12 replies to this topic

[Blue Hymn]

It has come to my attention that ballistics are becoming more of the dominant weapon of choice, especially with the more numerous Catapult K-2, A-1, Cataphracts and Muromets proliferating the battlefield. Now, I can understand the charisma of arming the mech with hard-hitting power such as Dual-Gauss or AC20's, but this has left me to wonder:

Are there other weapons that can compete against the ballistics charm on equal footing? If so, what weapons would you, the pilots, recommend, and what would your suggestion be in regards to this shift in weapon choice?

Discuss.

Edited by Blue Hymn, 30 January 2013 - 11:12 PM.

[MustrumRidcully]

Medium Lasers, SRMs and Streaks compete heavily with ballistics.

Large Lasers are not quite as strong, PPCs and ER Weapons and pulse lasers are generally weaker.
LRMs can be impressive, but require some investment of the player and t he group to deal with ECM and enable the advantage of indirect fire.

Spoiler

Weapon Comparison Charts - Efficiency or Weight Investment for benchmark scenarios. Scenarios are based on the following assumption:
In a given time (for example, 20 seconds), a certain damage number must be achievable or exceeded (for example, 160 dmg), without the respective mech with such a weapon loadout overheating. Ammo must be sufficient to repeat such an engagement multiple times (for example 6). For the damage/weight efficiency ,the actual damage achieved (which may exceed the minimum sometimes) is calculated and divided by the weight spend on heat sinks, weapons and ammo.

If the weapon balance was perfect, I would expect this to be on a curve that goes down with the range of weapons, and with weapons that cannot deliver pin-point shots (missile clusters or shotgun ammunition) be higher, to create reasonable trade-offs between range and damage as well as precision and damage.

Something for Heavier Mechs
The targeted damage numbers require too much weight investment that it's likely to fit on a light or medium mech. I believe that it requires 3 AC/5 to achieve TET=20 sec, TED 240, TEC = 6, you won't fit this on any light or medium mech.


Something for Lighter Mechs
The damage figures here are doable with most weapons even on a light or medium platform.




Weight Figures
These are just the weight figures without comparing them to the total damage result. It gives you an idea of what's realistically possible to equip.




Source: http://mwomercs.com/...inks-2012-12-08
Note: Next patch may bring balance tweaks to PPCs, ER and Pulse Lasers and will require re-doing the graphs.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 30 January 2013 - 11:39 PM.

[Blue Hymn]

I see. I agree with most of your statement, though I (I pilot an Awesome, by the way) find that PPCs are rather useful in ripping through armor...if you don't make a high aggro of yourself. 3PPCs tend to get the work done, and can make quick work of heavy to medium mechs if you place your shots well.

It is rather sad however, that lasers don't hit as hard as they should -- I find myself reminiscing the times which Large lasers just...well, didn't penetrate deep enough through the armor, the damage mostly spread out and not focused enough.

[Adamski]

Large lasers are amazing if you can hold your aim on the same body section for the duration of the beam. They easily beat out PPCs for heat:weight:damage comparisons. Though none of the energy weapons compare to the workhorse that is the medium laser once you get into brawling range.

For Ballistics, they are all relatively well balanced, but I would still like to see the AC10 reduced by 1 heat, and the AC20 reduced by 2. Ballistics generally give up a lot of crit slots for more and more heat effecient weapons, but they are also excessively heavy before you factor in carrying around explosive ammo. I feel like the AC5 is in the sweet spot on the space:DPS:tonnage scale.

[MustrumRidcully]

Adamski, on 31 January 2013 - 12:26 AM, said:

Large lasers are amazing if you can hold your aim on the same body section for the duration of the beam.

You mean like this:
http://www.youtube.c...d&v=56bxpv_diTw
Source (Indoorsman): http://mwomercs.com/...aserback-video/

[Gargoth]

I would say that a _skilled_ pilot utilizing ppc's is a fearful opponent indeed, even when using ER's.
Also, med pulses are quite an effective setup on some mechs.

[DEN_Ninja]

Lorewise the justification that most mechs ran energy as back up weapons.
All ballistics/missiles consumed high amounts of ammunition.
Meaning if you ran out of ammo you were out of luck unless you went back to base to resupply.

Sadly double ammo tonnage allows the Dual Ballistics or SRM boaters to engage in prolonged battle.

Sadly the only energy weapon that consistently compete with ballistics is the medium laser. Cheap, efficient, and decent damage. All other energy weapons have no real place if you have an army of ballistic and SRM boaters. It is not fun to watch 3 Splat Cats charge a line of assaults and kill them. Not unless you have enough damage to do 40 points and ruin an arm.

Decrease on Large laser heat is coming so I suspect that it will be much more viable. I'd love to see those splat cats try to charge a line of ER PPC's but it might devolve the game into long distance sniping matches again.

[BerryChunks]

MustrumRidcully, on 31 January 2013 - 12:42 AM, said:

You mean like this:
http://www.youtube.c...d&v=56bxpv_diTw
Source (Indoorsman): http://mwomercs.com/...aserback-video/

MustrumRidcully, on 31 January 2013 - 12:42 AM, said:

You mean like this:
http://www.youtube.c...d&v=56bxpv_diTw
Source (Indoorsman): http://mwomercs.com/...aserback-video/

He's shooting people who are already really damaged, and who aren't targeting him because they're shooting at his teammates.

[Blue Shadow]

Hi Blue Hymn, I'd recommend MPLs for short range fire power. If your enjoying the PPC/ERPPC then keep at it, it's soon to receive a boost anyway in the form of shutting down ECMs and a heat reduction. I don't pilot an awesome but I thought if I did I'd experiment with mixing the long range PPC fire power with some short range weapons for defense, most hopefully MPLs.

[SmoothCriminal]

I'd say SRMs are the most prominent weapon, certainly in close range situations. And rightly so, they hit incredibly hard.

[Joseph Mallan]

Blue Hymn, on 30 January 2013 - 11:11 PM, said:

It has come to my attention that ballistics are becoming more of the dominant weapon of choice, especially with the more numerous Catapult K-2, A-1, Cataphracts and Muromets proliferating the battlefield. Now, I can understand the charisma of arming the mech with hard-hitting power such as Dual-Gauss or AC20's, but this has left me to wonder:

Are there other weapons that can compete against the ballistics charm on equal footing? If so, what weapons would you, the pilots, recommend, and what would your suggestion be in regards to this shift in weapon choice?

Discuss.

PPCs are a hot but good hard hitting weapon. I have settled on Large lasers though for the heat trade off. I have ultras on my K2 I have a Gauss on my Atlas, My centurion is the AL model so its 2 large and no ballistic. You are a foolish warrior if you only have a one trick mech, diversify, use different types of weapons to allow yourself flexibility in combat.

[Wolf Clearwater]

ER PPC for the win. I mount one whenever possible.....even on my commandos.

[Solis Obscuri]

Ballistics are a good weapon system - generally good DPS, low heat, concentrate damage well.

On the downside they're harder to aim than lasers or guided missiles, and they're godawful heavy compared to either as well. As a result, most units capable of boating them (take the CTF-4X as an example) tend to be on the slow side. It's not advisable to try and out-tank a ballistics boat (especially if you're at all under-heatsinked), but hit and run tactics can be effective - few have a substantial alpha-strike except the dual-Gauss/dual-AC/20 boats (usually K2s).