40 replies to this topic

[Av4tar]

Ppl write about this game is following battletech tabletop rules. But where is the rule about the ppc hit can disrupt the ecm's function?

[mike29tw]

It's a band-aid invented by PGI, just like many other band-**** they've invented before...

*Edit - wow seriously "a-i-d-s" is censored ?

Edited by mike29tw, 30 January 2013 - 03:57 AM.

[Egomane]

There is no special effect to PPCs in the tabletop game.

My guess: Many players wished for a special effect for PPCs, other complained about ECM being to strong. Now we get both topics adressed with one adjustment.

PGI is following the tabletop rules where possible, but they never said, that those rules are a holy bible to go by. They will adjust and tweak whatever neccessary, to give us an enjoyable gaming experience.

[RedDragon]

It's only apocryphal regarding the rules since it was only mentioned in the fluff text of a PPC-wielding tank IIRC. There are no rules for EMP effects by PPCs.
I'd prefer the previous games' solution of a nice little flickering of the HUD when hit by a PPC.

[Darwins Dog]

The PPCs are following the TT more closely than ECM is. Just look down the pages for the fifty or so threads about it.

Also, this game only uses the TT rules as a starting point. They have deviated in a number of places in order ot make the best game that they can, and it's worked so far.

[Miken]

From sarna:
Targets hit by multiple, simultaneous PPCs can also suffer electrical side-effects, such as overloaded computer systems or targeting sensors.

Edited by Miken, 30 January 2013 - 05:12 AM.

[Egomane]

Miken, on 30 January 2013 - 05:11 AM, said:

From sarna:
Targets hit by multiple, simultaneous PPCs can also suffer electrical side-effects, such as overloaded computer systems or targeting sensors.

Pure fluff! Not represented in the rules.

[Ken Fury]

Egomane, on 30 January 2013 - 05:15 AM, said:

Pure fluff! Not represented in the rules.

Yes but present in some novels and it's cool effect. And while modules aren't Canon either they are a nice and for some welcome addition to the MW Experience. It's never wrong to improve and add onto an already great experience.

[Egomane]

Tank Boy Ken, on 30 January 2013 - 05:17 AM, said:

Yes but present in some novels and it's cool effect. And while modules aren't Canon either they are a nice and for some welcome addition to the MW Experience. It's never wrong to improve and add onto an already great experience.

Never said or meant to imply that it is a bad thing. I agree with changing the rules for a better gaming experience.

[Strum Wealh]

RedDragon, on 30 January 2013 - 04:02 AM, said:

It's only apocryphal regarding the rules since it was only mentioned in the fluff text of a PPC-wielding tank IIRC. There are no rules for EMP effects by PPCs.
I'd prefer the previous games' solution of a nice little flickering of the HUD when hit by a PPC.

It's in the entry for the Burke Combat Vehicle on page 112 of TRO 2750.
"When all three PPCs hit at the same instant, they can overload a 'Mech's computer or cause enough electronic noise to jam communications or targeting data temporarily. Most Star League BattleMechs carry dampers to channel out such power bursts, but many in service to the member-states do not."

However, it is true that there are no BattleTech gameplay rules concerning this aspect of PPCs.

Though, the TRO states that it took all three of the Burke's PPCs striking the target at the same time to cause the effect to the degree described.
It could be reasoned that a single PPC could cause a similar but less powerful effect - just enough to cause a HUD flicker and some limited malfunctioning in relatively-sensitive electronics (like an electronic countermeasures suite or an advanced sensor add-on)...

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

I think something many people need to understand is PGI is starting with the base tabletop rules as the "Starting point" and branching out. What they're idealy trying to do is capture the "Feel" of Battletech battles that we read about in the novels.

And frankly I think they're doing a pretty good job with it, MWO is one of the few mechwarrior games I've played where I've come away thinking "Man, that battle, the way everything flowed, the effects... ect ect" just, seemed nailed. MWLL is the only other time I've had such a... viceral experience with a Mechwarrior game, and I've played the heck out of MW3 and MW4.

The idea behind this game is to make us feel like we're mechwarriors, to bring to the screen those battles we read about. The tabletop values are a great starting point, but it was quickly realised by the devs that they're not to be 100% adheared to... first change was doubling of armor values [a fix that was also implimented in MW3, who's original armor values were patterned after tabletop, but later modified though patch]

So yeah, TableTop's a great starting point [I'm a huge TT fan] but it's not the end all, be all... I'd say the end all be all is the fluff. The overall "FEEL" of the BT universe.

[Mercules]

Yeah, but they only had to double armor values because they doubled and tripled fire rate without otherwise modifying the weapons. Medium Lasers generate 3 heat and do 5 damage in a 10 second turn. Had they kept the fire rate that makes fighting comfortable for Real Time FPS style then they should have simply divided that fire rate into the 10 seconds and worked out how much heat and damage to give each shot. They would never have had to double armor values at that point.

[Congzilla]

Egomane, on 30 January 2013 - 05:15 AM, said:

Pure fluff! Not represented in the rules.

It doesn't matter if it is fluff or crunch, it is cannon, and that is what matters most.

[Bishop Steiner]

Strum Wealh, on 30 January 2013 - 05:32 AM, said:

It's in the entry for the Burke Combat Vehicle on page 112 of TRO 2750.
"When all three PPCs hit at the same instant, they can overload a 'Mech's computer or cause enough electronic noise to jam communications or targeting data temporarily. Most Star League BattleMechs carry dampers to channel out such power bursts, but many in service to the member-states do not."

However, it is true that there are no BattleTech gameplay rules concerning this aspect of PPCs.

Though, the TRO states that it took all three of the Burke's PPCs striking the target at the same time to cause the effect to the degree described.
It could be reasoned that a single PPC could cause a similar but less powerful effect - just enough to cause a HUD flicker and some limited malfunctioning in relatively-sensitive electronics (like an electronic countermeasures suite or an advanced sensor add-on)...

Yes teh TRO also states that the Spider generates less That when jumping, and is directional in jump. That the The Clint has a Sloane Targeting System that is more accurate than others. That certain mechs weapon systems are prone to jamming. That the Thunderbolts Large LAser is unusually powerful. And yet... none have any rules mods, because it was pure fluff. That said, some minor rules deviations keep things interesting, but the obvious bandaid BS of the PPC is the rock to ECMs scissors, because people hate ecm AND people don't think PPCs are worth their heat currently (well, MOST people) unles you play cheesewhiz 6ppc overheat stalkers.

[Vila deVere]

Meh. I like it. I like to think of Table Top as a simplification of how 'Mechs would REALLY work.

Imagine trying to use a table top game to model modern combat. There would have to be a LOT of simplifications.

[Yokaiko]

Now shutting off the HUD for a few seconds that would be a better benie for PPCs.

This is obviously a bandaid, so we now have more cascading bandaids.

[Joseph Mallan]

ed3n1, on 30 January 2013 - 03:52 AM, said:

Ppl write about this game is following battletech tabletop rules. But where is the rule about the ppc hit can disrupt the ecm's function?

There are no rules on TT for it. there is however fluff text that 3 PPCs from a Shrek PPC carrier can effect a targets monitors.

[Starburster]

While not remembering a lot of the TT stuff that I used to, I think its fair to say that any mech that just took a 3 PPC volley had more to worry about then its sensors acting wonky for a few seconds.

[Yokaiko]

Starburster, on 30 January 2013 - 06:08 AM, said:

While not remembering a lot of the TT stuff that I used to, I think its fair to say that any mech that just took a 3 PPC volley had more to worry about then its sensors acting wonky for a few seconds.

Yeah like a torso being removed.

[Jack Corvus]

Jade Kitsune, on 30 January 2013 - 05:33 AM, said:

I think something many people need to understand is PGI is starting with the base tabletop rules as the "Starting point" and branching out. What they're idealy trying to do is capture the "Feel" of Battletech battles that we read about in the novels.

I hope so. I haven't gotten that impression just yet. ECM is definitely not quite right, it's better than just a short range signal confuser, it's more like Angel ECM and a partial null-sig.

LRMs would feel better if we could click on the battlegrid for launching un-locked salvos over hills.

AC/20s don't feel like AC/20s at all because the doubled armour, even with faster firing rates, changes the nature of what the gun did in tabletoptop - (unless it's a Catapult mounting two of them), which was to completely blow out entire sections of a mech's body in a single hit (short of assault mechs and center torsos). Now it's just twenty damage. Same damage number, but the terror of a stock HBK-4G or AS7-D being next to you is removed since you know your opponent won't be knocking out a part of you in one shot, as you have doubled armour. Sure you fire more, but the damage will likely be spread out. Which is opposite the purpose of the gun - to do potent damage that is not spread out.. A problem that can't be easily rectified since upping the damage would seriously overpower the weapon, and the hardpoint system means that mechs with frames that shouldn't even support the weapon do carry it and carry it twice, now and in the future. It is definitely not the giant, knock-you-over weapon it should be.