134 replies to this topic

[Gammanoob]

The better warriors, naturally.

Besides, I thought the Clans were all about challenges and proving their superior abilities?

Certainly, 4 vs 8 are not wonderful odds, but if I want a challenge I know which side is more interesting.

Edited by Gammanoob, 04 February 2013 - 04:59 PM.

[Skadi]

Gammanoob, on 04 February 2013 - 04:58 PM, said:

The better warriors.

Assume they are all equal warriors in this case, lets keep skill out of this one.

[CoffiNail]

Gammanoob, on 04 February 2013 - 04:58 PM, said:

The better warriors.

This

Skill is a huge factor in this game.

I have witnessed a drop of lights and mediums reduce a group of heavies and assaults due to the heavier players not being as skilled as the lights. I have also seen Assault groups just shatter lights like it was a child's play thing.

[Skadi]

CoffiNail, on 04 February 2013 - 05:00 PM, said:

This

Skill is a huge factor in this game.

I have witnessed a drop of lights and mediums reduce a group of heavies and assaults due to the heavier players not being as skilled as the lights. I have also seen Assault groups just shatter lights like it was a child's play thing.

See my post directly after his
Skill was factored out of the OP so i would prefer you factor it out of mine, if we considered skill we could have 1 jenner take on 4 timber wolfs.

[Gammanoob]

Skadi, on 04 February 2013 - 04:59 PM, said:

Assume they are all equal warriors in this case, lets keep skill out of this one.

Whichever team has better tactics or teamwork then.

However, I think it would actually be a great idea if playing for the Clans meant you were constantly facing a large numerical disadvantage and potentially IS mechs with Clan Tech.

It would drive away the "cool tech" pilots who wouldn't enjoy the difficulty and in turn you would have a small dedicated, skilled base of Clanners.

Edited by Gammanoob, 04 February 2013 - 05:03 PM.

[Skadi]

Gammanoob, on 04 February 2013 - 05:02 PM, said:

Whichever team has better tactics or teamwork then.

However, I think it would actually be a great idea if playing Clan meant you were constantly facing a large numerical disadvantage.

It would drive away the "cool tech" pilots who wouldn't enjoy having the difficulty and in turn you would have a small dedicated, skilled base of Clanners.

It would also make no sense considering IS will get the same weapons for you if they so choose to buy them.
What they should do is balance it so each team has equal amounts of Clan techs
Team 1 has a premade of 4 clan mechs lets say,
So Team 2 gets 4 clan mechs of the same weight, this keeps things balanced numbers wise while keeping it balanced "tech" wise.

(Please note we dont know how clan mechs will work in conjunction with IS, for all we know we cant be clan and we will be able to purchase clan mechs though through a "black market" for stupid high prices)

Edited by Skadi, 04 February 2013 - 05:05 PM.

[Gammanoob]

Clan Tech for IS should just have a prohibitively large price and take time to acquire. (Furthermore not all of the Clan advantages are in weapons, but also in other areas of their mechs).

So it would simulate the lore, where in the beginning the Clans are superior but face a numerically superior enemy, but with time they start to lose the tech advantage.

I just think it should be difficult to play as the Clans, it should draw the most skilled and determined pilots, those who thrive facing difficult odds.

Edited by Gammanoob, 04 February 2013 - 05:08 PM.

[CoffiNail]

Skadi, on 04 February 2013 - 05:01 PM, said:

See my post directly after his
Skill was factored out of the OP so i would prefer you factor it out of mine, if we considered skill we could have 1 jenner take on 4 timber wolfs.

I was in the process of typing my post and did not see yours

[Skadi]

Gammanoob, on 04 February 2013 - 05:06 PM, said:

Clan Tech for IS should just have a prohibitively large price and take time to acquire. (Furthermore not all of the Clan advantages are in weapons, but also in other areas of their mechs).

So it would simulate the lore, where in the beginning the Clans are superior but face a numerically superior enemy, but with time they start to lose the tech advantage.

Indeed, imo avoiding the ability to actualy play clans is the best option, and instead giving us the option to buy Clan equipment for a much much higher price than IS weapons.

This would make it where not everyone could afford to maintin a clan mech, especialy if you wanted to completely outfit it like a clan mech, i forsee clan XL prices in the ranges of 10-20 million, enough to afford a atlas.

[Vanguard319]

IceSerpent, on 04 February 2013 - 04:41 PM, said:

1 and 3 are blatant P2W. Not sure what the intended purpose of #2 is - Zellbrigen has a provision stating that as soon as one side violates it (which will likely happen as soon as 2 IS pilots get LOS on a single Clan mech), all bets are off.

really? when have we EVER been able to buy weapons and equipment with MC? You argue that a player can just convert mech xp into gxp, but 1, you can do that with any mech, and 2, as I suggested in my 2nd suggestion, clanners would recieve reduced xp, making piloting a clan mech a longer grind, with the only way to recieve optimal xp being by adhering to clan doctrine. I think I'll add a fourth suggestion:

4. Clan mech tree perks give a reduced bonus in comparison to IS mechs, since they already have superior performance to begin with.

[Skadi]

Vanguard319, on 04 February 2013 - 05:11 PM, said:

really? when have we EVER been able to buy weapons and equipment with MC? You argue that a player can just convert mech xp into gxp, but 1, you can do that with any mech, and 2, as I suggested in my 2nd suggestion, clanners would recieve reduced xp, making piloting a clan mech a longer grind, with the only way to recieve optimal xp being by adhering to clan doctrine. I think I'll add a fourth suggestion:

4. Clan mech tree perks give a reduced bonus in comparison to IS mechs, since they already have superior performance to begin with.

Erm....
Hero Mechs?
Not saying they are P2W, but they are equipment we can buy with and only with MC.

Also your N.4 makes absolutely NO sense from a realistic standpoint.

Edited by Skadi, 04 February 2013 - 05:15 PM.

[CoffiNail]

Skadi, on 04 February 2013 - 05:08 PM, said:

Indeed, imo avoiding the ability to actualy play clans is the best option, and instead giving us the option to buy Clan equipment for a much much higher price than IS weapons.

two reasons this is a horribad idea. The rather large (probably 1/4%) of the MWO population would like to play Clan. A huge chunk of that quarter are wanting Clans so they can play as the Clans, not the Inner Sphere and aside from the look of the Clan Mechs, are not worried about the 'superior' aspects of ClanTech. If they tweaked it so ClanTech did only slightly more damage and range but a lot more heat. I would still play them, if they made Clan Tech equal, I would still play them (MWLL's ClanTech is not drastically over powered compared to the IS stuff, I still only play ClanTech due to that is what I prefer)

Yes, there are the ClanTech power gamers out there. A lot of the Clan population want to play Clans to be Clan.

[Skadi]

CoffiNail, on 04 February 2013 - 05:16 PM, said:

two reasons this is a horribad idea. The rather large (probably 1/4%) of the MWO population would like to play Clan. A huge chunk of that quarter are wanting Clans so they can play as the Clans, not the Inner Sphere and aside from the look of the Clan Mechs, are not worried about the 'superior' aspects of ClanTech. If they tweaked it so ClanTech did only slightly more damage and range but a lot more heat. I would still play them, if they made Clan Tech equal, I would still play them (MWLL's ClanTech is not drastically over powered compared to the IS stuff, I still only play ClanTech due to that is what I prefer)

Yes, there are the ClanTech power gamers out there. A lot of the Clan population want to play Clans to be Clan.

I actualy dont play on Truetech servers on MWLL... although the only servers that are played on are non truetech so i dont have much of a option, besides that the clan weapons are imo superior in every way, not by much but they still are


although heavy lasors generate heat like a ****.
Also im not sure how they could possibly balance that...
Consider a 8V4, all 4 clan people are new in trials, all 8 IS are somewhat new and barely within their elo rating, the clan are going to get rofl stomped purely because they dont know wtf is going on, it going to drive away the new guys and kinda destroy the point of elo.
(and yes i know im factoring in skill myself now even after my previous posts, but it applys here)
You cant do that to a new player, just SEEING that they are outnumbered 2 to 1 will scare them, if not **** them off.

Edited by Skadi, 04 February 2013 - 05:24 PM.

[CoffiNail]

There have almost never been PureTech servers. Just in overall matches, I tend to only play the Clan assests, even though it takes longer to 'level' due to the high cbill costs. I just prefer to play in a Clan Mech because they are what I enjoy dropping in.

[Vanguard319]

Skadi, on 04 February 2013 - 05:14 PM, said:

Erm....
Hero Mechs?
Not saying they are P2W, but they are equipment we can buy with and only with MC.

Also your N.4 makes absolutely NO sense.

then you need to learn how to read and comphrehend.

My point with 4 is that clan mechs are already superior to is mechs in every way, so why would they get the same bonuses? for example speed tweak gives an is mech a 10% speed boost, using my suggestion, a clan mech would only enjoy a 5% boost, since they are faster and better tuned to begin with.

As for clan hero mechs, under my second suggestion, they would only enjoy a 25% c-bill bonus. (same as a founder's mech) Besides, I wouldn't bother counting hero mechs to begin with. While they have a preset weapon loadout, most players tend to swap out those weapons for customized loadouts,and we have never been able to buy individual weapons and equipment with MC. Also, some heroes aren't even considered all that good as combat mechs, since their only real benefit is that c-bill bonus.

[Skadi]

CoffiNail, on 04 February 2013 - 05:25 PM, said:

There have almost never been PureTech servers. Just in overall matches, I tend to only play the Clan assests, even though it takes longer to 'level' due to the high cbill costs. I just prefer to play in a Clan Mech because they are what I enjoy dropping in.

When clans actualy got clan mechs the big servers were puretech, now theres 0 from what i knew, the jag server was indeed puretech, but its gone now.

Vanguard319, on 04 February 2013 - 05:28 PM, said:

then you need to learn how to read and comphrehend.

My point with 4 is that clan mechs are already superior to is mechs in every way, so why would they get the same bonuses? for example speed tweak gives an is mech a 10% speed boost, using my suggestion, a clan mech would only enjoy a 5% boost, since they are faster and better tuned to begin with.

As for clan hero mechs, under my second suggestion, they would only enjoy a 25% c-bill bonus. (same as a founder's mech) Besides, I wouldn't bother counting hero mechs to begin with. While they have a preset weapon loadout, most players tend to swap out those weapons for customized loadouts,and we have never been able to buy individual weapons and equipment with MC. Also, some heroes aren't even considered all that good as combat mechs, since their only real benefit is that c-bill bonus.

If your going to tell me i need to learn how to read and comphrehend quote my ENTIRE post
You missed the "From a realistic standpoint" part of it...

Edited by Skadi, 04 February 2013 - 05:29 PM.

[CoffiNail]

Skadi, on 04 February 2013 - 05:28 PM, said:

When clans actualy got clan mechs the big servers were puretech, now theres 0 from what i knew, the jag server was indeed puretech, but its gone now.

Must have been later during when MWO was out. As I have barely played MWLL since MWO due to MWLL having almost no content updates for a year (Aside from solaris and some assaults mechs)

[Major Derps]

Sir Trent Howell, on 31 January 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

Here's the problem with this. First, the cannon never stated that. In fact during the Great Refusal on Strana Mechty and Inner Sphere company (12) fought against Clan Binaries (10). So this half resources thing really has no basis.

Second, in the cannon clan warriors are all superbly trained and are excellent pilots. In MWO, the average pug is worse than terrible. Just putting a pilot in a clan Mech with clan technology will not make him worth two Inner Sphere pilots.

Now although I did like this, I hope you aren't talking from a premader's point of view, otherwise your opinion is void. Unless you are single handedly rolling fellow pugs, you can not dictate a good from a bad pilot if you outnumber him (or her).

[Skadi]

CoffiNail, on 04 February 2013 - 05:30 PM, said:

Must have been later during when MWO was out. As I have barely played MWLL since MWO due to MWLL having almost no content updates for a year (Aside from solaris and some assaults mechs)

I assume you know that MWLL can no longer update content patches ect?

[Gammanoob]

Skadi, on 04 February 2013 - 05:21 PM, said:

although heavy lasors generate heat like a ****.
Also im not sure how they could possibly balance that...
Consider a 8V4, all 4 clan people are new in trials, all 8 IS are somewhat new and barely within their elo rating, the clan are going to get rofl stomped purely because they dont know wtf is going on, it going to drive away the new guys and kinda destroy the point of elo.
(and yes i know im factoring in skill myself now even after my previous posts, but it applys here)
You cant do that to a new player, just SEEING that they are outnumbered 2 to 1 will scare them, if not **** them off.

Yes, but why would the Clans have to be open to new players?

To me it makes more sense that you somehow have to earn your place as a Clanner, that way those who like the lore/culture/history of the Clans are happy and everyone else is as well because we don't have 50% of the game population rolling a Clan alt because it's harder.

Edited by Gammanoob, 04 February 2013 - 05:37 PM.