64 replies to this topic

[XR17]

We all know that the raven 3l and the COM-2D are problematic because the ability to put ECM and use streaks, so I was wondering what point makes ECM most annoying. And I make a poll.

Assuming no change would be made to ECM, SSRM or netcode ever, I hate the most...

1. ECM: too many benefits without cost (should remove the actual ECM in the actual conditions)
2. ECM + light mechs because netcode makes them invulnerable (the actual ECM on other mechs weights is fine)
3. ECM + SSRM: because of easy piloting (ECM just with ballistic and laser would be fine)
4. ECM+Light+SSRM (other weights with streaks / ECM lights with ballistics and lasers would still be fun)
5. The ECM is fine (with the actual netcode the ECM presents no problem)

Ok ok, I added the "no problem here". Since I try to apply a ceteris paribus approach to the ECM issue, I focused in the actual netcode and the actual ECM, not balance on it in some specific aspect or what a future fix would bring. The options are made to understand what is seen more detrimental to the game: the ECM per se, or it with other condition, and which.

Edited by Kracuste, 22 January 2013 - 06:37 AM.

[Codejack]

Assuming no change would be made to ECM ever, I don't care because I won't be playing.

Edited by Codejack, 21 January 2013 - 04:26 PM.

[Phlyk]

There needs to be another option to cover lag shield/netcode/lack of localised servers.

Currently the main issue I find is that lights have a "lag shield" that makes it hard to deal significant damage to them, barring lucky or particularly well placed shots, without homing weapons (streaks/LRMs).

Once this issue is resolved you will be able to hit light mechs much more efficiently with direct fire weapons and the power of ECM will be more limited. As it is ECM is able to counter the only things that can routinely cut through the "Lag Shield", I think this is why it seems very powerful at the moment.

This is exacerbated in situations where you have mechs (2D, 3L) that can shoot through the "Lag Shield" with Streaks and cannot be shot back at in the same way.

I think we should wait until after the netcode fixes to definitively decide on this issue, that will be a re-balance in itself!

[SmoothCriminal]

Where is "it's ok, but lag shields and potentially hitboxes need to be changed before any real game content gets adjusted"

You know, the sane response.

[XR17]

The devs are working since forever in netcode, and don't have a short answer to the problem. So, the actual problem, with the actual ECM is something I was wondering. I am not saying "don't fix the netcode", but "since we have to wait forever, maybe a non time demanding solution would be...".

And if the problem is netcode, having ECM in other weight classes would be no problem (since you can hit them easily, even if they have 4 SSSRM an ECM), ergo, ECM+Lights is the problem

[Solis Obscuri]

I'm gonna say "ECM" but I'd vote for all of them if I could.

[SmoothCriminal]

I know the net code fix is taking some time, but until it kicks in I'm going to sit on the fence with ECM. Or use the raven 3L. Will be interesting to see what happens.

[shabowie]

Can't vote because there is no option say, ECM, lights and streaks are all Unbalanced individually, and synergistically the three are even more unbalanced.

[Codejack]

shabowie, on 21 January 2013 - 05:04 PM, said:

Can't vote because there is no option say, ECM, lights and streaks are all Unbalanced individually, and synergistically the three are even more unbalanced.

I decided to look at it as, "what is the worst?" of the list.

[Kelb]

None of the above, ECM is unbalanced because it is too hard to counter. I say BAP, but there are better ways.

[Joseph Mallan]

The Main problem with ECM is people don't know how to use direct fire weapons. Oh and Guardian is not supposed to stop SSRMs ANgel ECM is supposed to dumb them down to normal SRMs.

Thats it. Thats whats wrong with ECM.

[mullet steve]

there needs to be another option for "ECM if fine stop whining!"

[Cervantes88]

mullet steve, on 22 January 2013 - 04:40 AM, said:

there needs to be another option for "ECM if fine stop whining!"

There's always that guy.

[checker]

mullet steve, on 22 January 2013 - 04:40 AM, said:

there needs to be another option for "ECM is fine stop whining!"

ditto

[Joseph Mallan]

Cervantes88, on 22 January 2013 - 04:43 AM, said:

There's always that those guys.

Fixed that for ya!

[Apoc1138]

ECM makes using LRM's as indirect fire weapons more difficult, and causes problems for non-ECM mechs relying heavily on streak 2's... which is exactly what it was designed to do

the main problem with ECM is people refusing to learn or adapt their playstyle to a world in which ECM exists

if I can see it I can shoot it

[Lyrik]

Biased poll is biased. Lights, streaks and ECM are more or less fine. Combined with "lagshielding" they are OP.

Fix the netcode and bring back colliding. That will result in lots of dead ECM/Streak Ravens and Commandos. Ok, we will have more whines about how useless lights are now but you can't have everything :-P

[Cervantes88]

Oh there's no need to prove me that many people in the world think wrong. Just gotta watch the news every evening for that.

Back on topic, ECM would already be way powerful for its tonnage and the advantage it gives to the variants that are able to equip it if it only disrupted lock-on weapons.

But in addition it makes every ally immune to sensors, effectively working as a stealth shield, and it screws up the enemy's HUD like a permanent PPC hit, if PPCs actually did that like they did in MW3 which was great.

And all that for what ? 1.5t and no drawbacks ? So the only way to counter that is to carry more ECM. Hence making it required to properly play the game in every situation. Hence being the exact definition of NOT fine.

Gotta either reduce its power, or add more counters (namely BAP, TAGs, etc...). Did you know that being in the range of an ECM actually disrupts your TAG ? How dumb is that ?

[siLve00]

answer nr.

5. iam a bad player and can´t aim, nerf ecm !


QQ

*ac20 and some srm do fix ECM pretty well*

[Taemien]

The problem isn't ECM. I can't ever remember a time where I was totally decimated just because an ECM was present. There's only two tactical advantages that ECM gives:

1. A means to flank using pathways you could not before due to the little red icons appearing over your head.

2. An immunity from streaks.

There is no immunity from LRMs as I've noticed that when using an ECM mech, I still get the incoming missile warning and have to take cover to avoid them. And the other effects of ECM are not noticable in PUGs because let's be serious, they don't and will not ever focus down a target. And premades are going to call out their targets over TS.

Now point 1 above isn't an issue for PUGs because they do NOT have that level of sophistication or collaboration. And when facing that sort of tactic, they are getting rolled anyway. And point 2 is well, let's face it, PUG'rs weren't using streaks that much anyway. The exception were the gimp build known as the Streak Cat with 6SSRM2s. For some reason they thought that build was effective. Sorry to say, it wasn't. Except against noob players who are running trial mechs.

Now some people think that correcting the lag shield will fix everything. More or less it will. However it WILL NOT fix the whining. In closed beta, we had no lag shields on lights and knock downs. Bad light pilots were simply fodder, just as expected. But the funny thing is, there were MASS complaints and whine threads about how Overpowered the Jenner was.

You could literally point your cursor at a Jenner and hit it where your reticle was and hit it with lasers. Dropping it in several shots. You could blow on it with anything over 50 tons and knock it down. Yet it was STILL "Overpowered" by the whining vocal majority (remember the majority of forum users are here to complain, happy players are playing, not usually posting).

These players will never be happy. Its not possible. Even if they never have to face a premade, collisions are in, and netcode isn't an issue, they will still find something to complain about. The simple fact of the matter is they are terrible at the game, and wish for the developers to fix the issue for them. The issue being they are just terrible and do not wish to slug through their baptism by fire and become vets like the rest of 'us' (of course us being the happy players that aren't affected by these issues and can overcome change and adversity, and even bugs like the netcode).

But I am calling it now. If the netcode is fixed and if heaven forbid the ECM is nerfed, they will still complain. Heck, we just had a thread pop up a few days ago saying LRMs are OP. I haven't been killed by an LRM since closed beta.