371 replies to this topic

[CECILOFS]

dervishx5, on 01 February 2013 - 01:52 AM, said:

Fact is, if you use a 6 SRM6 A1, you're just another typical tryhard; you depend on the OP weapon of the month to get by rather than actual skill.

To that I respond: Have you actually tried it? Do so and tell me it requires no skill. SRMs are dumbfire so you need at least some accuracy to hit with them, as well as skill/tactics in positioning correctly so you can deal damage and not get owned in return.

Eh I only use it occaisionally for a laugh. I usually don't do very well with it, but sometimes I can clean up an enemy Pug team (I usually only Pug).

The reason I don't like it is that its so 1-dimensional. You either get close and own someone, or you get destroyed from 500m away. Or you get found by a Raven and they take your ears off before you can land a volley on them.

I think that after PPC heat gets reduced (fingers crossed for next patch!) and Machine Gun damage increases, you will see more PPC K2s running around. I really like the stock build but just can't enjoy it due to the PPC heat being too high and MG damage being too low. Sure you can use it without the MG but then I like filling up all my hard points. Atm unless you really like PPC and can handle the heat, the AC/Gauss builds are the only option for the chassis.

[dervishx5]

You only need to hit once with it. It requires little skill.

[CECILOFS]

dervishx5, on 01 February 2013 - 02:02 AM, said:

You only need to hit once with it. It requires little skill.

True you can 1 shot a light. But they are not easy to hit going 100+ KPH.

Anything else needs at least 2 shots, Assaults need 3-5 depending on your missile spread. Did you get the part about overheating after ~3 shots?

I can tell you from first hand experience, its hard to solo an Atlas in one, even if you get the jump on them. Of course, more skilled players than me will do better as I am pretty average.

[Anjin]

I've done my time in Cats, and just finished Mastering out the Stalkers I'm going to keep. So now, until something else hits that I really want (still waffling on picking up an Hback or three), I'm just playing my favorite mech: my K2. I'm not a huge fan of boating, so I'm not playing the 4LL, the 2AC20, the 2 Gauss. I like the versatility of the K2, and have a nice fast AC20/4ML. I've been debating picking up a 2nd K2 in anticipation of the PPC changes.

[CECILOFS]

Anjin, on 01 February 2013 - 02:31 AM, said:

I've been debating picking up a 2nd K2 in anticipation of the PPC changes.

Interesting. Is it that annoying for you to swap loadouts when you want to?

[dervishx5]

Would be cool if we could save variants for... variants. That way we didn't have to spend time swapping out. A luxury feature, sure, but one that would be nice.

[Biruke]

i'm just getting the basics for A1. It's a hell of a job. You must get real close to get the chance to fire your srms. And while you're doing that, you're burnt down most of the time.

But, sometimes. in very tight places like the ice tunnel - it's extremely deadly. Last night I managed to kill a Cataphract in the hole in the tunnel and down to the enemy side. In the end I was alone against almost the whole enemy team and still managed to kick out the cataphract. You say it's easy. I say I had yellow screen at that time

[Dr Killinger]

Alex Wolfe, on 31 January 2013 - 06:39 AM, said:

It's a tad off-topic, but the reason I like the idea of size limited hardpoints is that it gives mechs more of their identity. Various configs are already stepping on each other's toes, after a while there will be no niche in the game already filled by one of the variants of one of the mechs. Not to mention that we already have literally no reason to add specialist mechs like Hollander or Urbanmech (Raven 4x can handle gauss, even AC20) or Panther (Jenner can mount PPCs just fine) and such.

Versatility sounds nice from a "consumer" standpoint, but IS mechs were not built to be "versatile". They have variants for specific roles. Versatility is Clan forte. Limited hardpoints would give more reason to keep producing, buying and leveling mechs as well. As it is now, one glance at a newly announced mech's hardpoints often tells us that "okay but mech X already is in the game that does it better".

I believe size-limited hardpoints would be better for the game variety and longevity. Stopping (or at least curbing) some cheese is only a bonus.

Quoting this so more people read it. Spot on. It can only be good for the game.

[Jakob Knight]

Dr Killinger, on 01 February 2013 - 03:05 AM, said:

Quoting this so more people read it. Spot on. It can only be good for the game.

Saying that removing player's options and range of actions is 'only good for the game' is wrong. Any time you add restrictions to what players can do merely to restrict them, you are degrading your game, not improving it.

Especially if it's based on nothing more than players' bais on the part of those players who can't get past the appearance of a 'mech. Doubly so if they won't accept the same treatment for their own favorite 'mech (how many Cataphract pilots would accept a limit of 0 degrees of arm transverse to the left because the gun on the right torso keeps the right arm from moving past it?).

The point of the mechlab is to allow players to come up with the various types of variants possible in 'mech engineering without the Devs needing to code each and every one. Just looking at the rate they are producing the basic mechs in the game, and think what it would take to make each and every model for each and every kind of modification possible to each and every 'mech. It's unneeded when a simple modification system allows for that already, and players will know what weapons they are facing anyway long before they can come close enough to see the individual weapons.

Lastly, it is the diversity of options and actions that makes a game greater or lesser than others. Those games that allow the players the most possibilities in action and choice are the highest levels of gaming (CoX, SWG, ect.), while those who see restricting what players can do and how much they can do (SWTOR) are those serious gamers toss aside and avoid. Why? Because the level of challenge is inversely proportional to the level of control. If you want the best game possible, it needs only the level of control needed for fair gameplay, and no further. Adding additional control just to satisfy some players who don't want to deal with challenge, or want a particular item out of the game purely because it allows different options from the item that they have selected to use. is purposely degrading your game, not improving it.

The idea that dumbing down the game or forcing players to purchase additional 'mechs solely to make players not using those mechs feel better is not 'better for the game'.

[NRP]

I seem to run into SRM Cats all the time. Yes, it can be annoying, mostly because they are so fast not many things can out run them. No, I don't want the A1 nerfed. One aspect of MWO that I really like is that you can run some crazy special purpose builds. I wouldn't want this fun aspect taken away just because I get owned by an SRM A1 every now and again.

[Piranha]

Ok so I haven't had time to play since last patch (and won't have for another week), so maybe my information is outdated...

So I have just one question: if it's torso twist gives the CPLT such a huge advantage, then why do (ok, did...) I not see significantly more Catapults than Cataphracts and Dragons in the game? Ok, there are certainly fewer Dragons, especially before Fang/Flame, but that is certainly a harder Mech to master than a CPLT, no matter which layout.
But ever since the Cataphract was introduced, I've seen roughly as many Phracts as Cats in my Battles.

[LoneUnknown]

Edited by LoneUnknown, 01 February 2013 - 09:15 AM.

[LaserAngel]

Piranha, on 01 February 2013 - 08:42 AM, said:

Ok so I haven't had time to play since last patch (and won't have for another week), so maybe my information is outdated...

So I have just one question: if it's torso twist gives the CPLT such a huge advantage, then why do (ok, did...) I not see significantly more Catapults than Cataphracts and Dragons in the game? Ok, there are certainly fewer Dragons, especially before Fang/Flame, but that is certainly a harder Mech to master than a CPLT, no matter which layout.
But ever since the Cataphract was introduced, I've seen roughly as many Phracts as Cats in my Battles.

Though we won this match, probably due to ConnorSinclair, on Frozen City I dropped into a match with 4 Founder's Catapults on my team and then 2 SRMCats, 1 Gauss Cat, and a near vanilla Catapult C1 on the enemy.

Cataphracts are about as bad as the Awesome when it comes to hitting the CT/ST. The Dragon is a complete joke.

Edited by LaserAngel, 01 February 2013 - 09:09 AM.

[focuspark]

No - Yes

Because CPLT are fine as is, and the torso twist doesn't really mean a damn thing. BUT I do have to say that if the torso twists less, the arms need to free up to "keep it inline with other heavy mechs". Just say'n.

[Suki]

dervishx5, on 01 February 2013 - 01:52 AM, said:

Fact is, if you use a 6 SRM6 A1, you're just another typical tryhard; you depend on the OP weapon of the month to get by rather than actual skill.

Use just some of your brain at least.
Fact is that you can't use anything except ssrm,srm,lrm on A1.
Fact is Course of ECM in pugs people can't use streaks and LRM (most people just don't bother touching button "R").
Fact is the only thing is left - SRM.

[Jakob Knight]

Suki, on 01 February 2013 - 10:09 AM, said:

Use just some of your brain at least.
Fact is that you can't use anything except ssrm,srm,lrm on A1.
Fact is Course of ECM in pugs people can't use streaks and LRM (most people just don't bother touching button "R").
Fact is the only thing is left - SRM.

Fact is....there are players in the game who think anything but a gun is 'not supposed to be dangerous', and really shouldn't even be in the game. These Counterstrike players have never understood anything other than FPS mindsets, and so anything that uses missiles is bad.

You are a bad player if you use LRMs.
You are a bad player if you use SRMs.
You are a bad player if you use SSRMs.

You are a great player if you use UAC/5s.
You are a great player if you use AC/20s.
You are a great player if you use Gauss Rifles
You are a great player if you use Lasers.

In short, you will never satisfy the players who cannot see MWO except as a FPS brawling game.

[MegaBusta]

focuspark, on 01 February 2013 - 09:24 AM, said:

No - Yes

Because CPLT are fine as is, and the torso twist doesn't really mean a damn thing. BUT I do have to say that if the torso twists less, the arms need to free up to "keep it inline with other heavy mechs". Just say'n.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne..._heavy_catapult
Take a look at this. The catapult's torso twist range is further than the combined torso and arm range of every mech, except the hunchback and spider. It would make more sense if its torso range was further than the range of every mech with lower actuators, which it is, but that most of the mechs with lower actuators could reach further with their arms than the catapult's torso could. But most of them can't.

How exactly is this current implementation "In line with the other mechs"?

[Serapth]

Jakob Knight, on 01 February 2013 - 11:37 AM, said:

Fact is....there are players in the game who think anything but a gun is 'not supposed to be dangerous', and really shouldn't even be in the game. These Counterstrike players have never understood anything other than FPS mindsets, and so anything that uses missiles is bad.

You are a bad player if you use LRMs.
You are a bad player if you use SRMs.
You are a bad player if you use SSRMs.

You are a great player if you use UAC/5s.
You are a great player if you use AC/20s.
You are a great player if you use Gauss Rifles
You are a great player if you use Lasers.

In short, you will never satisfy the players who cannot see MWO except as a FPS brawling game.

Kinda hard to blame them when PGI basically pushed us down that road with the heavy handed ECM implementation.

[Serapth]

I have certainly seen a rise in SplatCats though, especially in 4 man cheese builds.

The same folks that used to ride Streakcats, switched to StreakRavens and with their nerf ( or more accurately, the ability to actually shoot them again ) have switched to Splatcats.

I think the game is going to always have a cheese build that 4mans gravitate towards, and that build is always going to work under swarm tactics. This of course would be why they are viewed as no-skill builds. Frankly, it doesnt take skill for 4 guys to facehump someone.

[xRatas]

CECILOFS, on 01 February 2013 - 02:34 AM, said:

Interesting. Is it that annoying for you to swap loadouts when you want to?

Don't know about him, but I certainly dislike messing with my mechs. So I have several of same variants. While at it, I have full sets of modules too on mechs I like, so I don't have to swap... OTOH, I don't have stupid looking atlai or ravens in my carage. I won't drive a mech that doesn't look good. So I save a lot of coin when not buying every mech available.

Edited by xRatas, 04 February 2013 - 10:07 AM.