65 replies to this topic

[Mxxpower]

Serapth, on 17 January 2013 - 05:18 PM, said:

Yet there seems to be a certain overwhelming sense of entitlement, and worse, a disdain for said casual players amongst the more hardcore.

Because some groups consider themselves "winners"

and because of that... unfortunatly, they have to label another group "losers" to validate that claim


*It looks like the losers outnumber the winners 5 to 1

Edited by Mxxpower, 17 January 2013 - 05:23 PM.

[Zylo]

0%-10%
I usually play in 2, 3 or 4 player groups as I often play during off-peak hours. I really have no reason to launch without any sort of group as I usually have other members of my corp to drop with.

The current matchmaker issues are creating serious balance problems by not limiting teams to 1 pre-made group per side. This is the fault of PGI. It is not the fault of those who choose to run small groups as intended (meaning no sync-drops to get 2x groups of 4 on the same team).

[ArcLyght]

PUG 100%

[Zylo]

Mxxpower, on 17 January 2013 - 04:12 PM, said:

Bump for a decent poll, and showing the "MWO is for elite groups" people just who plays this game and how.

Isn't this poll just going to prove that most pug teams are getting stomped by other pug teams?

It certainly looks to be headed in that direction. I'm curious what the "Premades are ruining MWO" players are going to say about the results of this poll showing that most players drop solo (wasn't that already stated by devs back in closed beta in the old beta forums that no longer exist?).

Edited by Zylo, 17 January 2013 - 05:55 PM.

[Budor]

solo 60%
2man 39%
3-4man 1%

Edited by Budor, 17 January 2013 - 05:55 PM.

[BFett]

Does PUG = not 8 man team or just yourself with random people?

[Serapth]

BFett, on 17 January 2013 - 05:50 PM, said:

Does PUG = not 8 man team or just yourself with random people?

PUG means not grouped.

[Wraith05]

Mxxpower, on 17 January 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

bu.. bu... but the poles show that most people pug?

I was told in another thread that this game is for serious players that are meant to join clans and group up on teamspeak...

someone lied

Was also told that premades are so abundant that they are ruining the game and are in most pug matches. But if most forum goers pug 90-100% how can this be?

My answer was 41-50% since I pug 45-55% i lowballed it.

[Orgasmo]

Played about 400 matches so far, most of which were PUGS. When I was pugging I had alot more losses than wins, as well as more deaths than kills. Since I started using TS to communicate however, I win about 70% to 80% of my game, and average about 2 to 3 kills each game.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Serapth, on 17 January 2013 - 05:18 PM, said:

Yet there seems to be a certain overwhelming sense of entitlement, and worse, a disdain for said casual players amongst the more hardcore.

Are you under the impression that sense of entitlement and disdain isn't prevalent among the self-anointed in any game with a PvP aspect? I can honestly say after a couple decades of competitive play in a variety of genres, that has always been around and probably will always be. People feel like they can say whatever they want given the anonymity afforded them by the internet. MMO's, FPS, RTS games...doesn't matter. Elitists are almost always one of the "loud crowds" on forums etc. It feeds their ego....which is important because they tie alot of their self-esteem to their performance or perceived mastery of a video game.

I'm not saying hardcore, competitive types can't be reasonable people, open to debate etc. Far from it. I consider myself a competitive player and I've played in alot of games at a variety of competitive levels....but the ones who bash are a vocal minority imo.

Unfortunately, since they often make up the bulk of negativity in forums etc, they help drive off casuals...and doing so only hurts games imo. Solid companies learn to tune them out but there are limits. A game has to work if its going to keep its head above water in a sea of cranky "elitists."

[Lukoi Banacek]

Zylo, on 17 January 2013 - 05:50 PM, said:

Isn't this poll just going to prove that most pug teams are getting stomped by other pug teams?

It certainly looks to be headed in that direction. I'm curious what the "Premades are ruining MWO" players are going to say about the results of this poll showing that most players drop solo (wasn't that already stated by devs back in closed beta in the old beta forums that no longer exist?).

I doubt they address it at all. I don't believe this poll would be considered statistically valid to begin with. It's just an interesting tool to spark discussion more than anything else. The Devs can likely see composition of players in groups or singley anyway and know the actual statistical truth. We're all just throwing out anecdotal experiences and personal guesstimates. I'm not sure it's truly representative or accurate.

As someone mentioned earlier, some people might feel intimidated...too much so to admit they premade much more than they PUG for example...given the tone of this thread.

BFett, on 17 January 2013 - 05:50 PM, said:

Does PUG = not 8 man team or just yourself with random people?

Pick
Up
Group

[Panserbjorne]

I know I'm just beating a dead horse repeating this, but here goes:

I like premades
I like PUGs

Pair PUGs with PUGs and premades with premades.

Their need not be a seperation, but there needs to be parity.

If there are 4 pugs and a 4-pilot premade on 1 team, pair that with 4 pugs and a 4-pilot premade on the other (or two 2-pilot premades etc).

It's really simple (though I have no idea how simple the execution may or may not be) and I hope this is fixed really soon, because it's the one aspect of this game that really takes away the fun for me. I can deal with ECM and heat issues as long as I know that I have a fair shot at each match I drop into.

I really do think these two communities can coexist peacefully if given the chance. Ironically, by the matchmaker not differentiating between the two communities, the divide between them has only deepened.

[Cato Phoenix]

10-20%

[Kaspirikay]

i pug, like, almost all the time. Sometimes I drop with 2 rl friends but that rarely happens.

[Serapth]

Panserbjorne, on 17 January 2013 - 06:33 PM, said:

I know I'm just beating a dead horse repeating this, but here goes:

I like premades
I like PUGs

Pair PUGs with PUGs and premades with premades.

Their need not be a seperation, but there needs to be parity.

If there are 4 pugs and a 4-pilot premade on 1 team, pair that with 4 pugs and a 4-pilot premade on the other (or two 2-pilot premades etc).

It's really simple (though I have no idea how simple the execution may or may not be) and I hope this is fixed really soon, because it's the one aspect of this game that really takes away the fun for me. I can deal with ECM and heat issues as long as I know that I have a fair shot at each match I drop into.

I really do think these two communities can coexist peacefully if given the chance. Ironically, by the matchmaker not differentiating between the two communities, the divide between them has only deepened.

Dont worry, ive never heard a sane argument why there shouldn't be fairness in the matchmaker. I have however seen a lot of weird and generally weak justification why fairness is a bad thing.

[p4r4g0n]

Wraith05, on 17 January 2013 - 06:08 PM, said:

Was also told that premades are so abundant that they are ruining the game and are in most pug matches. But if most forum goers pug 90-100% how can this be?

Cos the hard core premades would likely not vote in this poll?

However, I don't believe premades rolling solo PUGs are currently that big an issue, if it ever was. Problem is a borked match maker that just grabs players to fill teams with almost no balancing criteria and ends up creating mismatched teams.

Edited by p4r4g0n, 17 January 2013 - 06:41 PM.

[Zylo]

Panserbjorne, on 17 January 2013 - 06:33 PM, said:

I know I'm just beating a dead horse repeating this, but here goes:

I like premades
I like PUGs

Pair PUGs with PUGs and premades with premades.

Their need not be a seperation, but there needs to be parity.

If there are 4 pugs and a 4-pilot premade on 1 team, pair that with 4 pugs and a 4-pilot premade on the other (or two 2-pilot premades etc).

It's really simple (though I have no idea how simple the execution may or may not be) and I hope this is fixed really soon, because it's the one aspect of this game that really takes away the fun for me. I can deal with ECM and heat issues as long as I know that I have a fair shot at each match I drop into.

I really do think these two communities can coexist peacefully if given the chance. Ironically, by the matchmaker not differentiating between the two communities, the divide between them has only deepened.

Even small groups have been asking for this fix rather than the current matchmaking system that sometimes places 2x 4-player groups on the same team vs what appears to be 8 lone-wolf players.

Without any sort of fix to matchmaker after the volume of complaints it makes me wonder if the phase 3 matchmaker will switch to any size group vs whatever the matchmaker can find as long as the Elo ratings and weight classes of each team match.

[Wraith05]

p4r4g0n, on 17 January 2013 - 06:40 PM, said:

Cos the hard core premades would likely not vote in this poll?

However, I don't believe premades rolling solo PUGs are currently that big an issue, if it ever was. Problem is a borked match maker that just grabs players to fill teams with almost no balancing criteria and ends up creating mismatched teams.

Why wouldn't they? It stands to reason that only those that are hardcore into the game are more likely to visit the forums for that game. The casuals can't take the effort to organize or get voice comms so why would they take the effort to go to a forum, make a profile, log in, and vote on a poll?

Now obviously my statement isn't true and is flawed. Just like the statements of "premades don't use 8 mans because they like to pugstomp!" or "premades are runing the game" or "all founders run in premades" or "0-8 losses are always due to premades". the list can go on.

The game isn't meant for one or the other. It is meant to be played as a team in it's current state. And when one side plays more like a team than the other (for whatever reason, grouping or not) it will win. Grouped players go into games knowing that half their team will be working together. Solo launchers go not knowing if anyone will work together or not so they are at a disatvantage since they don't have all the in game tools to pull those 7 others to work together once in game.

[siLve00]

p4r4g0n, on 17 January 2013 - 06:40 PM, said:

However, I don't believe premades rolling solo PUGs are currently that big an issue, if it ever was. Problem is a borked match maker that just grabs players to fill teams with almost no balancing criteria and ends up creating mismatched teams.

the only thing a matchmaker should do is :

match premades vs premades and match mech classes vs mech classes.

zack .......... all problem solved.
THe premades can show off how good they realy are.. the pugs can be happy since it will be always even.

We dont need an ELO or send premades to hell... or a pug only que.. thats bs.. just like i said.. and everybody can be happy.
No more sync. drops ( since then the other team would have 2x4 premades and so on ). No more "WW premades QQ" .. No more " ******* PUGS learn to (team)play" and so on.

Edited by siLve00, 17 January 2013 - 09:06 PM.

[p4r4g0n]

siLve00, on 17 January 2013 - 09:05 PM, said:

the only thing a matchmaker should do is :

match premades vs premades and match mech classes vs mech classes.

zack .......... all problem solved.
THe premades can show off how good they realy are.. the pugs can be happy since it will be always even.

We dont need an ELO or send premades to hell... or a pug only que.. thats bs.. just like i said.. and everybody can be happy.
No more sync. drops ( since then the other team would have 2x4 premades and so on ). No more "WW premades QQ" .. No more " ******* PUGS learn to (team)play" and so on.

To digress and set the background of my thoughts -

Personally, I think that even with the cadet bonus etc, new player retention is probably sub-optimal. The reason I believe this is that I have almost exclusively solo PUGged and the solo PUG experience is definitely not something that will be regarded as being fun for most people new to BT/Mechwarrior.

It looks cool and attracts interest in trying it out but actually playing and learning from scratch is a whole different story. The 25 match cadet bonus just masks the problem and I would not be surprised if the new player retention numbers will not differ substantially from before its introduction.

Basically, there are just 2 points that I'm concerned about:

1. Do new players have fun when put in a game with players who have vastly better mechs and experience?
2. Do solo PUGgers have fun when they are being "carried" by players with much greater experience & skills?

MWO's future depends on the fun factor given the business model they have chosen. Matching players with roughly similar experiences and skill levels helps raise this.

Please note I'm not advocating premade v premade only, etc. There should be a reasonable compromise possible as I believe it is important that solo PUGs should see the difference in the way a premade operates versus a solo PUG which means a mixed queue is needed.

I hope Phase 3 of MM is the answer but if it fails epically, I think PGI needs to seriously think about whether separate queues should be implemented for the future of the game.

I have yet to encourage any of my gaming friends or children to try this game for fear of putting them off this game forever.