25 replies to this topic

[Sadistic Savior]

If you convert to double heat sinks, does that mean the 10 "free" ones in your engine are double as well?

[Sajuk Kar]

Yes, it does. The ones in your engine, including the ones you can put in there if you have a 275 or larger engine (I think), are true 2.0 heat sinks. Meaning they give a 2.0 value to both dissipation and threshold. All the double heatsinks you put elsewhere in your mech outside the engine give 1.4 to dissipation and threshold.

[DDDs]

Sadistic Savior, on 29 January 2013 - 01:10 PM, said:

If you convert to double heat sinks, does that mean the 10 "free" ones in your engine are double as well?

Yes, correct me if I'm wrong, but when you upgrade to DHS, your 10 "free" engines change to double efficiency (2.0). Any other DHS you add extra onto the mech, including the DHS that larger size engines can hold will change to 1.4 efficiency.

Edit: Swift ninja, Sajuk Kar is..

Edited by DDDs, 29 January 2013 - 01:21 PM.

[Splinters]

No, all DHS' are 1.4x SHS efficiency. Both the engine ones and the external ones. 2.0 and 1.4 split was in the patch from last year, but was deemed "too OP" and bumped back down to 1.4 for both.

What the DHS provides at 2.0 is the heat capacity. Every mech comes with 30 heat capacity, and each engine DHS adds 2.0 heat capacity and every external DHS adds 1.4 heat capacity. So for instance if you had 14 heat sinks, 10 in the engine your heat capacity would be 30 + (10 * 2.0 + 4 * 1.4) =55.6 heat capacity before shutdown. For SHS, it is 1.0 heat capacity each, so 30 + SHS = heat capacity.

Hope that helps!

-S

[Tolkien]

Splinters I have to disagree since I swear I read that there was a "stealth change" to the way heat was displayed in the mechlab last patch. If I understand why this was done it was because the first 9 DHS in the engine of a mech are 2.0's while all others (whether inside the engine or outside the engine) are 1.4's. Basically the 2.0's were being properly applied in gameplay but the mechlab was improperly reporting their efficiency.

Wow this gets confusing in a hurry.

Edited by Tolkien, 29 January 2013 - 01:43 PM.

[Rofl]

Sajuk Kar, on 29 January 2013 - 01:20 PM, said:

Yes, it does. The ones in your engine, including the ones you can put in there if you have a 275 or larger engine (I think), are true 2.0 heat sinks. Meaning they give a 2.0 value to both dissipation and threshold. All the double heatsinks you put elsewhere in your mech outside the engine give 1.4 to dissipation and threshold.

This is correct. Any heat sinks in the engine are true 2.0. If you have a 250, then all 10 "free" sinks are 2.0, if you have a 275 like above, then if you throw another in the engine, it is 2.0. If you have a 200 engine, therefore only 8 inside, only 8 are true 2.0

Splinters, on 29 January 2013 - 01:39 PM, said:

No, all DHS' are 1.4x SHS efficiency. Both the engine ones and the external ones. 2.0 and 1.4 split was in the patch from last year, but was deemed "too OP" and bumped back down to 1.4 for both.

What the DHS provides at 2.0 is the heat capacity. Every mech comes with 30 heat capacity, and each engine DHS adds 2.0 heat capacity and every external DHS adds 1.4 heat capacity. So for instance if you had 14 heat sinks, 10 in the engine your heat capacity would be 30 + (10 * 2.0 + 4 * 1.4) =55.6 heat capacity before shutdown. For SHS, it is 1.0 heat capacity each, so 30 + SHS = heat capacity.

Hope that helps!

-S

This is wrong. It used to be that ALL DHS were 2.0 in internal tests, but that never went live. Instead they opted for what we have now. In mechlab, the heat efficiency used to show as though all DHS were 1.4, but was recently changed (I believe 2 weeks ago?) to show correct readings.

[Sadistic Savior]

So DHS also raise the limit at which your mech will shut down? Or do they just increase the rate at which you bleed off existing heat?

[Krellek]

Sadistic Savior, on 29 January 2013 - 02:09 PM, said:

So DHS also raise the limit at which your mech will shut down? Or do they just increase the rate at which you bleed off existing heat?

Both

had to confirm

Edited by Krellek, 29 January 2013 - 02:16 PM.

[Tolkien]

Krellek, on 29 January 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

Both

had to confirm

This is news to me - could you link to a description of this mechanic?

Sorry to doubt, it's just that in the source material and in past mechwarrior games to my knowledge Heatsinks/Double heatsinks have never affected how much heat capacity you have (I think the scale went to 30 units of heat on tabletop), just how fast you burn it off.

Edited by Tolkien, 29 January 2013 - 02:24 PM.

[Jaded Jasper]

Bloody hell this is confusing as ****!

It would be nice if a Dev somewhere could clarify how heatsinks /actually/ work, so were not left with guesswork, hearsay, and the occasional thorough but perhaps obsolete empirical testing. :-/

The opaque mechanics of this game are a real turn off.

[Krellek]

Tolkien, on 29 January 2013 - 02:22 PM, said:

This is news to me - could you link to a description of this mechanic?

Here is the post:

http://mwomercs.com/.../66086-archive/

I’d like to expand on some information from an earlier post and provide more details on Standard and Double Heat Sinks.

First, let’s take a look at a Standard Heat Sink. It’s a pretty basic piece of equipment that weighs 1 ton, occupies 1 critical slot. Each Standard Heat Sink equipped on your Mech cools it by 0.1 heat/sec and increases the maximum heat threshold before you shut down by 1.

A Double Heat Sink also weighs 1 ton, but it occupies 3 critical slots. This means that you’re unable to fit them in a Mech’s head, center torso, or legs. The upside is that each one cools your Mech by 0.2 heat/sec and increases your maximum heat capacity by 2.

Edited by Krellek, 29 January 2013 - 02:38 PM.

[Tolkien]

Krellek, on 29 January 2013 - 02:29 PM, said:

I can't find the post I am referring to and had to ask a couple people. From what I understand is that SHS and DHS both add a slight increase to threshold while increasing the decay rate of heat. The latter is the more noticeable change.

I could be wrong, but let me pose an opposing viewpoint - that DHS do nothing to increase the size of your heat scale, they just *look* like they do.

Reason being if you fire enough weapons to heat up your mech quickly, then switch to DHS it will heat up 'slowly' - this will make the meter look like it is taking longer to fill but that's because the difference between the amount of heat you generate and the amount you dissipate per unit time is smaller, not because the "heat meter" got bigger.

Just a thought how it could look like DHS makes you have more heat capacity, but does not actually.

[Krellek]

Tolkien, on 29 January 2013 - 02:35 PM, said:

I could be wrong, but let me pose an opposing viewpoint - that DHS do nothing to increase the size of your heat scale, they just *look* like they do.

Reason being if you fire enough weapons to heat up your mech quickly, then switch to DHS it will heat up 'slowly' - this will make the meter look like it is taking longer to fill but that's because the difference between the amount of heat you generate and the amount you dissipate per unit time is smaller, not because the "heat meter" got bigger.

Just a thought how it could look like DHS makes you have more heat capacity, but does not actually.

Refer to my edit above for what you were looking for.

[Sajuk Kar]

Jaded Jasper, on 29 January 2013 - 02:26 PM, said:

Bloody hell this is confusing as ****!

It would be nice if a Dev somewhere could clarify how heatsinks /actually/ work, so were not left with guesswork, hearsay, and the occasional thorough but perhaps obsolete empirical testing. :-/

The opaque mechanics of this game are a real turn off.

I don't think it that confusing. The way I've always understood it, which has been confirmed by my math, is that your mech has a heat threshold, at 100% of which you shut down. This is your heat meter. The threshold is determined by a base of 30 for all mechs plus 1 for every standard heatsink you have, and 2 for the engine double heat sinks you have, and 1.4 for the non engine heatsink you have. For instance, if you are using standard heatsinks, and have 35 of them total including your engine ones, you heat threshold is 65, which is 100% on your heat gauge. Each single heatsink also gives .1 heat dissipation per second, engine doubles give .2 and non engine doubles give .14. A good way to estimate how much of your heat threshold your weapons are gonna make when fired is to take the heat of the weapons added up and then divide that by your heat threshold. That will give the percent of your total heat threshold. This is before any bonuses affecting heat you might have.

Summary:

Heat threshold=
30+1 for standard heatsink
1.4 for non engine double heatsink
2 for engine double heat sink

Heat dissipation=
.1 per second for standard heatsink
.14 for non engine double heatsink
.2 for engine double heat sink

Edited by Sajuk Kar, 29 January 2013 - 02:51 PM.

[Loc Nar]

So many *almost right answers...

Only up to the first 10 DHS inside the engine count at 2.0, all others (including any inside the engine over 10) count as 1.4.

A std300 with 12 DHS inside it, has ten that operate at 2.0 and two that operate at 1.4.

From the standpoint of head dissipation, a 250 engine with 2 external DHS has the same exact heat dissipation capacity of a 300 with 12 inside it. Beyond the first 10 DHS inside the engine, the advantage to sticking them in there is freeing up slots, which is actually a huge deal in big mechs...

[Krellek]

Sajuk Kar, on 29 January 2013 - 02:44 PM, said:

I don't think it that confusing. The way I've always understood it, which has been confirmed by my math, is that your mech has a heat threshold, at 100% of which you shut down. This is your heat meter. The threshold is determined by a base of 30 for all mechs plus 1 for every standard heatsink you have, and 2 for the engine double heat sinks you have, and 1.4 for the non engine heatsink you have. For instance, if you are using standard heatsinks, and have 35 of them total including your engine ones, you heat threshold is 65, which is 100% on your heat gauge. Each single heatsink also gives .1 heat dissipation per second, engine doubles give .2 and non engine doubles give .14. A good way to estimate how much of your heat threshold your weapons are gonna make when fired is to take the heat of the weapons added up and then divide that by your heat threshold. That will give the percent of your total heat threshold. This is before any bonuses affecting heat you might have.

Summary:

Heat thresold=
30+1 for standard heatsink
1.4 for non engine double heatsink
2 for engine double heat sink

Heat dissipation=
.1 per second for standard heatsink
.14 for non engine double heatsink
.2 for engine double heat sink

Yes

[Sajuk Kar]

I found this post

http://mwomercs.com/...14#entry1474814

[Krellek]

Loc Nar, on 29 January 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

So many *almost right answers...

Only up to the first 10 DHS inside the engine count at 2.0, all others (including any inside the engine over 10) count as 1.4.

A std300 with 12 DHS inside it, has ten that operate at 2.0 and two that operate at 1.4.

From the standpoint of head dissipation, a 250 engine with 2 external DHS has the same exact heat dissipation capacity of a 300 with 12 inside it. Beyond the first 10 DHS inside the engine, the advantage to sticking them in there is freeing up slots, which is actually a huge deal in big mechs...

I can't find any post discussing the drop off following the first two HS relative to any additional HS's. Can you please post the thread / post #? I know a bunch of stuff has been archived.

[IceSerpent]

Krellek, on 29 January 2013 - 02:55 PM, said:

I can't find any post discussing the drop off following the first two HS relative to any additional HS's. Can you please post the thread / post #? I know a bunch of stuff has been archived.

Where did you get the idea that there is some sort of drop off related to the first two heatsinks?

[Krellek]

IceSerpent, on 29 January 2013 - 03:02 PM, said:

Where did you get the idea that there is some sort of drop off related to the first two heatsinks?

From the poster I was quoting. I shouldn't have been exact with using the two and two scenario. Any HS's following the initial 10 rather was what I was referring to. Not saying the OP was wrong, just trying to find the original post. I haven't looked at them in a long time and am rather curious myself. I can't find any posts by PGI discussing a drop off after 10 DHS.

"Only up to the first 10 DHS inside the engine count at 2.0, all others (including any inside the engine over 10) count as 1.4.

A std300 with 12 DHS inside it, has ten that operate at 2.0 and two that operate at 1.4."

Edited by Krellek, 29 January 2013 - 03:13 PM.