17 replies to this topic

[Goose]

I believe boosting AMS would go a long way towards alleviating the current ECM-Streak combo, as seen on two or three current platforms.

The idea is "Since Steaks have so much more guidance, there must be a radar signal for AMS to notice and prioritize for response."

Right.

Mostly, it would mean AMS could handle Streak fire from much closer then the current 200m; It probably also means locking onto a unit with a Streak would prevent the targets AMS from engaging any other non-Streak incoming missiles, like all the LRMs you're spotting for.

I don't know what happens if more then one Streak-equipped attacker locks onto one target: The AMS gets confused, shore, but does what, then?

OK, yeah: Not everyone will be happy with even moar presser to mount an AMS, and the thing about multi-Streak-attack-units reinforces the wolf pack mentality we see plenty of, but what else do we have?

[Roughneck45]

I do think that AMS should manhandle streaks more than it does currently. It would certainly curb the power of the ECM ravens. If you cant use your own streaks, then 3/4 of their streaks get shot down. Maybe even slow the missile speed of streaks to help accomplish this.

Would allow the jenner to be viable again, as well as the other variants of lights without ECM.

The tonnage is the same too. 1.5 for ECM, 1.5 for AMS and ammo.

Seems perfectly reasonable to me.

Edited by Roughneck45, 21 January 2013 - 01:05 PM.

[Mao of DC]

AMS needs some major love. Before ECM was in the game if you didn't have an AMS unit people called you a noob. Now I get called a noob for haveing one installed on my mech. If AMS was effective on streaks and SRM more people would use it. I hopeing with the new modules countering ECM some the AMS will make a resurgeance.

[Eddrick]

Goose, on 21 January 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

I don't know what happens if more then one Streak-equipped attacker locks onto one target: The AMS gets confused, shore, but does what, then?

OK, yeah: Not everyone will be happy with even moar presser to mount an AMS, and the thing about multi-Streak-attack-units reinforces the wolf pack mentality we see plenty of, but what else do we have?

I don't think AMS should have a problem handleing missiles at any range, as long as it has time to react to them.

What it should do in a case of missiles coming from multiple directions: The closest ones first. Then the next nearest. Mechs like the Stalker with two AMS should be able to handle missiles coming from more then one direction. Since it has two that should be able to act independantly.

[Goose]

Eddrick, on 21 January 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

… as long as it has time to react to them.

That's my point: Currently, an AMS rarely interacts with SRMs atoll, 'cause no one fires them from far enough away to give the AMS time. The shtick I posted, above, is an excuse to have AMSs react faster to Streaks then any other missile type.

[focuspark]

AMS is just as crappy as its supposed to be. It's an anti-LRM system primarily with a secondary ability to shoot at SRM. SRM move faster and travel less, so there's very little chance to shoot them down.

ECM and guided missile lock on is the problem.

[Roughneck45]

focuspark, on 21 January 2013 - 01:32 PM, said:

AMS is just as crappy as its supposed to be. It's an anti-LRM system primarily with a secondary ability to shoot at SRM. SRM move faster and travel less, so there's very little chance to shoot them down.

ECM and guided missile lock on is the problem.

And with these propsed changes to AMS, it becomes the solution.

[Oppresor]

I have always liked AMS; it reminds me of the Vulcan Phalanx CIWS. The way I see it is that if the Vulcan can prioritise targets and take them out at ultra close range, AMS should be able to do the same. If this means boosting AMS, so be it.

I never take the Atlas out without 2000 rounds on-board.

[focuspark]

Roughneck45, on 21 January 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:

And with these propsed changes to AMS, it becomes the solution.

Careful you border on making AMS a must have and OP.

[Roughneck45]

focuspark, on 21 January 2013 - 02:08 PM, said:

Careful you border on making AMS a must have and OP.

Well considering that everyone already believes that ECM is this way, it becomes more of a rock paper scissors situation.

It's effectiveness against LRMs would remain the same, it would just be more accurate for streaks, meaning more appealing for light mechs that cannot take ECM.

[focuspark]

Roughneck45, on 21 January 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

Well considering that everyone already believes that ECM is this way, it becomes more of a rock paper scissors situation.

It's effectiveness against LRMs would remain the same, it would just be more accurate for streaks, meaning more appealing for light mechs that cannot take ECM.

Fixing bad design with more bad design just ruins a game. Better to fix the root problem than to layer on the problems. IMO the root problem here is the guided missile lock on.

[Roughneck45]

focuspark, on 21 January 2013 - 02:15 PM, said:

Fixing bad design with more bad design just ruins a game. Better to fix the root problem than to layer on the problems. IMO the root problem here is the guided missile lock on.

Bad design on ECM is an opinion though, not a fact.

The known broken elements of the equation are netcode and collisions. These two things are truly the root of the problem.

I personally have no problems with how ECM works, and I do not think it is overpowered. The ability for lights mechs to lag through masses of enemies is the problem, and currently lock ons are the only counter to that, which is why it makes ECM look overpowered.

[Eddrick]

Goose, on 21 January 2013 - 01:18 PM, said:

That's my point: Currently, an AMS rarely interacts with SRMs atoll, 'cause no one fires them from far enough away to give the AMS time. The shtick I posted, above, is an excuse to have AMSs react faster to Streaks then any other missile type.

The origenal design of StreakSRM was just regular SRMs that would only fire when they get a lock. In that case. No computer should be able to tell the differance with signiture. Because, the only differance is the launcher.

They act very differantly in this game. Being able to tweak automactic systems like AMS would be an interesting idea to give players.

[Goose]

And in case you where wondering, the big improvement in netcode hasn't removed the need for something to be done the lack of balance between Streaks and AMS … :-(

[Theobald Hauser]

Half-a-ton aquipment shouldn't negate all missiles weapon systems, neither, you know. AMS shoot Streaks down from a range. I've seen half a salvo been shot down by an AMS with my Streakat (one in each pair) when fired at 200m. When 2 or 3 AMS equipped Mechs are close, no streaks go through at all. Stop playing lone formerly invincible lights gunmen, and play more lights hunting groups, and that's it.

No weapon has a counter when fired point blank range, why should streaks have one ?

[King Arthur IV]

ams needs alot of love. they dont seem to hit squat if srm or ssrm fired at 200m.

[Theobald Hauser]

You're kidding ?

[Bobzilla]

The problem is the light vs light with SSRMs. If you increase AMS for that instance you also increase it for other instances with other weapons.
SRM's are fine to me, tho because of ECM are over used, not because they are powerful, but because other missles are ineffective with ECM.