108 replies to this topic

[Khavi Vetali]

I run a 2X with a very similar build, dropping the arm ML for a PPC, and a slightly smaller engine, getting a max speed of 66kph. It's hot, cranky, and slow, but I do very well with it. With an alpha of 70 at 100M it has enough punch to fair very well against A1s and K2s, and can hold it's own against the lighter assaults. If you can manage the heat, and do well handling multiple weapons systems, it works very, very well.

That said, I think I actually prefer the 86kph XL 340 CTF-2X even more. Less firepower (mine has LL, 2ML, AC10, 2SRM6), but the speed increases your survivability even with the XL.

[Havyek]

I think the main reason that the 2X isn't a very popular brawler is the fact that their CTs are so dang prominent.

I have a 2X, but it's set up as a sniper with GR and ERPPC in the RT and 2 SRM4s in the LA

[Grimlox]

I just picked one of these up a couple nights ago. Running essentially the same build as yours but with a 280 and either a 1/2 ton less armour or 1 less DHS and a 1/2 ton more armour can't recall. Either way it seems to be a good little mech. You don't want a SRM cat to sneak up on you, but you can outdamage them until about 125m range. AC20 cats are more of a problem, but if you torso twist enough to spread the dmg it's not too bad.

I think I prefer the 3D right now, but I'm still unlocking on my 2X so we will see.

[Thuzel]

Phemeto, on 30 January 2013 - 08:22 AM, said:

maybe because the cataphract feels like paper and any "brawler" can take it down no problem, so it shouldnt brawl. All assault mechs will rip it to bits, and with no weight restrictions why wouldnt you run an assault to brawl with?

This.

The hitboxes are almost as large as an assault (maybe larger than the stalker), it's slow, with significantly less armor, and not much to show for it.

Until they re-institute R&R or some sort of reason to choose smaller mechs, most people will generally use the largest mech they can for any given purpose. Personal prefernce aside, there's really no reason not to, unless you get speed out of it for a trade off.

[jshill78]

People popping in to post that the CPLT is better aren't really adding anything to the thread. No carp the CPLT is better. Everyone already knows that. Some folks prefer the CTF just because it's different even though it may not be optimal.

There are some configurations you can pull off in a CTF that you can't in a CPLT but overall the statement is correct. CPLT > CTF.

Now back to the actual point of the thread.

Proof:

CPLT-C1

vs

CTF-2X

Same sustained damage, same firepower, CTF is 10 KPH slower but has 16 more armor, CPLT has AMS and more ammo, CTF loses 1 LL and 2 streaks with arms blown off where CPLT only loses 2 streaks, Torso twist is amazing in the CPLT.

Edited by jshill78, 30 January 2013 - 09:03 AM.

[DocBach]

My 2X has an AC20, 2 ML, 2 SRM-6, near max armor and somewhere around 14 DHS. It is one of my favorite 'Mechs, the firepower of an Atlas with the manueverability of a heavy. A fun twist was adding the largest XL engine I could and replacing the 20 for a gauss. I was maneuverable, and capable of striking at all ranges. The SRMs also got an Artemis upgrade which was great for the five days there wasn't ECM everywhere.

[Havyek]

jshill78, on 30 January 2013 - 08:50 AM, said:

People popping in to post that the CPLT is better aren't really adding anything to the thread. No carp the CPLT is better. Everyone already knows that. Some folks prefer the CTF just because it's different even though it may not be optimal.

There are some configurations you can pull off in a CTF that you can't in a CPLT but overall the statement is correct. CPLT > CTF.

Now back to the actual point of the thread.

Cat isn't always better.

Sure there are some things the Cat does better, carrying missiles is one of them.

The Phract is generally much better at carrying ballistics.

My main problem is that the Phracts LT and RT are so prominent (like the Awesome) and running an XL in them is like playing Russian roulette.

[Kraita]

That's the build I'v been running in my 2x for a long time apart from using SRM4 instead of SRM6 most of the time. Most effective short range mech I have. It's my lucky mech.

[jshill78]

DocBach, on 30 January 2013 - 09:00 AM, said:

My 2X has an AC20, 2 ML, 2 SRM-6, near max armor and somewhere around 14 DHS. It is one of my favorite 'Mechs, the firepower of an Atlas with the manueverability of a heavy. A fun twist was adding the largest XL engine I could and replacing the 20 for a gauss. I was maneuverable, and capable of striking at all ranges. The SRMs also got an Artemis upgrade which was great for the five days there wasn't ECM everywhere.

ECM has no effect on the build you mention. Why would it matter to you?

[TexAce]

Prefer the gauss variant CTF-2X

Better heat, more ammo, longer range.

[DocBach]

jshill78, on 30 January 2013 - 09:04 AM, said:

ECM has no effect on the build you mention. Why would it matter to you?

ECM made my very expensive Artemis useless.

[Jacmac]

Broceratops, on 30 January 2013 - 08:01 AM, said:

I don't actually own a 2X so I might be missing something, I skipped it for the 3D, Ilya, and 4X, but now that I'm looking at the variant, it really is like a mini Atlas.

shhhhh. You're not missing anything. It's the same as my D-DC except I do use Artemis. The 2x is a great medium close range brawler, although the SRM convergence with the AC20 is wonky, so you need to be pretty close to use them together. No so with the D-DC.

[Alex Wolfe]

jshill78, on 30 January 2013 - 08:50 AM, said:

People popping in to post that the CPLT is better aren't really adding anything to the thread. No carp the CPLT is better. Everyone already knows that. Some folks prefer the CTF just because it's different even though it may not be optimal.

There are some configurations you can pull off in a CTF that you can't in a CPLT but overall the statement is correct. CPLT > CTF.

Now back to the actual point of the thread.

Uh...

...

...the title of the thread is "Why Is This 2X Not A More Popular Brawler?", and that's also the question posed in the OP "it looks kinda solid to me. But I don't think I've ever see it on the field". You sure it's not you who's missing the actual point of the thread?

The short answer to both the thread title and the OP is "because Catapult".

The end.

Edited by Alex Wolfe, 30 January 2013 - 09:16 AM.

[jshill78]

DocBach, on 30 January 2013 - 09:11 AM, said:

ECM made my very expensive Artemis useless.

No. It didn't. ECM has no affect on Artemis. Artemis decreases the spread of SRM2, SRM4, and SRM6. It increases the accuracy of LRM5, LRM10, LRM15, and LRM20 when line of sight is maintained through the firing process.

ECM doesn't do anything to Artemis at all.

[TexAce]

jshill78, on 30 January 2013 - 09:15 AM, said:

No. It didn't. ECM has no affect on Artemis. Artemis decreases the spread of SRM2, SRM4, and SRM6. It increases the accuracy of LRM5, LRM10, LRM15, and LRM20 when line of sight is maintained through the firing process.

ECM doesn't do anything to Artemis at all.

Proof?

Artemis doesn't work against ECM mechs...

[Cerlin]

I love my phrachs (I have all 5 mastered) and I have run my 2x as a standard engine brawler since I got it and I love it. It is no catapult but I like the triple weapon system mechs. I have had very good luck with it. When I want to go fast I use the 3D or the 1x but thats just my preference. If you like brawling this is a good mech. The standard engine gives you a lot of longevity. Personally I think ALL mechs have an easy to hit CT. Hell the Catapult is the easiest to hit there. Also the catapults do hit hard but a majority of current A1 pilots are pretty bad shots. Keep moving and you shouldnt have too many issues.

[GioAvanti]

May just be good, but the 2x mini atlas for me always beats an srm cat.... they rage at me too. Trick is to engage at max range or literally go point range... and 1 shot their cockpit. Rember to swivel that torso guys.

[MustrumRidcully]

I discovered it is a great brawler, too. THough I use only 2 SRM4 - that way, no issues with the 4-tube-launchers. It isn'tw orth installing Artemis then, though.

Roland, on 30 January 2013 - 08:05 AM, said:

Seems like you're making a mistake, putting that AC20 ammo in your arm.

I don't think that's necessarily a mistake, but I would actually put it into the torso with the AC/20. That way, all crit locations are occupied with an item and there is a slightly lower chance that his AC/20 will take crit damage - while it is still not very likely that it will kill his ammo in one go (basically, only AC/10, AC/10, Gauss and PPC hits can do that.)

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 30 January 2013 - 09:27 AM.

[MuonNeutrino]

I basically run mine as a mini-atlas as well - very similar to some of the builds posted here; 3 mlas/2 srm6/gauss. I originally had an ac20 but found it ran too hot, and a gauss both runs cooler and adds a bit of ranged ability. It's faster than an atlas, and having such a powerful short range battery on a flexible arm mount is really nice (even if the arm can't swivel as far as it really ought to be able to, just the ability to aim *down* is great).

That said, I think the reason you don't see it more often is how *huge* the torsos are. Compared to something like a catapult the torso is just gigantic, and the side torsos especially are like barns. With a standard engine I may not *die* when you blow off my side torso, but I still lose a bunch of guns, and I find that if I get into a big brawl I tend to end up weaponless very quickly (for example, it's the only mech I own where I can get away with only 1 ton of ammo for each SRM6 - the things never stay attached to my mech long enough for me to use up more than that). So it's got a nice weapon loadout, nicely balanced side-to-side (don't lose *everything) from one ST loss), but it's still a bit on the fragile side.

[Cerlin]

As for ammo locations....
The cockpit would probably be better. I shot an arm off a cataphrach yesterday, he ran around a corner and exploded. so yeah its bad.

Edited by Cerlin, 30 January 2013 - 09:31 AM.