949 replies to this topic

[MagnusEffect]

On the topic of the "Coolant Flush", I'm 100% with Prosperity on this. Just because M$ created a mechanic out of thin air doesn't mean we have to follow it. Coolant Pods are the way to go.

And since it has already been established there will be no "gold ammo" as you WoT people put it:

My biggest concern is balancing of different techs: I don't want to see everyone spring for Clan-tech the second it comes out. There should be some REAL challenges to getting and maintaining advanced weapons. For Clanners (since Clan factions are likely inevitable), there should be some sort of "honor" mechanic that ENCOURAGES them to behave like a Clanner would (for example: only earning credits/honor for solo kills=Zellbrigenhttp://www.sarna.net/wiki/Zellbrigen). Also some sort of Battle Value system should be in place. Basic tech should still be a viable option for the competitive player on a budget.

dooder39, on 26 May 2012 - 04:19 AM, said:

Melee

I don't want to see any Gundam **** either, but what do you people have against the Axman?

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Axman

Edited by MagnusEffect, 30 May 2012 - 12:31 AM.

[Rejarial Galatan]

MagnusEffect, on 29 May 2012 - 11:55 PM, said:

What do you people have against the Axman?

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Axman

one of the only IS mechs I adore! I want one myself! Axe or Not, I want it!

[Ian]

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Sure you can override the shut down, but, the heat that is warranting it is STILL there, the whole idea of using the coolant as a last ditch hail-mary idea, is to remove enough heat to 1. avoid the shut down at first, 2. not make that reactor which is at the least 50 Million degrees at its core not pull a supernova on you. 3. if you blow up because you over rode that shut down, made the alpha any way, in theory you both get the kill, and i am not one for handing over kills to you, just to kill you. that is the idea of the coolant flush, to avoid going boom yourself when you make your hail-mary shot.

Your engine doesn't explode from over heating. Only your ammo does.

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at the least 50 Million degrees

That's significantly hotter than the sun's core which is 1.5million degrees. If you were to somehow reach it then yes your reactor would explode.

[Rejarial Galatan]

to over come the repulsive forces of atomic nuclei, you MUST heat them to the point where they are moving so fast, they hit and fuse before the repulsive forces drive them apart, and to achieve this, they must be extremely hot. namely millions of degrees. Courtesy of http://nineplanets.org/sol.html our Sun' solar mass of 1, a nominal main Sequence star of average size at its core is a staggering 15 million Kelvin and change. and, if you make the claim that the heat doesnt make an already unstable process go boom, i want to see your facts backing it up, preferably something with a PGI logo on it. not trollin ya on this one man, but, gotta back the claim up to be fair.

also: http://other.nrl.nav...eactiontemp.htm
also for those of you who dig this sorta thing: http://en.wikipedia..../Nuclear_fusion

edit: the pair of also's were added.

Edited by Rejarial Galatan, 30 May 2012 - 12:12 AM.

[DrnkJawa]

One thing i would like to never seen in MWO is that crap madcat, too many fanboys having nerdgasms about it

[Rejarial Galatan]

DrnkJawa, on 30 May 2012 - 12:22 AM, said:

One thing i would like to never seen in MWO is that crap madcat, too many fanboys having nerdgasms about it

I will take great pleasure in gunning your mech down from range with my Timber Wolf freebirth surat. The Timber Wolf is absolutely iconic, and not having it, once the clans both arrive and become playable is akin to not having an Atlas or Jenner.

[Ian]

No sir. Because battletech is a game, played by rules. The heat scale goes to 30. 30 is mech shut down. No where do reactors explode in Battletech save for the Stackpole effect. Which is an intentional forced explosion. The burden of proof is on you to show where they intend to change the rules.

Indeed i did miscount the zero's when i checked on the temp at the sun's core. That has exactly zero to do with the game we are discussing.

[Tarellond]

I fear two things.
First, assault mechs dominance. Too many times I've seen cases in other games that one class/vehicle/whatever is far too supperior to be competitive. It had many negative aspects comming hand in hand with it, mostly unexperienced yet rather arogant players pick those and look down on other folks trying to do their best with insufficently competitive tools. It simply breaks relations within the community.

Second, melee. Mechs are mobile weapon platforms, not oversized medieval knights in shining armour. Realistic physics of collisions, jumping on head of other mechs, be my guest, because that makes sence. But who the hell would build incredibly expensive and technologically demanding machine to give him a blade? ***?!

[Rejarial Galatan]

Ian, on 30 May 2012 - 12:25 AM, said:

No sir. Because battletech is a game, played by rules. The heat scale goes to 30. 30 is mech shut down. No where do reactors explode in Battletech save for the Stackpole effect. Which is an intentional forced explosion. The burden of proof is on you to show where they intend to change the rules.

Indeed i did miscount the zero's when i checked on the temp at the sun's core. That has exactly zero to do with the game we are discussing.

actually, if you override the shut down, keep firing and keep this cycle going, your mech will ultimately go boom. god knows i did this enough in MW2.

[Eyclone]

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[color=#959595]The Timber Wolf is absolutely iconic[/color]

It is pretty much the first image that springs to mind when I think mech, maybe I spent too long watching my dad play MW2

Edited by Eyclone, 30 May 2012 - 12:30 AM.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Tarellond, on 30 May 2012 - 12:26 AM, said:

I fear two things.
First, assault mechs dominance. Too many times I've seen cases in other games that one class/vehicle/whatever is far too supperior to be competitive. It had many negative aspects comming hand in hand with it, mostly unexperienced yet rather arogant players pick those and look down on other folks trying to do their best with insufficently competitive tools. It simply breaks relations within the community.

Second, melee. Mechs are mobile weapon platforms, not oversized medieval knights in shining armour. Realistic physics of collisions, jumping on head of other mechs, be my guest, because that makes sence. But who the hell would build incredibly expensive and technologically demanding machine to give him a blade? ***?!

its called an Axman.

[Ian]

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actually, if you override the shut down, keep firing and keep this cycle going, your mech will ultimately go boom. god knows i did this enough in MW2.

Neat but not canon which they are trying to get closer to in this game.

[LackofCertainty]

The one thing I don't want to see in MWO?

Heat being trivial, instead of a major concern around which you build your mech.

If you want to build a mech that runs ice cold, that's fine, but your awesome should not be able to dump it's PPC's nonstop without major penalties being imposed. I want speed and torso twist penalties. I want slower convergence when my mech is redlined. I want ammo cooking off. I wanted to see someone who stripped all the extra heatsinks out of the awesome fire a couple barrages and then explode in a giant, nuclear fireball.

[Rejarial Galatan]

dude, think on this a moment, from a pure physics stand point, not counting the fact that a fusion reaction is just not possible yet, if you damage that reactors ability to keep its fuel at a 'reasonable' temperature, you will have a small supernova explosion on your hands, because face it, you have a micro star inside your machine. To think that you cannot cause a core melt down ala Chernobyl is fantasy. You keep going long enough, it will go boom, period. Only 2 ways around it: cool the mech some how, or cool the mech some how.

[Ian]

Wait did you just try to bring reality into a game about walking robot tanks?

[MagnusEffect]

in regards to engine explosions: http://www.sarna.net...i/Fusion_Engine

of special note, I will quote:

"Fusion engines usually will only shut down if damaged, and they are absolutely no risk of being a fusion bomb. ^[2] There have been a number of cases of fusion engines being "over revved" and exploding with devestating force, but this is more akin to a boiler explosion than a true nuclear explosion. More often a destroyed engine will be punctured by weapons fire. Because the plasma is held in a vacuum chamber (to isolate the superheated plasma from the cold walls of the reactor; contact with the walls would super-chill the plasma below fusion temperatures), a punctured reactor can suck in air where the air is superheated. Normal thermal expansion of the air causes the air to burst out in a brilliant lightshow often mistaken for a "nuclear explosion" that is only a risk for unarmored infantry close to the destroyed 'Mech.
Such dramatic failures are rare, though. It is difficult to sustain the fusion reaction and very easy to shutdown. Safety systems or damage to containment coils will almost always shut down the engine before such an explosion occurs. The massive shielding of the engine (in the case of standard fusion engines, this is a tungsten carbide shell that accounts for over 2/3 of the weight of the engine) usually buys the safety systems the milliseconds needed to shutdown the engine when severe damaged is inflicted."

So basically... engine explosions as we know them (capable of damaging other mechs) were fabricated by video game devs forever ago simply because it "looked cool". it is however, NOT CANON!

The proper way of handling it would for there to be the occasional engine explosion, but all it would do is look pretty, cause a heat spike in a small area, and maybe set fire to any flammable things nearby... but it wouldn't actually damage another mech

Edited by MagnusEffect, 30 May 2012 - 12:48 AM.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Ian, on 30 May 2012 - 12:41 AM, said:

Wait did you just try to bring reality into a game about walking robot tanks?

why not? everyone does that when i bring up the dreaded coolant flush thing....and oh, right, they are using physics in the game, so, they do apply. laws of nature rule!

[Web Death]

I don't want to see Gambling RNG type of Items that can only be purchased and/or unlocked with Real money, and that have the best or most powerful of Mechs attached to such purchases.

Edited by Web Death, 30 May 2012 - 12:45 AM.

[Rejarial Galatan]

The science geek in me is a touch agitated by what they say in the fusion engine thing. Just on a real world issue here, iron cannot be fused. When a star of sufficient size, several times the size of our beloved Sun, start to form iron in the core, the star is SECONDS from death. a few atoms mass worth of iron is enough to bring starts many times the size of our own into a super nova detonation. Now, please tell me who at FASA decided that when a mechs reactor core is breached, most likely some iron will make it into the reactor before it 'shuts down' which fusion being what it is, tends to dislike this and gets really violent about it. This is one case where they said: hmm, physics, ah screw it, lets say it shuts down. This is one place where suspension of disbelief fails me hard.

[Ian]

They are not simulating the fusion reactor in battlemechs with their pyhsics engine...

I'm really starting to think you are trying to Troll people.

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The science geek in me is a touch agitated by what they say in the fusion engine thing. Just on a real world issue here, iron cannot be fused. When a star of sufficient size, several times the size of our beloved Sun, start to form iron in the core, the star is SECONDS from death. a few atoms mass worth of iron is enough to bring starts many times the size of our own into a super nova detonation. Now, please tell me who at FASA decided that when a mechs reactor core is breached, most likely some iron will make it into the reactor before it 'shuts down' which fusion being what it is, tends to dislike this and gets really violent about it. This is one case where they said: hmm, physics, ah screw it, lets say it shuts down. This is one place where suspension of disbelief fails me hard.

Some game designers writing some soft sci fi in the 80's did.

Edited by Ian, 30 May 2012 - 12:51 AM.