424 replies to this topic

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Joseph Mallan, on 25 January 2013 - 09:07 AM, said:

The techs obviously! I'm just a pilot I don't do the repairs also!

then who pilots it next drop? Youre dead and this isnt EVE

[MischiefSC]

Ammo. I'd have enough to last me through 2 or 3 kills, then just count on dying and respawning. It'd change everything and not for the better .

[Thirdstar]

Joseph Mallan, on 25 January 2013 - 09:07 AM, said:

Oh I agree the crying is legendary. I have shook my head as I watched it grow over the last decade.


The techs obviously! I'm just a pilot I don't do the repairs also!

Still, ultimately there has to be a certain amount of gameplay/lore segregation. And I'm almost certain you don't share my opinion that gameplay should always trump lore/realism.

But that's a subjective discussion for another time.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Draven Knightfall, on 25 January 2013 - 09:10 AM, said:

This game, this whole genre, caters to an fairly exclusive audience, to be honest. It's always been a patient, plodding, methodical game where you have to weigh the risks and rewards of almost every action in a constant basis. That's the draw. It's a wargame, made to represent a possible futuristic version of battle. You die, you are dead. Your mech loses a weapon, you don't fire it. Your mech is destroyed, it's not coming back. They had to make a few allowances for respawns going match to match, but that is just to give a certain viability to MMO play. It doesn't, and shouldn't, translate to in game play.

Adding in respawns changes that in a very fundamental game, and a lot of the draw. It certainly does draw those in who aren't satisfied with that system and enjoy a more loose risk/reward scheme and less permanent consequences, but that isn't what this genre has ever been about. Dropships and larger battles do fit the genre well, and are already very well explained and accepted, so that compromise I'm failry certain will be eventually adapted to the game itself. But even in that instance, there is a risk of running out of mechs, dying off, and being sidelined. You still have to weigh the risks of tagging a heavy lance vs the reward of holding a lock for your missle boats long enough to get a volley off before running away. But the risk is permanent, you go down, you don't come back. You get spotted by that lance and eat a few PPC's and Lasers to the face, you come back in your own assault, but the entire dynamic of the match has changed. You can't turtle a point with infinate respawns until an arbitrary timer is achieved. That doesn't fit this genre or this game, and that's why a pure respawn match shouldn't be adapted for this game. That is also why you see people saying things like "go play those games" because quite frankly, that's not what this game has ever been about. Every decision comes with an inherent risk, and permanent death is a major part of it. Removing that removes a fundamental part of this game and why the fans that have stuck with it for so many years.

It doesn't encompass a huge volume of people, but I'm pretty sure the creators of this endeavor knew that. It never has. The fans it has retained are fanatical, however. Adapting a mode that doesn't really fit the genre will alienate a great deal of fanatical fans and will create a FOTM FPS that won't last to the end of the clan wars, all to appease the fewer that would come in and leave as the next FOTM is launched. It's just not good for the longevity of the game.

the creators also have plans for a four mech limited respawn mode theyre calling dropship mode where you choose 4 mechs to take into combat one at a time.

[Joseph Mallan]

I'll disagree with you Mad but for one reason. We are not that far into the game.We have 4 maps with different ambiance, 1/3 a TRO worth of mechs. No CW... No true missions. IF respawn was to be added to the game, now would be a good time to install it.

[Tarman]

One other point made earlier, though in a more nasty way. The scale both in size and time are too small to hold respawning and any kind of mindful play in the same mode. If the battle were a 25-klick battle front with 5 timed respawn locations I wouldn't care at all, that would be fun. The current timescale is too short to really need a respawn, and the current battlefield scale is too small, regardless of what kind of game this is supposed to eventually be. Even as a game intending to go into a deathmatch only game this is too small to fit in a respawn mechanic without it devolving into Insert Mech, Press Alpha.

[Thirdstar]

Happy to see some constructive discussion at last. I disagree with some agree with others, but at least there's dialogue.

[Draven Knightfall]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 25 January 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

the creators also have plans for a four mech limited respawn mode theyre calling dropship mode where you choose 4 mechs to take into combat one at a time.

I spoke briefly about that. It's in the middle.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 25 January 2013 - 09:11 AM, said:

then who pilots it next drop? Youre dead and this isnt EVE

No Im not! I'm Victor Steiner Davion's stunt double! I can and do survive Gauss rounds to the cockpit.

Destruction of the Mech does not mean death of the pilot otherwise Vlad Ward would not have lived to have a love affair with Vic's sister! If it did there would be a lot less Heroes in the Canon. All of them have been in a destroyed Mech and lived. What they didn't do was get up dust off and climb back into the saddle and continue the fight without a trip to medical!

[Thirdstar]

Joseph Mallan, on 25 January 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

Vlad Ward would not have lived to have a love affair with Vic's sister!

Sssssshhhhh spoilers!

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Draven Knightfall, on 25 January 2013 - 09:16 AM, said:

I spoke briefly about that. It's in the middle.

sorry you say the same thing over and over and over so I coldnt be expected to re-read that you dont want respawns over and over.
could you summarize that part, I cant see it

also; we're not seeing the whole of the game, being that this is a beta AND a F2P beta so that makes things all different, they could be planning on using dropship mode MORE then one mech drop and we just havent seen it yet because they havent figured out how to code it yet, but they dont have it in because they want to test one on one balance and beta what we have before making it more complicated

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 25 January 2013 - 09:23 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Thirdstar, on 25 January 2013 - 09:19 AM, said:

Sssssshhhhh spoilers!

[Draven Knightfall]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 25 January 2013 - 09:19 AM, said:

sorry you say the same thing over and over and over so I coldnt be expected to re-read that you dont want respawns over and over.
could you summarize that part, I cant see it

If you want to be taken seriously in a discussion, even in an on-line thread, you should learn to read first.

[Mongoose Trueborn]

It can and might be good for a different game mode. I see no harm in having the option to do what you want. An arena fight with a timer and unlimited respawns would be a blast imo.

Edited by Mongoose Trueborn, 25 January 2013 - 09:22 AM.

[stjobe]

So there we were, my lance-mates and I; four battle-hardened MechWarriors, with our 'mechs in pristine fighting condition. Somewhere on the other side of that ridge-line were our enemy - as tough and devious as they come. It was going to be a rough fight.

*Battle is joined, 'mechs explode, LRMs and arms go flying. It's chaos*

Whew! That was a close one! Only two of us still standing; me without arms, and my sole surviving lance-mate out of ammo. But we won! We carried the day! Now to savour the spoils of that victory!

Hang on a minute... I've got contacts on my battlegrid... Looks like the very same enemies we just killed are.. Back? What kind of sorcery is this? Their 'mechs are as new and now they're outnumbering us 4-2. What the hell is this? Some kind of sick joke?

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Draven Knightfall, on 25 January 2013 - 09:20 AM, said:

If you want to be taken seriously in a discussion, even in an on-line thread, you should learn to read first.

or maybe dont repeat yourself ad nauseum and use that repetition as the basis for your argument.

"I dont think this should be in the game because I dont think it should be in there because it changes the nature or the game so I dont think it should be in there because I dont want it in the game because it changes the nature of the game.... etc"

sorry Im human I only have so much patience to read about the dog chasing its own tail

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 25 January 2013 - 09:26 AM.

[Thirdstar]

Draven Knightfall, on 25 January 2013 - 09:20 AM, said:

If you want to be taken seriously in a discussion, even in an on-line thread, you should learn to read first.

The opposition majorly seems to be NO RESPAWNS EVER. Not maybe respawns given X, Y, Z.

I have to respectfully point out that nothing in your description is the sole property of the Mechwarrior franchise, similarly engaging, thoughtful, skill-based tactical gameplay can be found in a variety of games that include respawn. I hazard to say that many can be superior in certain circumstances.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

stjobe, on 25 January 2013 - 09:21 AM, said:

So there we were, my lance-mates and I; four battle-hardened MechWarriors, with our 'mechs in pristine fighting condition. Somewhere on the other side of that ridge-line were our enemy - as tough and devious as they come. It was going to be a rough fight.

*Battle is joined, 'mechs explode, LRMs and arms go flying. It's chaos*

Whew! That was a close one! Only two of us still standing; me without arms, and my sole surviving lance-mate out of ammo. But we won! We carried the day! Now to savour the spoils of that victory!

Hang on a minute... I've got contacts on my battlegrid... Looks like the very same enemies we just killed are.. Back? What kind of sorcery is this? Their 'mechs are as new and now they're outnumbering us 4-2. What the hell is this? Some kind of sick joke?

Right cause theres NO SUCH THING EVER as reinforcements in a battle simulation. It HAS to be sorcery
OH wait, I even remember missions where you were BEING reinforcements in MW4...
what one was it where halfway through the battle the bad guys offer you more money and you can join their side? I loved that mission.

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 25 January 2013 - 09:29 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Draven Knightfall, on 25 January 2013 - 09:20 AM, said:

If you want to be taken seriously in a discussion, even in an on-line thread, you should learn to read first.

Though we don't always agree, Buddah is one of the more(most) respectable debaters on the form. It is a fail on your part to try to belittle him.


ThirdStar, You're in there with Buddah!

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Joseph Mallan, on 25 January 2013 - 09:28 AM, said:

Though we don't always agree, Buddah is one of the more(most) respectable debaters on the form. It is a fail on your part to try to belittle him.


ThirdStar, You're in there with Buddah!

wow if thats true I weep for the forum, Im terrible at arguing lol