115 replies to this topic

[William Petersen]

Christopher Dayson, on 26 May 2012 - 09:15 AM, said:

I've yet to see a map that is a completely flat featureless terrain that doesn't allow for people to get out of LOS or to close via cover. the AC-2 is just worthless. 2 points of damage is nothing especially with the current double armor and double internal structure we have now. It'd take 18 hits to a Jenner to cause significant damage.

For that kind of weight it's just not worth it and on an Atlas you're /not/ stopping them from closing right quick.

Pretty much. Don't forget that the flat, featureless area would have to be pretty huge to allow a Mech to endlessly circle another maintaining whatever range advantage is enjoyed. Furthermore, team game is team game. Shoot me up, sure, while my buddy flanks you and annihilates you with weapons that actual do real damage.

The AC/2 is the single longest-range weapon we'll have at launch, however, it has only marginal range advantage over an ER PPC, Gauss, or LRMS (30, 60 and 90 meters respectively).

[OcO]

Monthar, on 26 May 2012 - 04:59 AM, said:

I really want the AS7-K3 variant, because I loves me some jump jets.
http://www.sarna.net...28BattleMech%29





So that gives a layout of:
1 Gauss
2 ER Large Lasers
1 SSRM-4
3 Jump Jets
Guardian ECM
400 XL engine
16.5 tons of FF armor
Top speed of 64.8 km/h

I too am hoping to see the -K3 variant. I'm more interested in knowing though if jump jets will be variant specific or if once a variant is added with them that means we can add them to other variants if we make the modifications needed to fit them.

[Pale Horseman]

Gauge, on 26 May 2012 - 05:17 AM, said:

An interesting catch, since in that breakdown video, there are no circles on the back of the Hunchback... I mean, the front right torso would share crit spaces with the rear right torso, but maybe that is what they're for? To be fair though, those dots are in the MechLab Breakdown video on the Hunchie's legs, even though there's no hardpoints there, so they don't seem to just mean "This location has hardpoints."

May have just been an aesthetics thing?

You could be right, and, as Vorus suggests, it could be for armor allocation.

I guess I'm too used to the Mechlabs in the previous Mechwarrior games where amour allocation and weapons allocation were separate screens and assumed being able to select the rear in the weapons allocation screen shown meant you could add weapons facing the rear.

[William Petersen]

OcO, on 26 May 2012 - 09:25 AM, said:

I too am hoping to see the -K3 variant. I'm more interested in knowing though if jump jets will be variant specific or if once a variant is added with them that means we can add them to other variants if we make the modifications needed to fit them.

You realize the -K2 and -K3 are both post-Jihad designs. That is, from 3085. Seriously doubt we'll be seeing that any time soon. I'm a little surprised they're giving us the -K, what with it being a 3050 design.


EDIT:

With regard to the AS7-K; Sarna says it's a 3050's design, but Solaris Skunk Werks lists the year available as 3049. /shrugs

Edited by William Petersen, 26 May 2012 - 09:34 AM.

[Earthtalker]

I believe the dev's have already mentioned that it will be variant specific when it comes to jump jets and possibly std eng/ XL eng. Meaning that if your mech didn't come with and XL engine or JJ you won't be able to put them on in the Mechlab. You would simply buy the variant that had them and work from there.

[Saren21]

William Petersen, on 26 May 2012 - 09:29 AM, said:

You realize the -K2 and -K3 are both post-Jihad designs. That is, from 3085. Seriously doubt we'll be seeing that any time soon. I'm a little surprised they're giving us the -K, what with it being a 3050 design.

The Dev might have take'in a little creative lee-way with the K just to help add a little more for us to play with.

[HighlandWolf]

i am eager to try this out as well as other variants, people may poopoo an AC/2 on this behemoth but quite frankly, coupled with the LB 10-X AC..could be quite devestating..dont knock it til you try it i say

[Bleakheart]

Christopher Dayson, on 26 May 2012 - 09:15 AM, said:

I've yet to see a map that is a completely flat featureless terrain that doesn't allow for people to get out of LOS or to close via cover. the AC-2 is just worthless. 2 points of damage is nothing especially with the current double armor and double internal structure we have now. It'd take 18 hits to a Jenner to cause significant damage.

For that kind of weight it's just not worth it and on an Atlas you're /not/ stopping them from closing right quick.

I can see that you and I have had very different gaming experiences. That said, I look forward to head shotting you, over, and over, and over, while you desperately scramble to get in range.... All in good fun, of course

[Pvt Dancer]

Pale Horseman, on 26 May 2012 - 04:28 AM, said:

I'm more interested in the 3 circles in the second silhouette.

From what I saw of the MechLab breakdown on IGN, that was labeled the rear. Does this mean we get rear mounted weapons now?

I am 99% positive that there are no rear firing weapons in the game. If they do have them, they updated it within the last month and have not told anyone. The only two mechs that would have them are the Atlas and Centurion (currently released mechs that is) and they have made a point to move them to the front torso. I believe to have rear-firing weapons they would need a 'rear view' window that you could target through, which would add on alot of extra work for only a few mechs. To be frank, I would rather see more mechs, quads, or proper melee attacks first.

[goon]

So the LBX-10 is 11 tons in game aye?, sticking to BT rules I see.


Time to work on my Cataphract Variant.

[Earthtalker]

Saren21, on 26 May 2012 - 09:34 AM, said:

The Dev might have take'in a little creative lee-way with the K just to help add a little more for us to play with.

This I wouldn't mind so long as it didn't confer a unfair advantage and it was done very rarely. (ie Founder's Mech, special contest award, ect)

[OcO]

William Petersen, on 26 May 2012 - 09:29 AM, said:

You realize the -K2 and -K3 are both post-Jihad designs. That is, from 3085. Seriously doubt we'll be seeing that any time soon. I'm a little surprised they're giving us the -K, what with it being a 3050 design.

I know the -K3 would not be in for quite some time, but so long as the game is good I'll be around when it is added. :-) It is kinda weird to see a 3050 variant though given the timeline constraints they have talked about.

@Earthtalker the devs did say that they would not add variants if they didn't have a real difference between them. Unfortunately to me this does seem to imply that engines and possibly jump jets will be variant specific. The standard Atlas and the now seen -k variant have basically the same hardpoints/weapon type load out...1 large ballistic, 1 LRM, 1 SRM and 4 lasers. The only real difference is the engine.

Edit: As for the variants release timeline, all of the components needed to build that variant are within the given timeline are they not. It seems they are maybe going to add variants that are possible to build in this time even if they haven't been yet just to be able to have a good variety of mech variants available.

Edited by OcO, 26 May 2012 - 09:44 AM.

[William Petersen]

Earthtalker, on 26 May 2012 - 09:38 AM, said:

This I wouldn't mind so long as it didn't confer a unfair advantage and it was done very rarely. (ie Founder's Mech, special contest award, ect)

Yeah, the thing about that is, no matter what they do, if Special Mech is at all different from Non-Special, Every-Person Mech, then there will be plenty of people complaining that it's an 'unfair advantage'. =-/

[Pvt Dancer]

Bleakheart, on 26 May 2012 - 09:37 AM, said:

I can see that you and I have had very different gaming experiences. That said, I look forward to head shotting you, over, and over, and over, while you desperately scramble to get in range.... All in good fun, of course

Double armor values say your going to have to hit me in the head 21 times with your AC 2. Good luck with that, as your targets will not be standing still. You will also have to take the proper Moduals to even see your opponets at range, and they could have moduals that counter you. Your also assuming pin point accuracy, which I have not seen.

Right now, the best thing about ACs is they do full damage per hit, unlike lasers which are DoT. Missiles do not all hit unless your packing streaks, then it is all or nothing. The 6+ tons your using for that AC 2 could be better damage. An LRM 5 for 2 tons gives you a better damage package at just about the same range, much less 6+ medium lasers or better energy weapons.

[Jacob Davion]

When it comes to an AC/2 on an Atlas, I'm dead against it. However, from personal gaming experience, I can understand Bleakheart's point of view concerning sitting back and hitting someone with a mega-long range weapon without the enemy returning fire. I can also understand Christopher Dayson's use of cover to neutralize that idea. Thus, I find a solution for both. Bleakheart, if you mount an AC/2 or several AC/2s for that matter on a highly mobile medium mech with as many jump jets as it can mount (5 or 6 in this time period I presume), then you'll still be able to jump up in the air and be high enough to where you can shoot over the cover that Christopher Dayson is behind. However, for Christopher Dayson, if he DOES use that tactic against you, then staying in a heavily armored, slow assault mech is a dead mission. If I were in your place I'd meet range with speed, if there's a medium out there sniping at mega ranges then I'd do as you suggested earlier: get a fast mech to flank around and take him out. That is, of course, if he doesn't see it coming. However, if it is just a one on one matchup, then for Christopher Dayson, I'd charge the sniper as fast as I could to keep his shot off balance. For Bleakheart (which tactic I personally favor), instead of trying to finish with a glorious head shot, shoot one of his legs to slow him down or to make him fall, or at least take out one of his big weapons, that way when he gets in range to fire at you, he won't have much to offer. However, if you already had a few licks on his head, then stick with it until he's done.

Edited by Jacob Davion, 26 May 2012 - 09:59 AM.

[Earthtalker]

William Petersen, on 26 May 2012 - 09:41 AM, said:

Yeah, the thing about that is, no matter what they do, if Special Mech is at all different from Non-Special, Every-Person Mech, then there will be plenty of people complaining that it's an 'unfair advantage'. =-/

I thought this as well after I typed it out. This should be mitigated somewhat by having the special mech be canon. Granted, there will still be people who will "cry wolf" no matter what is done, most should see it for what it is: A unique award that is both rare so only a few are seen in battle, and is also balanced so as not to give an unfair advantage in game. The Atlas in question. if speculation is true, would be a surprise to some pilots. But that would quickly be nullified once they understand that variants weaknesses and it will be just another mech, albeit a rare one. Gotta say a jumping Atlas would be pretty sweet to have.

[Evil Ash]

I find it better that they show us GUI of the mechlab

[Bleakheart]

Pvt Dancer, on 26 May 2012 - 09:44 AM, said:

Double armor values say your going to have to hit me in the head 21 times with your AC 2. Good luck with that, as your targets will not be standing still. You will also have to take the proper Moduals to even see your opponets at range, and they could have moduals that counter you. Your also assuming pin point accuracy, which I have not seen.

Right now, the best thing about ACs is they do full damage per hit, unlike lasers which are DoT. Missiles do not all hit unless your packing streaks, then it is all or nothing. The 6+ tons your using for that AC 2 could be better damage. An LRM 5 for 2 tons gives you a better damage package at just about the same range, much less 6+ medium lasers or better energy weapons.

Again, different gaming mindsets and experiences. I bet that in every map, there will be at least one long range venue for using this extra tool, and that I'll learn to hit with it, where I want to, more often than not. Eventually, folks will get sick of getting plinked in the cranium, and come looking for me. This of course brings them into range for all the real hardware

Missiles have a flight time, energy weapons are DoT... An AC2 is point and shoot goodness, even if the damage is low end. If the recycle time is low, it could be far more effective than it's being given credit for.

[Sassori]

Bleakheart, on 26 May 2012 - 09:37 AM, said:

I can see that you and I have had very different gaming experiences. That said, I look forward to head shotting you, over, and over, and over, while you desperately scramble to get in range.... All in good fun, of course

I look forwards to closing the distance with my superior jump jets and 6/9/6 movement to instantly get in range of my LRM's, PPC's, AC 5's, Gauss Rifles, and taking your 2 points of damage while utterly thrashing you with 5, 10, or 15 damage per shot compared to your 2 damage per shot giving me 2 hit kills when I head shot you in return.

All in good fun of course.

[Stone Profit]

Jacob Davion, on 26 May 2012 - 09:55 AM, said:

When it comes to an AC/2 on an Atlas, I'm dead against it. However, from personal gaming experience, I can understand Bleakheart's point of view concerning sitting back and hitting someone with a mega-long range weapon without the enemy returning fire. I can also understand Christopher Dayson's use of cover to neutralize that idea. Thus, I find a solution for both. Bleakheart, if you mount an AC/2 or several AC/2s for that matter on a highly mobile medium mech with as many jump jets as it can mount (5 or 6 in this time period I presume), then you'll still be able to jump up in the air and be high enough to where you can shoot over the cover that Christopher Dayson is behind. However, for Christopher Dayson, if he DOES use that tactic against you, then staying in a heavily armored, slow assault mech is a dead mission. If I were in your place I'd meet range with speed, if there's a medium out there sniping at mega ranges then I'd do as you suggested earlier: get a fast mech to flank around and take him out. That is, of course, if he doesn't see it coming. However, if it is just a one on one matchup, then for Christopher Dayson, I'd charge the sniper as fast as I could to keep his shot off balance. For Bleakheart (which tactic I personally favor), instead of trying to finish with a glorious head shot, shoot one of his legs to slow him down or to make him fall, or at least take out one of his big weapons, that way when he gets in range to fire at you, he won't have much to offer. However, if you already had a few licks on his head, then stick with it until he's done.

Jumping mechs make for notoriously easy targets, at least for myself in previous games.