firing alpha strikes non-stop at something and landing every hit, what would your DPS be when heat was factored in?
With 3 extra MLAS, I think you would overheat before he would, so he would get a few more shots in while you were powered down.
In action this almost never happens though, and your are right.... your build would likely put out more damage if played correctly.
Vlad Ward, on 17 January 2013 - 05:20 PM, said:
Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa.
Whoa.
Whoa.
The STK-3F has a better twist range than the STK-5S? (You can tell I've been out of the loop for a couple weeks)
Yuppers!
Check Smurfy's stats for the 3F. It has an 85 degree Torso Twist range opposed to the 60 degrees of all the other Stalker models. That is it's unique advantage and why I like it for the up close brawler builds.
Edited by Ravennus, 17 January 2013 - 05:27 PM.
#24
Posted 17 January 2013 - 05:32 PM
Ravennus, on 17 January 2013 - 05:24 PM, said:
I believe the key is max SUSTAINED DPS.
His awesome build has half as many medium lasers than your build.
Even though you have 3 more DHS, the idea with that calculation.... is that if you were both standing still and firing alpha strikes non-stop at something and landing every hit, what would your DPS be when heat was factored in?
With 3 extra MLAS, I think you would overheat before he would, so he would get a few more shots in while you were powered down.
In action this almost never happens though, and your are right.... your build would likely put out more damage if played correctly.
That's what I mean. I think they're assuming some sort of Alpha-only whosits in their calculations, which makes no sense in a sustainable DPS model. Running the calculations myself, it seems the STK-5S's maximum sustained DPS is closer to 9.52. All faith is lost .
But yes, you were saying about torso twists? I hadn't heard this before so I just want to confirm this is for real before I re-buy a 3F.
Edited by Vlad Ward, 17 January 2013 - 05:33 PM.
#25
Posted 17 January 2013 - 05:45 PM
Vlad Ward, on 17 January 2013 - 05:32 PM, said:
But yes, you were saying about torso twists? I hadn't heard this before so I just want to confirm this is for real before I re-buy a 3F.
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/
Just scroll down until you get to the Stalker variants.
Smurfy includes the various ranges of the torso and arms in the list, all of which is compiled from the game files.
3F gets 85 degrees.
Vlad Ward, on 17 January 2013 - 05:32 PM, said:
That's what I mean. I think they're assuming some sort of Alpha-only whosits in their calculations, which makes no sense in a sustainable DPS model. Running the calculations myself, it seems the STK-5S's maximum sustained DPS is closer to 9.52. All faith is lost .
Why is your faith lost? I don't understand.
How are you running your calculations?
#26
Posted 17 January 2013 - 05:45 PM
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...71fab76c775d616
Since others are talking about them... My current 3F that I like a fair bit.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...33a622880a32324
Edited by DeathGuardOO14, 17 January 2013 - 05:56 PM.
#27
Posted 17 January 2013 - 06:00 PM
Ravennus, on 17 January 2013 - 05:45 PM, said:
How are you running your calculations?
Sustainable DPS is easy, especially since SRMs and MLs fire on the same cycle. Quad SRM6 and 6MLs generate 16+24=40 heat every time they fire. A mech with 22 DHS and Master level efficiencies dissipates [ (0.2 * 10) + (0.14 * 12) ] * 1.15 = 4.23 heat per second.
It takes (40/4.23) or 9.45 seconds to dissipate the heat generated by an Alpha. An Alpha does 90 damage. 90 Damage every 9.45 seconds is ~9.52 DPS.
#28
Posted 17 January 2013 - 06:07 PM
Either way, I've found that DPS calculations in any game are largely impractical... and especially in this game.
I don't doubt that you would get a lot more DPS with your build if played right, as I said before.
I definitely recommend the 3F though, if you aren't using those 2 AMS spots on the 5S. Did you find the info on Smurfy's website?
#29
Posted 17 January 2013 - 06:12 PM
Ravennus, on 17 January 2013 - 06:07 PM, said:
Either way, I've found that DPS calculations in any game are largely impractical... and especially in this game.
I don't doubt that you would get a lot more DPS with your build if played right, as I said before.
I definitely recommend the 3F though, if you aren't using those 2 AMS spots on the 5S. Did you find the info on Smurfy's website?
Indeed I did! Thanks for the heads up. I just finished kitting out my new STK-3F and am very much enjoying my extra 50 degrees of twist.
#30
Posted 17 January 2013 - 06:27 PM
Vlad Ward, on 17 January 2013 - 04:57 PM, said:
I've got a Stalker S with SRMs and MLs myself, and I actually like the awesome better:
- More maneuverable, and easier to ambush with.
- Awesomes can effectively arm block.
- The Stalker's 60' torso twist range is a /huge/ problem when brawling, though the Stalker F doesn't have this issue.
- Extra module slot is nice, although the Awesome-R also only has one. :-(
- The Stalker S I tried had trouble mounting Artemis SRMs, and I had to drop down to two SRM 6s and two 4s to make everything fit.
- I find it easier to leg Stalkers than Awesomes -- those stodgy legs are huge!
I don't do nearly as well with the Stalker S, though I have yet to try an F which might be better due to its 85' increase torso twist range.
#31
Posted 17 January 2013 - 06:42 PM
Vlad Ward, on 17 January 2013 - 05:20 PM, said:
That's likely just because it's assuming you're firing all your medium lasers. Were you to back off on the lasers and still fire the SRMs full time you'd do better due to more sinks of course.
On the other hand:
- Artemis isn't accounted for, and it definitely increases your punch -- missiles hitting spots that don't kill are effectively wasted. I'd guess that's probably worth a couple of MLs (Maybe 30 damage to the center component hit instead of 20?) and ammo saved to boot.
- There's enough punch with either that brawls are typically over before heat is much of an issue, so the extra your 36.8 dissipation vs. my 32.6 helps but isn't huge.
- Honestly speaking, you're firing 6xML fairly frequently, aren't you? I know I do in my STalker anyway! If you do it even once it eats into your long term DPS. Though the punch and range is often worth it of course!
#32
Posted 17 January 2013 - 11:49 PM
Edited by Helmstif, 18 January 2013 - 12:17 AM.
#33
Posted 18 January 2013 - 03:36 AM
I HATED the torso twist (range as well as speed), the thing was creepy slow. And I can dodge incoming attacks greatly with the arms on my Awesome. Plus the arms give you even more twist range to shoot. The awesome is just more agile. Gave up the S and kept the awesome.
I know the F has better torso twist but I think it's still not enough to beat my awesome (with the same setup).
I'm not saying the Stalker is a bad mech, it just didn't feel that good in this setup.
Edited by TexAss, 18 January 2013 - 03:42 AM.
#34
Posted 18 January 2013 - 08:27 AM
#35
#36
Posted 18 January 2013 - 04:17 PM
Second match on River City was a good one. I killed an Atlas, a Cataphract, and then a Stalker to close out the match. Brawling an Atlas makes me laugh. At first, they charge you face to face with no fear, then after the first alpha when components start flying off them, they stagger back a bit but then re-charge, when the second SRM salvo tears off an arm and turns them cherry red, they turn around and try to run away, LOL. Too bad the AWS is faster. One more SRM salvo and the big Atlas is face down smoldering. I love the 8R.
#37
Posted 18 January 2013 - 04:29 PM
#38
Posted 18 January 2013 - 04:44 PM
#39
Posted 18 January 2013 - 07:30 PM
NRP, on 18 January 2013 - 04:44 PM, said:
4 SRM6s is a cheese build for an 8R. It's the same as an A1 with 6SRM6s (or 6SRM4s with Arty) in my book but less effective. Maybe he should run 4SRM4s with Arty instead. That build has very little variety. I don't doubt its effectiveness but it's very limited in a tactical sense. You're dependent on your team to make up for it. That's why I call it cheese.
#40
Posted 18 January 2013 - 07:43 PM
Brown Hornet, on 18 January 2013 - 07:30 PM, said:
4 SRM6s is a cheese build for an 8R. It's the same as an A1 with 6SRM6s (or 6SRM4s with Arty) in my book but less effective. Maybe he should run 4SRM4s with Arty instead. That build has very little variety. I don't doubt its effectiveness but it's very limited in a tactical sense. You're dependent on your team to make up for it. That's why I call it cheese.
Dependent on your team? Isn't that the whole point of MWO? Of course you depend on your team because this thing's range is limited, but your team could also depend on you by luring enemy toward you and let you hulk-smash dem face. Limited in a tactical sense? B*tch please, the best tactic is the fastest way to kill enemies, and this babe does it right.
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