155 replies to this topic

[Kousagi]

Thirdstar, on 25 January 2013 - 10:51 PM, said:

It's very very doubtful that we'll see anything more than 12 vs 12 this year.

I think 12v12 will be the highest it goes for quite some time. Thats even if they want to go more then 12v12. Will never expect for them to pull off the feats that CCP can... Not sure any other company can really compete with them in the MMO world.

[Thirdstar]

Kousagi, on 25 January 2013 - 10:54 PM, said:

I think 12v12 will be the highest it goes for quite some time. Thats even if they want to go more then 12v12. Will never expect for them to pull off the feats that CCP can... Not sure any other company can really compete with them in the MMO world.

As much as I would like something like WoTs 15 vs 15, I have to agree it just doesn't seem likely.

[Rokuzachi]

Thirdstar, on 25 January 2013 - 10:58 PM, said:

As much as I would like something like WoTs 15 vs 15, I have to agree it just doesn't seem likely.

I'd love to see big teams, but the maps would need to get muuuuch larger IMO. Like 16v16, you'd deploy on a map large enough to have 4 separate lance deployments spread out per side. I'm talking like no group of 4 starts close than 1000-1500m from eachother. Would be nuts!

On the subject of big matches, I'd give my left eye for triple-team matches. 3 teams of 8, on special maps built for it of course. Nothing like some three-way warfare to spice things up! I'd be ecstatic even if it were some form of "Custom Game" that yielded less rewards to the participants, and was primarily used for fun/bragging rights/clans to set up fun games with eachother.

Ah well, I can dream.

While I'm letting my brain dribble out onto the forum, I'll say that I think accommodating more than 2 teams in some match type is a direction that at least one of these match based competitive games should try. I'm guessing some of you here remember the golden days of DAoC? Well, in 8v8v8, you don't have to worry about pop imbalances screwing one side over, since you only have 8 per team. Let the good times roll!

Edited by Rokuzachi, 25 January 2013 - 11:17 PM.

[GalaxyBluestar]

Thirdstar, on 25 January 2013 - 10:11 PM, said:

Do goons often SURGE forth and EXPLODE on forums?

seems so................................

[Archphor]

Taking in all that the Devs have said about CW it seems like the frame work from MechAssult 2's Conquest multiplayer mode, with extra features.
for anyone who didnt play MA2 i found an old article on the conquest mode here. http://previews.team...2-Lone-Wolf/p2/

[Texas Merc]

The way it will be setup... Goons wont matter.

It might hurt their feelings or something.

[zmeul]

even if it's 12vs12, there may be up to few dozen matches played simultaneously on the same machine in the cluster with few hundred matches fought simultaneously on the entire cluster

WoT EU server is in a situation where peak numbers causes massive lag on the server and makes the matches unplayable
at this point it's uncertain if it's the cluster at fault or the host has reached it's bandwidth limits
either way, it's bad for the players

Edited by zmeul, 26 January 2013 - 01:29 AM.

[Norris J Packard]

It won't matter. PGI's plans for CW and the future are nothing like the persistent system that enables hundreds or thousands of players to log in at once for a game.

[Tabrias07]

You all do realize this isn't an mmo? and CW is all metagame stuff?

[zmeul]

Tabrias07, on 26 January 2013 - 01:30 AM, said:

You all do realize this isn't an mmo? and CW is all metagame stuff?

WoT isn't a MMO either, but that doesn't mean the server can handle the 170000+ simultaneous players

[Norris J Packard]

zmeul, on 26 January 2013 - 01:55 AM, said:

WoT isn't a MMO either, but that doesn't mean the server can handle the 170000+ simultaneous players

Do you honestly believe that MWO will ever hit that? Really?

[Wescott]

Tice Daurus, on 25 January 2013 - 08:03 PM, said:

I was playing Planetside 2 tonight.

GASP! Yes I know I was playing another game besides MW:O. Sacrilidge, I know. Tonight they had a capture the map game.

Now I know, how does this relate to Mechwarrior: Online? Bear with me, this might be a bit long, but I promise I'll get to my point.

The problems were that as usual, the Goons had their team on there and they were dominating the game. Not only were they using their forces, but they were logging on to other forces teams and then placing blocks in entrance doorways for the launching points to keep other teams stalled so they could get an unfair advantage. But the worst...was that their servers couldn't handle the MASSIVE amount of people on there, causing for incredible lag problems. There were 1 hour wait times to jump from one area to the next. It was brutally bad.

Now, granted, the GOONS were not the problem. The problem...the lack of server space. They had SOOOOOOO many people on there for this event, the servers could not handle the massive amounts of changes from teams, massively LARGE teams moving from one area to the next. It was TERRIBLE. Now...how does that apply to MW:O?

Simple. My fear is that I do not believe that one server will be able to handle one area for Community Warfare. You'd have to have the best and most expensive blade servers out there all interwoven together. AND then, you're going to have to somehow tie those servers into other servers across the globe to handle massive Inner Sphere changes. Oh sure, I know right now you guys are going to be starting small, with only about 100 worlds or so that will be able to change hands. But each world is going to be massive, and each world will have hundreds of forces fighting on one world. Tie it all in that they will be all interwoven, and it's going to be pure CHAOS.

My problem is say you get a force from South Korean players attacking a force in the US or the UK. It's going to be hell trying to get those two forces to fight together and then get the proper results without massive lag interfereance, PLUS be capable of handling a sudden massive rush of other players joining in to create serveral THOUSAND people or more on ONE SERVER world.

The reason why I'm pointing this out is because I work in the Telecom industry and I've also worked in Data Center hubs.

You are absolutely going to need TOP of the line servers to handle this. I'm warning you guys in advance of what to expect because I know. I've got 15+ years of experience to back it up and know what I'm talking about.

Look, I'm not going to ask for specifics of how your system works. That's IGP's department, and I'm leaving that between you and them. What I am saying is whatever deal you have with IGP...if this sucker takes off, like you and I expect it will, and we've done the server stress tests, whatever you might THINK is acceptable, give yourself a buffer zone. If you think you need say, hypothetically 400 servers, add at least 25 percent more for mass overflow for major events. Because when they come into play, ESPECIALLY for Community Warfare hits, you guys are going to NEED the extra servers that can handle the capacity. Or else people are going to do what they did in Planetside 2 did tonight. A TON of people from one side...they just UP and QUIT out of frustration. They left. Like I did.

Anyway, I'm going to be taking this and posting this also on the General Discussion boards, but I wanted to put this out there to FOREWARN you guys that you are going to HAVE to be prepared for the massive crush of people that will be playing when Community Warfare hits the game.

You've been told. It's not a threat. It's a forewarning to keep PGI from making the same mistakes that Sony made tonight. And I'm not trying to post this to be a dbag or try and hurt PGI. That's not my intent. My intent is to get you guys at PGI to listen so you know to watch out for this and try and cut this in the bud AHEAD of time. The old saying stands...

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of CURE.

Thanks.

I understand and mainly agree, and if the player base grows to what we all hope it to be then yes they will need much better hardware resources, for example CCP run Eve online with 30 to 45k+ active pilots in a single world environment at any one time and as a long standing player in that world, they have stated their need to have to make significant investments in hardware over time, which was done, But! Their MMOG was already established with a large player base, not one still in Beta, so yes it can be done if/when needed the key element or bottom line is MONEY,
I am sure that investment will be forthcoming, when it is justified, however that and the timing is down to PGI and maybe others and will have to take into account how many actual players there are, and how many are realistically projected to be on board to generate a reasonable return on those and other investment costs.

Edited by Wescott, 26 January 2013 - 02:01 AM.

[zmeul]

Norris J Packard, on 26 January 2013 - 01:59 AM, said:

Do you honestly believe that MWO will ever hit that? Really?

does it even matter?! 170K or 50K is still plausible, and if servers aren't scaled as such ...

take EVE for example, there are currently 30K users on-line playing, the numbers aren't that great
but EVE is hosted on the most complex cluster an MMO has ever seen, CCP even had to develop new ways to keep up with the massive player spikes in system via "time dilation"
Jita alone is hosted on it's own machine in the cluster

Edited by zmeul, 26 January 2013 - 02:15 AM.

[Texas Merc]

May the Forst be With Us.

[Yokaiko]

Tuku, on 25 January 2013 - 08:25 PM, said:

EvE is a single server that handles thousands in the same area at the same time fairly well. Lag is a problem in any large game that allows lots of people to play on the internet. It is going to happen.

Eve's server clusters are top of the line. You have to get into custom build super computers to get much better.

Edited by Yokaiko, 26 January 2013 - 03:10 AM.

[Norris J Packard]

zmeul, on 26 January 2013 - 02:09 AM, said:

does it even matter?! 170K or 50K is still plausible, and if servers aren't scaled as such ...

take EVE for example, there are currently 30K users on-line playing, the numbers aren't that great
but EVE is hosted on the most complex cluster an MMO has ever seen, CCP even had to develop new ways to keep up with the massive player spikes in system via "time dilation"
Jita alone is hosted on it's own machine in the cluster

Which is all persistent and in real-time. This isn't.

[Rannos]

BerryChunks, on 25 January 2013 - 10:34 PM, said:

Goons didnt create 4chan and goons are exploiters.

The origin of 4chan

4chan really goes back to a board called Something Awful, a major source of Internet culture in the early '00s. Some time between 18th April 2001 and 15th May 2001, SA added an anime board called ADTRW to separate the anime chat from the other boards. Members of ADTRW started Raspberry Heaven, a DC++ filesharing hub for anime, named for the ending theme to a 2002 series called Azumanga Daioh. Raspberry Heaven was itself a spinoff of SADCHUB, the Something Awful Direct Connect Hub, created to separate the anime from the serious business.
The Raspberry Heaven anime hub had a linked IRC channel, originally at the MircX network but later Pyoko IRC. Here, moot and several ADTRW members were regulars. RH discovered 2chan.net, a Japanese image board, and for a while the channel was full of 2chan image links. 2chan itself is named after 2channel (2ch.net), the unrelated text-based image board featured in the film and TV series Densha Otoko.
At some point, 2chan blocked non-Japanese from posting. At the time we thought this was to keep out us English-posting gaijin devils, but I think it later turned out they were blocking trolls from South Korea. moot, at this point just an average hub member, registered the site's original domain, 4chan.net.
<moot> regging 4CHAN.net
<moot> FOUR CHAN
<moot> brace for faggotry
<Negi-Sensei> What is the difference between 4chan and 2chan?
<n0> 2
<Lost_Technology> 4chan is twice as good.
<moot> its TWO TIMES THE CHAN **********
<Lost_Technology> Did someone seriously register 4chan?
<n0> Time for 8chan.

[http://www.jonnydigi.../4chan-history]

It started back in 2003 (a long time ago in Internet terms), on Somethingawful.com. A poster to the comedy website named "moot" started an anime-based photo-sharing site called 4chan.org. Much to their chagrin, most of what people posted were cute pictures of their pets, particularly cats.

[http://www.thestar.c.../article/257955]

Please check your facts next time, son.

Edited by Rannos, 26 January 2013 - 05:17 AM.

[zmeul]

Norris J Packard, on 26 January 2013 - 03:28 AM, said:

Which is all persistent and in real-time. This isn't.

again, does it matter?! no it doesn't
WoT is perfect example of non persistent multiplayer done on a cluster that can and will fail if it's not properly scaled

Edited by zmeul, 26 January 2013 - 05:24 AM.

[Justa Dogtrooper]

Comunity warfare will not be like World of Warcraft.....
It will be more in line with World of Tanks.....
100 worlds, means 100 maps (unique I hope).
Battles will be scheduled and qued up.
Battles will probably be a mixture of 12x12 (in testing now) and 8x8.....
Pugs will not be included...
There will be no MASS battles...

Just a few predictions based on months of trawling through here.

Not sure how the bidding system will work ?

[Mawai]

Dukarriope, on 25 January 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

And I still don't know what people mean when they talk about Goons here...

Its an EVE online thing ... Goons ... GoonFleet, GoonSwarm ... is a large player organization in EVE which controls a large area of space itself and is allied with others controlling probably a majority of the space where player organizations can gain control. They are known for organized activities impacting other players ... manipulating mineral market prices ... organizing events to destroy player ships in the sections of the game where the systems are owned by NPC entities and killing other players ships incurs a penalty.

The key is organization. Apparently, they have a presence in other online games like MW:O and PS2. The design of MW:O doesn't lend itself to the level of organization they often employ except possibly the sync drop mechanic. On the other hand, it sounds like some aspects of PS2 can be used by organized large groups to gain a useful ingame advantage.