26 replies to this topic

[XR17]

Is a good idea to put AMS in a light mech to avoid SSRMs or the rockets are fast enough to ignore the AMS?

[Khobai]

its a good idea to put ECM in a light mech to avoid SSRMs. AMS is useless.

[The Amazing Atomic Spaniel]

The flight of SSRMs is so brief that the AMS has almost no chance to shoot them down.

Useful countermeasures to SSRMs include ECM and ALT-F4. If you try and run a light without ECM you will die. A lot.

[Elkarlo]

Not in a Commando, the AMS will blind you !

AMS works against SSRM depending on your Speed from 130 to 180 Meters.
So if your are fast, can keep distance and AMS don't blind you.
It is the Key against Ravens when i drive my Jenner, i stay at 160 Meters and only one Missle
reaches the Jenner, most often all are killed.

Edited by Elkarlo, 30 January 2013 - 11:12 AM.

[Thomas Dziegielewski]

Standing still, At 180m a single AMS will shoot down 1.8 SSRM missiles.
Running away from source will probably intercept both at that range.


Anything less than 100m will be hard pressed to intercept any SSRM.

AMS range is 200m.

AMS 2 damage / sec
SSRM 1 hitpoints
SSRM SPEED 200m/sec

[Thomas Dziegielewski]

Thontor, on 30 January 2013 - 11:24 AM, said:

Are LRMs also 1 hitpoint?

Yes, only NARC has 2 so far.

[Jez]

wow...so LRMs only have 1 hp and AMS has a range of 200m...

How many LRMs can an AMS take down assuming your mech is standing still? How fast are the LRMs traveling?

[mike29tw]

Thontor, on 30 January 2013 - 12:22 PM, said:

I think LRMs travel at 100 m/s... Could be wrong.

AMS range is 200m

So LRMs take 2 seconds to reach you once they enter AMS range.

At 2 DPS, AMS will do 4 damage in 2 seconds

So AMS could destroy 4 missiles at 1 hit point each.

How many missiles it destroys out of a volley depends on how big each group is, and how much distance there is between groups.

Speaking purely out of experience, if the LRM is targeting you, you can intercept 4~5 LRMs out of each volley. Double that if you're standing right under route of LRM that is targeting friendly 200m+ from you.

Also, it's interesting to point out that AMS does more DPS than machine guns.

Edited by mike29tw, 30 January 2013 - 12:28 PM.

[Taron]

AMS does work on ssrm if fired at max range. But only on these. On close range fired ssrm, the AMS does not even react.

[Green Mamba]

Tried it extensively in game for a week or so..AMS very rarely if any at all defends against STREAKS.I wish it did but it doesn't,STREAKS are way too fast as previously stated.

The only defense against STREAKS is to overwhelm in number of ECMs by your team or be in a HEAVY or ASSAULT MECH where you can last long enough as well as have enough weapons to kill them

[LaserAngel]

People doubted me that AMS could intercept SRM/SSRMs. Personally, I see a single AMS handle 5-7 missiles from a 10 size volley. Two AMS can shut down a single LRM 10 but it's a lot tougher for even more AMS to handle some of the more massive and trickling salvos.

[Davers]

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 30 January 2013 - 11:14 AM, said:

Standing still, At 180m a single AMS will shoot down 1.8 SSRM missiles.
Running away from source will probably intercept both at that range.


Anything less than 100m will be hard pressed to intercept any SSRM.

AMS range is 200m.

AMS 2 damage / sec
SSRM 1 hitpoints
SSRM SPEED 200m/sec

I knew this from experience. You can't chainfire streaks at an AMS equipped Jenner- They will get shot down. You need to alpha them.

[Accused]

AMS on a light mech to counter ssrms is useless.

Now, if we could equip two AMS, that might do something. Still worthless against streaks though.

[Davers]

Accused, on 30 January 2013 - 07:16 PM, said:

AMS on a light mech to counter ssrms is useless.

Now, if we could equip two AMS, that might do something. Still worthless against streaks though.

Except, as the Dev just said, they are not worthless. Not a GREAT value, but not worthless.

[Orthodontist]

So when can we expect to see a module to improve AMS? Or an anti lock on module?

[Davers]

Orthodontist, on 30 January 2013 - 07:30 PM, said:

So when can we expect to see a module to improve AMS? Or an anti lock on module?

A module that increases AMS range would be pretty sweet.

[Mahws]

They're worthless the same way machine guns or LRM5 are worthless. They may work, but that doesn't mean they work well enough. Under absolutely perfect conditions an AMS will shoot down 1 SSRM in a salvo. 2 if it's a blue moon and the elder Gods smile on you.

Which means:
Light Vs. Light: Useless. You'll be fighting at close range (0-150 meters) which means you'll be lucky if even one of those SSRM gets blocked. Even if you block one every salvo you're blocking one tonne (2xSSRM2+Ammo/4) worth of damage for a 1.5 tonne item. Which you also sacrifice 1.5 tonnes of armor or weapons to equip.
Lights Vs. Anything else. Anything bigger than a light will be bringing 3-6xSSRM2 to the party. Blocking 5 damage worth of missiles won't save you from the other 25 damage worth blowing your mech to shreds.

Against SSRM it's deadweight, against SRM it's completely worthless and against LRM it has dubious value (who brings anything less than 20 LRM salvos to a fight anyway?). Even then you're better off with an ECM if you can get it as it'll block far more missiles a match for the same weight and has a bunch of other benefits.

Edited by Mahws, 30 January 2013 - 07:43 PM.

[Deamhan]

So in short, SRM 4 and 6 as well as LRM 10 and over laugh in the face of it.

It should be % based. With it's current setup it is flat missile based and if you have more than one salvo that enters into its range at the same time, any additional salvos above the first gets to reach their target at full strength. Two tons and two slots just to be able to have it. 3 tons and 3 slots if you expect it to last considering it shoots at missiles regardless if they are gonna hit you or not. At least the real life version will determine the probability of the incoming missile to hit first.

Total waste of space and tonnage, when you should always have a plan for cover if you find yourself the focus of LRM fire.

Edited by Deamhan, 30 January 2013 - 08:14 PM.

[Vapor Trail]

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 30 January 2013 - 11:14 AM, said:

Standing still, At 180m a single AMS will shoot down 1.8 SSRM missiles.
Running away from source will probably intercept both at that range.


Anything less than 100m will be hard pressed to intercept any SSRM.

AMS range is 200m.

AMS 2 damage / sec
SSRM 1 hitpoints
SSRM SPEED 200m/sec

1.8 SSRMs... So, one SSRM.

Since there is NEVER just one SSRM inbound, you're only going to get, at max, one missile. Three SSRM2's means five missiles will hit.

200m/sec means that the missiles cross the 270m in 1.35 seconds.

At a cycle rate of 3.5 seconds, a Catapult A1 StreakCat can chain-fire all six SSRM2s and lose only a single missile. And as long as the StreakCat keeps up the fire (or moves closer than max range...), it will not lose another missile, because the AMS is always shooting at the closest missile, and the AMS does not have enough time to kill another missile unless the launcher is stationary @ or near max range.

Example inside

Spoiler

t = 0 sec SRM launch against a standing target. Range1 = 270m.

t = 0.45 sec Range1 = 180m. AMS engages, prosecuting 1 of X.

t = 0.6 sec Second SRM launch. Range2 = 270m, Range1 = 150m.

t = 0.95 sec Range2 = 170m, Range1 = 80m. AMS kills 1 of X of first flight, begins engaging 2 of X.

t = 1.2 sec Third SRM launch. Range 3 = 270, Range2 = 150 Range1 = 10m

t = 1.35 sec 2nd through X of X SRMs in flight 1 impact. Range3 = 240m, Range2 = 120m, Range1=0. AMS begins engaging 2nd flight.

t = 1.8 sec Fourth SRM launch. Range4 = 270, Range3 = 180, Range2 = 60m.

t = 1.85 sec AMS kills first missile of 2nd flight. (* note1) Range4 = 260m, Range3 = 170m, Range2 = 50m

t = 2.2 sec 2nd through X of X SRMs in flight 2 impact. Range 4 = 210m, Range3 = 120m, Range2 = 0m.
(*note 2)

*note 1: If the launching mech closes as little as 25m between any launch, all subsequent launches will survive with all missiles.

*note 2: This is not the worst case scenario for the AMS. This is pretty much the BEST case scenario.

So basically AMS is pretty much useless against SRMs. ONE Missile per volley, maximum SRM kill for a single AMS.

Once the launch platform passes 250m all but one of the missiles will survive to target range, provided they're chain-fired at 0.6 second intervals. Chain slower and the AMS kills one missile per volley. Chain slightly faster, and the AMS kills one missile per sequence.

As I see it, the AMS is getting swamped way too easily. In TT, the AMS shut down the SRM2 completely for as long as the ammo held out... but the ammo consumption was HUGE per counter-engagement.

Maybe SRM hitpoints should be dropped by about 30-40%? Because rare is the SRM engagement that happens outside of 100m.

Edited by Vapor Trail, 30 January 2013 - 09:08 PM.

[Galenit]

Davers, on 30 January 2013 - 07:33 PM, said:

A module that increases AMS range would be pretty sweet.

Damage+Range would be ideal.
AMS-Module 1: +25 Range, + 0,25 DPS to AMS
AMS-Module 2: +50 Range, +0,5DPS (25% range + damage)
or to your point:
AMS-Module 1: +50 Range
AMS-Module 2: +100 Range (50% range)
or
AMS-Module 1: +0,5 DPS
AMS-Module 2: +1 DPS (50% more damage)

In all cases the second module will give the AMS +50% effect ,the first module is universal, the second will make ams better against lrm and for group overlapping and the third will make it better against ssrm and srm.

If they implement all 3 types everyone can choose and a 2 AMS mech can use up to 3 of them. 2x ams with all 3 modules will give each ams +150 range and +1,5 dps and make it a wall against missiles. 2 times AMS with 350m range and 3,5 dps will kill 24 missiles (on fly over up to 49) but the price for this is high: 3 modules, 2 ams and a lot of ams ammo is needed. Hope the math is right, iam to tired to think ....

Edited by Galenit, 31 January 2013 - 04:00 AM.