565 replies to this topic

[xxREVxx]

I voted no. However, if implemented I will without a shadow of a doubt use it and abuse it. Sliding up to the top of a crest and being able to line my reticle up on your mech before you can even see me,...sweet! Hitting reverse right before my weapons clear the top, alpha your a$$e$ as reverse engages and I drop back down behind cover. At that point I will wonder, "Hmm, did he see where I just shot him from?" Then I will manuever my camera angle so I can see over the obstacle to see which way you are looking and what you are doing. I will then decide from your reaction whether I will repeat said process or move to another spot and repeat process. Then there are my friends who I am in voice comms with and we will alternate amongst ourselves, picking you apart from different directions. And the PUGS, the poor, poor PUGS, think they have it bad now....God help them. The best part of all of this will be that you asked for it. You say if the devs don't implement this that it will drive away, alienate, or not attract fan bases....and wait til the old school aces put this tool back in their toolbox, I see rivers of tears coming.


Given time to think about this, I am changing my vote to "yes".

Edited by PoisonWolf, 25 January 2013 - 04:56 PM.

[Coolant]

go start a poll about 3rd person on a popular 1st person site and see how people vote...

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

PoisonWolf, on 25 January 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:

I voted no. However, if implemented I will without a doubt use it and abuse it. Sliding up to the edge of a crest and being able to line my reticle up before you can even see me,...sweet! Hitting reverse right before my weapons clear the top, alpha your a$$e$ as reverse engages and I drop back down behind cover. At that point I will wonder, "Hmm, did he see where I just shot him from?" Then I will manuever my camera angle so I can see over the obstacle to see which way you are looking and what you are doing. I will then decide from your reaction whether I will repeat said process or move to another spot and repeat process. Then there are my friends who I am in voice comms with and we will alternate amongst ourselves, picking you apart from different directions. And the PUGS, the poor, poor PUGS, think they have it bad now....God help them. The best part of all of this will be that you asked for it. You say if the devs don't implement this that it will drive away, alienate, or not attract fan bases....wait til the old school aces put this tool back in their toolbox, I see rivers of tears coming.

lol this sounds like a Goon quote from EVE

[So who took Pilot Name as a name]

I fail to understand how so many fail to see that such a 'tactical advantage' would be more than negated if one would deal less damage for a set amount of time after triggering 3rd person and appear on nearby enemies' radar.

You guys talk as if ''you add third person to REAL LIFE; you have an exploit to REAL LIFE! DON'T ADD THIRD PERSON IN THIS GAME.''

News flash: this isn't real life, this is a game.

A game that can be modified with whatever piece of code the devs want to tweak and balance things in ways that wouldn't be possible in REAL LIFE. Like, adding PENALTIES when triggering certain FEATURES of a GAME.

Get REAL, people. (pun intended)

Edited by So who took Pilot Name as a name, 25 January 2013 - 12:10 PM.

[Kurshuk]

Voted No.

I'm running the War Thunder beta, it's a WWII Air, Land, Sea type deal with just planes so far. They address this issue by having 'Arcade' where it's 2 big teams made up of varying nationalities and the planes are represented in 3rd person, but they have 2 other modes for Historical, still arcadey, but teams of the same nationalities and such with some of the advanced flight model like stalls and spins, then a 'Full Realism' mode.

I'm terribly torn on this idea because on the one hand I know the Arcade mode of War Thunder captured a good chunk of people because you can be in a plane and flying (not crashing is the point here) very quickly. We could simulate some of that with things like at auto center legs over time. Say you twist the torso, if you're not moving your legs they'll slowly align to where you're pointing, say it identifies targets and the information from holding Q is always onscreen to make selecting targets easier with less buttons. We could do the same basic thing to capture players who want a casual game. 3rd person could fit in here too.

But I feel an arcade mode cheapens the MW IP and too far removes it from the need of piloting skill. I enjoy war thunder for a match or two every now and then, but no-one plays realism because nothing pushes them to improve the skill. I feel the same would happen with new players here. The hard-core players will be on the 'full realism' server and I'll be there with em, but I feel like new players would never migrate to that level if we give them an easier option.

The choices made on this point could destroy the product if made wrong, but I don't know where that right answer is. I hope the devs have thought long and hard about how the future of their business will be affected. It is an unenvious position that they find themselves in and I think this issue is just one more piece of the F2P model that I find unsavory.

Kurshuk

[Grey Ghost]

Eric darkstar Marr, on 25 January 2013 - 10:36 AM, said:

NO, unless for a spectator that is not in game.

Well spectator can be a free floating camera, as long as it's on a 30 second delay or something.

[Oppresor]

I sort of got used to the idea of 3rd person through Mech Assault 1 & 2, however not at the expense of loosing the standard 1st / 2nd (Depending on your view point) person views. For me the ideal situation would be to be able to cycle through the views.

What would be more useful, would be a rear camera view option.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 25 January 2013 - 09:17 AM, said:

yes and then the mods merged two threads and accidentally broke the poll (like they did every time they tried doing exactly that in CB. Youd think theyd have learned you cant d that -.-) also; they locked that old thread after they did that



the resurgence was required given that they destroyed the old poll. destroyed accidentally but destroyed monetheless

i know, which is why i brought THIS poll back, to keep us all armed with a way to hammer our dissent home.

So who took Pilot Name as a name, on 25 January 2013 - 12:08 PM, said:

I fail to understand how so many fail to see that such a 'tactical advantage' would be more than negated if one would deal less damage for a set amount of time after triggering 3rd person and appear on nearby enemies' radar.

You guys talk as if ''you add third person to REAL LIFE; you have an exploit to REAL LIFE! DON'T ADD THIRD PERSON IN THIS GAME.''

News flash: this isn't real life, this is a game.

A game that can be modified with whatever piece of code the devs want to tweak and balance things in ways that wouldn't be possible in REAL LIFE. Like, adding PENALTIES when triggering certain FEATURES of a GAME.

Get REAL, people. (pun intended)

get real yourself. we refuse to see this game tanked by the absurd addition to a mechanic that WILL fundamentally alter this game on its most basic of levels that will do so much damage to it in our eyes, that it will ultimately spell the end of this game. We want this game to live, and if that means making poll after poll with our dissent, then so be it.

[Rumjaku]

Rejarial Galatan, on 23 January 2013 - 10:27 PM, said:

Okay folks, here we go again. As we all already know, they <PGI/IGP> are 'considering' the addition of third person views. We had a poll in which over 5000 people voted and said no. That poll has well, been altered to remove the poll itself. So, vote again.

If they are considering a 3rd person view, it should be appease those like me who would like it for pure aesthetic reasons. As well as those who do not want it to break immersion. I wanna see my sexy *** piloting my mech once in a while ya know?!

Seeing the overwhelming answers for no on your poll leads me to realize that you have not given enough thought into the options available for implementing a 3rd person view feature.

Instead of saying yes do it, no don't do it, and I don't care... only 3 options total, you should add more options for the actual way it is implemented.

Allow us to have a 3rd person view, but ONLY a view of your own mech from the front of it looking back.

Can blur or hide the surroundings around your own mech (like a sniper scope view in Crysis) so that it does not give an unrealistic advantage to look behind your mech easily.

Another implementation could be a rotating uncontrollable 3rd person camera (very much like the one in The Elder Scrolls series) that rotates slowly around your mech so you can check out that sexy hunk of metal.

What should NOT be done is the implementation of a 3rd person view that is fully controllable WITH the aiming reticle still visible.

Bottom line: If it can't be done right, then don't do it at all.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Rumjaku, on 25 January 2013 - 03:26 PM, said:

Bottom line: If it can't be done right, then don't do it at all.

this is the part that matters, it can NEVER be done 'right' so that it presents NO tactical advantage, that would include facing the camera AT the mech looking behind it, this would present a tactical advantage, as the radar IF it can be CALLED that, looks ONLY forward, so it covers the face, the camera the rear, voila, advantage. yet another reason to NOT have it.

[gunghoblazes]

I like to have the camera in essenstially what is a drone mode to allow me to look over hills and see what your team is doing. By no means is 1st person viewing even viable. I love cheat hate stuff....

[So who took Pilot Name as a name]

Rejarial Galatan, on 25 January 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

get real yourself. we refuse to see this game tanked by the absurd addition to a mechanic that WILL fundamentally alter this game on its most basic of levels that will do so much damage to it in our eyes, that it will ultimately spell the end of this game. We want this game to live, and if that means making poll after poll with our dissent, then so be it.

Well then, thanks for that reality check. I thought it was a topic that, since it rose so many ''opinions'' and valid points about a specific feature (ei: focusing on not having 3rd person in), would be open to how, or why, people... people who also don't want unfair advantages to be added in the game, could support the OTHER feature (being, adding 3rd person) by giving ''opinions'' as well, or even, suggestions on how it could be done right.

Your statement clears things out: you want to keep on raging about how wrong it would be if it was added the wrong way. And hey, if I too thought - and narrowed my vision only to expect that - it was to be done in the very way I imagine the feature to be ''unfair'', I'd be against adding that feature as well.

I mean, after all, the concerns are legitimate as it isn't only ''fear'' of the balance of the entire game being thrown out the window that pushes one to be against such a feature. It's, as mentioned left and right, concerns motivated by very real and tangible dishonorable advantages 3rd person add... concerns I share too.

... but why do I keep this up? I was only about to repeat myself yet again, and what you want isn't a solution: when presented with one, you lose your cause to vent; so to rebut the solution is your only option. Or, you are more down to Earth when it comes to the devs' capabilities of ''doing things right'' and it is I who is putting too much faith in the thought of having them ''not screw that one up''.

So what is it, where am I right and where am I wrong? By all means, enlighten me.

Edited by So who took Pilot Name as a name, 25 January 2013 - 07:02 PM.

[thehwdge]

maybe if they add a drone like the one we saw in the mechwarrior trailer that could be shot down

[Rejarial Galatan]

So who took Pilot Name as a name, on 25 January 2013 - 06:59 PM, said:

<snip>

I am not imagining some dark fantasy here. All you gotta do to see what is WRONG with 3rd person for a fast example is just check out MW4 from mektek. Pop Tarting, seeing over and around obstacles with no risk to yourself, locking the game into a SINGLE way to play to be competitive. THIS is the future that awaits this game if PGI ignores us and adds in a feature that will fundamentally alter this game on its most basic of levels. IF that is not enough for you, do yourself a favor, check this out:

taken from mwomercs.com/game

scroll down to the last section on the page:
and I quote:
How does game play work?
MechWarrior Online puts MechWarriors into a FIRST PERSON..... I have bolded, highlighted and italicized text relevant to the point. IF that is not enough to prove to you why 3rd person Point of View camera's are bad for this game, check out Paul's OWN words:


direct copy/paste from PAUL INOUYE's OWN post on this subject:


Posted 17 July 2012 - 12:36 PM

POPULAR


MechWarrior Online is being designed to put you the player in the seat of the pilot. It is 100% first person view only. Being the pilot is one of our key design pillars and 3rd person breaks that pillar on multiple levels as seen in many of the other 3rd Person discussions.

We will investigate 3rd person in the far off distance for special game settings, but this is very far off in the distance.

While we appreciate those who enjoy 3rd person, MWO will be 1st person out of the gate and in the near future.

-Paul
Lead Designer

edit: removed color codes from copy paste

Edited by Rejarial Galatan, 25 January 2013 - 08:11 PM.

[Faldrin]

Come on guys we need 3rd person view same as we need Orc's! Let's face it why pilot a Atlas when you can play a Orc with a axe!

There is so many things wrong with 3rd person in a game like this they really should just stop!

[Mimic]

Rejarial Galatan, on 25 January 2013 - 08:10 PM, said:

I am not imagining some dark fantasy here. All you gotta do to see what is WRONG with 3rd person for a fast example is just check out MW4 from mektek. Pop Tarting, seeing over and around obstacles with no risk to yourself, locking the game into a SINGLE way to play to be competitive. THIS is the future that awaits this game if PGI ignores us and adds in a feature that will fundamentally alter this game on its most basic of levels. IF that is not enough for you, do yourself a favor, check this out:

taken from mwomercs.com/game

scroll down to the last section on the page:
and I quote:
How does game play work?
MechWarrior Online puts MechWarriors into a FIRST PERSON..... I have bolded, highlighted and italicized text relevant to the point. IF that is not enough to prove to you why 3rd person Point of View camera's are bad for this game, check out Paul's OWN words:


direct copy/paste from PAUL INOUYE's OWN post on this subject:


Posted 17 July 2012 - 12:36 PM

POPULAR


MechWarrior Online is being designed to put you the player in the seat of the pilot. It is 100% first person view only. Being the pilot is one of our key design pillars and 3rd person breaks that pillar on multiple levels as seen in many of the other 3rd Person discussions.

We will investigate 3rd person in the far off distance for special game settings, but this is very far off in the distance.

While we appreciate those who enjoy 3rd person, MWO will be 1st person out of the gate and in the near future.

-Paul
Lead Designer

edit: removed color codes from copy paste

Just one question. Where did you read that it will NEVER be with 3D person?

Edited by Mimic aka Viper, 26 January 2013 - 05:38 AM.

[Telemetry]

If they are still seriously considering this, then they have a serious problem with their game design mentality. If they can't learn from the major mistakes of past games, then there is no hope.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Rejarial Galatan, on 25 January 2013 - 08:10 PM, said:

direct copy/paste from PAUL INOUYE's OWN post on this subject:


Posted 17 July 2012 - 12:36 PM

POPULAR


MechWarrior Online is being designed to put you the player in the seat of the pilot. It is 100% first person view only. Being the pilot is one of our key design pillars and 3rd person breaks that pillar on multiple levels as seen in many of the other 3rd Person discussions.

We will investigate 3rd person in the far off distance for special game settings, but this is very far off in the distance.

While we appreciate those who enjoy 3rd person, MWO will be 1st person out of the gate and in the near future.

-Paul
Lead Designer

sadly someone then contradicted that statement and thats why the argument started lol

Mimic aka Viper, on 26 January 2013 - 05:37 AM, said:

Just one question. Where did you read that it will NEVER be with 3D person?

Quote

MechWarrior Online is being designed to put you the player in the seat of the pilot. It is 100% first person view only.

FIRST sentence read much?

Faldrin, on 26 January 2013 - 05:28 AM, said:

Come on guys we need 3rd person view same as we need Orc's! Let's face it why pilot a Atlas when you can play a Orc with a axe!

There is so many things wrong with 3rd person in a game like this they really should just stop!

Its not an orc but yeah I want axes in game dont you?

Hell, I even want Orcs in the game

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Orc

[Livewyr]

Bhael Fire, on 23 January 2013 - 10:40 PM, said:

Third person in TRAINING MODE ONLY.

Do not allow players to chose which camera setting to use outside of that.

Didn't vote because this option wasn't there.

[Mimic]

You know i read much. And at the moment it is absolutely true,this game is ONLY FPS *simulator* BUT - nowhere is it said that it would NEVER be 3D person view.
If I only play this game it does not mean that I will never play another game.

Edited by Mimic aka Viper, 26 January 2013 - 09:45 AM.