Clan v IS mechs have to be balanced in regards to the battle field. (and there are a few ways to do this without nerfing clan tech, including but not limited to simple balance by unequal numbers).
If you don't balance it there, the problem is whatever onerous restrictions you put on acquiring clan tech, it'll nonetheless become the end game goal for all players to get there.
I personally favour a reserve mech drop idea for IS mechs; because it gives players a strong incentive to still play IS mechs, whereas restricting numbers still means that you'll still see a shifting of players into clan mechs over time (because it's more fun for the individual to play the hero mech than to play the underpowered mech).
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Would A "salvage Point System" Possibly Add The Metagame Balance To Make Clan Tech Available, Yet Not Op And Game Breaking "must Have"?
Started by Bishop Steiner, Jan 31 2013 11:48 AM
65 replies to this topic
#42
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Posted 02 February 2013 - 02:31 PM
Wintersdark, on 02 February 2013 - 08:57 AM, said:
Re: the OP.
First: Where do the early Clantech using players get their Clan gear? How could they earn salvage points by downing Clan mechs, when there are no players with Clan mechs?
Second: The problem with gating Clan tech on battle results is simple. Only the best players get Clan tech. This sounds great, but... The best players get the better tech, and this acts as a force multiplier - the best players get ever better weaponry, allowing them to win more, which ever increases the gap between better and worse players. Eventually, you end up with a system that's somewhat similar to outfitting new players in trials only, and pitting them against veterans in custom mechs now.
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Now, here's the thing. This has nothing to do with how I think things should be(as a player/BT fan), but this comes entirely from game design experience and what I feel is most likely how PGI will do things.
1) Clan mechs will be added exactly as current mechs, with the same customization options (hardpoints).
- Yes, it doesn't fully reflect how Omnimechs work, but it IS how every Mechwarrior game has implemented Clan Mechs. Also, consider that our current IS mechs are essentially, in MWO, better than Omnimechs anyways (we can swap weapons around effortlessly, AND change structure/armor/engines). All our IS mechs are already equipped with the inventions that were added later on to bring some parity with Clan mechs as well (endo steel, FF, DHS, etc)
- Most importantly, it's implemented without changing anything. Zero coding time, zero testing time, zero cost beyond what goes into adding IS mechs now.
2) Clan weapons and tech will cost. A lot. But work just like current ones, so yes, they'll just be better. But they'll take a while longer to "grind up"
- Again, zero coding times, etc, and the same effort that goes into adding new IS tech.
3) Clan tech will be available to everyone, but released slowly and gradually. There will, then, be no need to make complicated changes to the ELO system, matchmaker, etc.
See a common thread? You're not going to see lopsided matches with x Clanners vs. x+y Inner Sphere Mechwarriors, because it'd be an impossible nightmare to balance. Also you'd find there'd very quickly be VASTLY more Clan mechwarriors than Inner Sphere ones, because the majority wants to pilot the "elite" mechs rather than the numerous trash mechs, so Clan mechwarriors would find themselves in a horribly long queue trying to find battles.
In game design particularly, the simplest answer is generally the one that's used. I'd put real, hard cash that this is the route PGI goes.
First: Where do the early Clantech using players get their Clan gear? How could they earn salvage points by downing Clan mechs, when there are no players with Clan mechs?
Second: The problem with gating Clan tech on battle results is simple. Only the best players get Clan tech. This sounds great, but... The best players get the better tech, and this acts as a force multiplier - the best players get ever better weaponry, allowing them to win more, which ever increases the gap between better and worse players. Eventually, you end up with a system that's somewhat similar to outfitting new players in trials only, and pitting them against veterans in custom mechs now.
--------------------
Now, here's the thing. This has nothing to do with how I think things should be(as a player/BT fan), but this comes entirely from game design experience and what I feel is most likely how PGI will do things.
1) Clan mechs will be added exactly as current mechs, with the same customization options (hardpoints).
- Yes, it doesn't fully reflect how Omnimechs work, but it IS how every Mechwarrior game has implemented Clan Mechs. Also, consider that our current IS mechs are essentially, in MWO, better than Omnimechs anyways (we can swap weapons around effortlessly, AND change structure/armor/engines). All our IS mechs are already equipped with the inventions that were added later on to bring some parity with Clan mechs as well (endo steel, FF, DHS, etc)
- Most importantly, it's implemented without changing anything. Zero coding time, zero testing time, zero cost beyond what goes into adding IS mechs now.
2) Clan weapons and tech will cost. A lot. But work just like current ones, so yes, they'll just be better. But they'll take a while longer to "grind up"
- Again, zero coding times, etc, and the same effort that goes into adding new IS tech.
3) Clan tech will be available to everyone, but released slowly and gradually. There will, then, be no need to make complicated changes to the ELO system, matchmaker, etc.
See a common thread? You're not going to see lopsided matches with x Clanners vs. x+y Inner Sphere Mechwarriors, because it'd be an impossible nightmare to balance. Also you'd find there'd very quickly be VASTLY more Clan mechwarriors than Inner Sphere ones, because the majority wants to pilot the "elite" mechs rather than the numerous trash mechs, so Clan mechwarriors would find themselves in a horribly long queue trying to find battles.
In game design particularly, the simplest answer is generally the one that's used. I'd put real, hard cash that this is the route PGI goes.
Firstly, you again are not reading the posts fully before commenting. PGI has a plan for who or what will run the Clans when they invade. It could be the Devs. By Invite only. A Clan Founders drive. Inconsequential to the discussion, because we know that there WILL be Clan forces. This salvage system only works for the Inner Sphere economy. The Clans will function on a totally different economic model than we are using now ANYHOW.
And a "only the "best players" get Clan Tech system would be as horrid as any P2W scheme. And cause pretty much an instant meltdown on the forums... of course.. what doesn't in this frikking lunatic excuse for a day care?
#43
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Posted 02 February 2013 - 02:34 PM
I voted "Hmmmm... possibly, BUT....." Because while I really like the concept, it would need some changes to make it viable. Personnally I think it is a great idea and with some work it could be viable. That being said a system like this most likely won't be made 
#44
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Posted 02 February 2013 - 02:38 PM
I'd put my vote in with Salvage points which can be converted to Faction points or C-bills.
Faction points give you the right to buy certain tech, C-bills to purchase them (albet at higher higher prices than IS counterparts).
Re-arming clan-tech should also require salvage OR Faction/-Cbills to obtain them through the faction channels.
Each faction has a strength/weakness of certain types of clan-tech or conversions (depending on how well their faction is doing perhaps), and Mercs have the advantage of getting tech from everyone (but probably harder to get enough faction points and might even have occasional blocks from purchasing because of the particular Faction's politics).
So it would go like this:
1) Win a game...get 100,000 salvage points.
2) Convert salvage points in the mech bay to either C-bills or Faction points.
3) Cash in Faction points or C-bills
4) Purchase Clan-tech through the Faction Store. Each clan item has a Faction AND C-bill cost to purchase. Want that ER-PPC? it'll cost you 50,000 Davion faction and XXX,000,000 C-bills (WHAT?!!!!!)
5) Enjoy your new toy!
(MC can be used to purchase Faction but not the items outright)
Faction points give you the right to buy certain tech, C-bills to purchase them (albet at higher higher prices than IS counterparts).
Re-arming clan-tech should also require salvage OR Faction/-Cbills to obtain them through the faction channels.
Each faction has a strength/weakness of certain types of clan-tech or conversions (depending on how well their faction is doing perhaps), and Mercs have the advantage of getting tech from everyone (but probably harder to get enough faction points and might even have occasional blocks from purchasing because of the particular Faction's politics).
So it would go like this:
1) Win a game...get 100,000 salvage points.
2) Convert salvage points in the mech bay to either C-bills or Faction points.
3) Cash in Faction points or C-bills
4) Purchase Clan-tech through the Faction Store. Each clan item has a Faction AND C-bill cost to purchase. Want that ER-PPC? it'll cost you 50,000 Davion faction and XXX,000,000 C-bills (WHAT?!!!!!)
5) Enjoy your new toy!
(MC can be used to purchase Faction but not the items outright)
Edited by Hakai, 02 February 2013 - 02:43 PM.
#45
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Posted 02 February 2013 - 02:39 PM
Zaptruder, on 02 February 2013 - 09:03 AM, said:
Clan v IS mechs have to be balanced in regards to the battle field. (and there are a few ways to do this without nerfing clan tech, including but not limited to simple balance by unequal numbers).
If you don't balance it there, the problem is whatever onerous restrictions you put on acquiring clan tech, it'll nonetheless become the end game goal for all players to get there.
I personally favour a reserve mech drop idea for IS mechs; because it gives players a strong incentive to still play IS mechs, whereas restricting numbers still means that you'll still see a shifting of players into clan mechs over time (because it's more fun for the individual to play the hero mech than to play the underpowered mech).
If you don't balance it there, the problem is whatever onerous restrictions you put on acquiring clan tech, it'll nonetheless become the end game goal for all players to get there.
I personally favour a reserve mech drop idea for IS mechs; because it gives players a strong incentive to still play IS mechs, whereas restricting numbers still means that you'll still see a shifting of players into clan mechs over time (because it's more fun for the individual to play the hero mech than to play the underpowered mech).
Unfortunately Zap, you "nerf" Clan tech to "balance it" it ain't Clan Tech anymore. Plain and simple some of the worst issues this game has too much focus on "balance". Military hardware ISN'T balanced. It's an eternal battle of weapon vs armor with each making strides to overcome the other.
If you really read through the post, the end goal may be to get Clan Tech... but then, that pretty much is the end goal once people see it anyhow in Battletech.. cuz it's better.
BUT
The system I am proposing means that they will NEVER be able to run it exclusively. Because to repair it requires salvage. And it can be lost forever if instead of damaged, it is "destroyed" in the fight. I might be in favor of a Chassis never being truly destroyed, but those will be unbelievable long and hard grinds to acquire, and you would STILL need to capture a lot of salvage to repair it. Hence people will still have plenty of reason to use stock 3025/3050 IS tech because there will be no way for someone to become so rich in Clan Salvage as to never have to worry. Especially when they try to use another Clan mech to procure Clan Salvage.. and then have to spend the salvage fixing that one too.
BUT.. your point makes me think of a modifier that would definitely solve that.....Dropping in a Clan Chassis could easily be set to gain no Clan Salvage Pts (the same simple mechanic used to deny XP on trial mechs back in the day), so the only way that you COULD repair your precious clan mech would be by dropping with IS tech. Though I don't think Inner Sphere Chassis mounting clan weapons should lose out. This also would likely mean you would reserve that Madcat or whatever for the most important of missions, or for tournaments.
#46
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Posted 02 February 2013 - 03:39 PM
Bishop Steiner, on 02 February 2013 - 02:39 PM, said:
BUT.. your point makes me think of a modifier that would definitely solve that.....Dropping in a Clan Chassis could easily be set to gain no Clan Salvage Pts (the same simple mechanic used to deny XP on trial mechs back in the day), so the only way that you COULD repair your precious clan mech would be by dropping with IS tech. Though I don't think Inner Sphere Chassis mounting clan weapons should lose out. This also would likely mean you would reserve that Madcat or whatever for the most important of missions, or for tournaments.
In another thread we've had a slight discussion of an "Honor" system for Clan players.
More honor, better chassis, weapons and equipment.
I think having a strict, honor system in place for the Clans in which you lose honor for doing things an Inner Sphere pilot considers standard operations would both stick with canon and add to the dynamics of gameplay and which would avoid too many Clan mechs just showing up out of nowhere. (examples of losing honor. Attacking targets you don't mark as your challenged target. Fighting a mech of a much lower weight class. Hitting a friendly mech because of horrible aim....etc).
Combine it with a salvage point and faction system and BAM....great balances abound.
Edited by Hakai, 02 February 2013 - 03:41 PM.
#47
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Posted 02 February 2013 - 05:36 PM
What if clan salvage could only drop in 8 man games? Would incentivise the 8 man game and avoid the QQ a salvage system could cause in a multi-player game.
#48
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Posted 02 February 2013 - 06:51 PM
I'm calling excellent idea on this one Bishop! And would more or less modulate the rewards system based on merit, skill and would motivate players to gain cool loot.
#49
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Posted 02 February 2013 - 07:23 PM
Clan-tech should be allowed on IS mechs when earned through a rigorous salvage and resources system (resources meaning contacts, highly skilled technicians, parts sources, etc) that keeps it special and rare. This is how most good GMs handled it overe the years in CBT/MW for their IS mechwarriors who fought through the Clan years, especially those of us who began before the Clans and lived through their coming.
From TT:
Purist wargamers often saw this through the set quantifiers of IS vs Clan and strongly preferred keeping each separate as part of the challenge of army makeup defined by the IS advantages of combined arms and eventual ramp-up of empire resources driving war production vs the Clans higher tech but susceptability to subterfuge during bargaining, societal dedication to certain limits on warfare behavior, and long distance from their home-space. A large section of the BT fanbase has always been of this mindset that rejects cross-civilizational tech use in order to keep the army tactical selections as originally envisioned to promote success based on ability to overcome these facts rather than from one or more mechs having a special advantage.
MW RPG players were always familiar with the above approach and knew it drove the majority of BT reality, but insisted upon some loopholes in order to realize continued hero character progress through the Clan years. Hero characters in BT history and novels did indeed cross these civilizational tech boundaries on rare occasions, and these advantages were always earned. And the best MW GMs carefully adapted ways to make this happen. After all, it wasn't about having the advantage as much as it was about striving to earn it.
MWO will succeed best by continuing to add elements that attract players of both these kinds, not to mention all the permutations of online gamers. But Clan-tech use by IS mechs must, must must be something damned hard-earned. From long experience GMing it I know...make em work for it, and ensure ways to keep it rare (yes...an extraordinarily difficult line to balance in MMOs where everyone finds out how to get everything...).
From TT:
Purist wargamers often saw this through the set quantifiers of IS vs Clan and strongly preferred keeping each separate as part of the challenge of army makeup defined by the IS advantages of combined arms and eventual ramp-up of empire resources driving war production vs the Clans higher tech but susceptability to subterfuge during bargaining, societal dedication to certain limits on warfare behavior, and long distance from their home-space. A large section of the BT fanbase has always been of this mindset that rejects cross-civilizational tech use in order to keep the army tactical selections as originally envisioned to promote success based on ability to overcome these facts rather than from one or more mechs having a special advantage.
MW RPG players were always familiar with the above approach and knew it drove the majority of BT reality, but insisted upon some loopholes in order to realize continued hero character progress through the Clan years. Hero characters in BT history and novels did indeed cross these civilizational tech boundaries on rare occasions, and these advantages were always earned. And the best MW GMs carefully adapted ways to make this happen. After all, it wasn't about having the advantage as much as it was about striving to earn it.
MWO will succeed best by continuing to add elements that attract players of both these kinds, not to mention all the permutations of online gamers. But Clan-tech use by IS mechs must, must must be something damned hard-earned. From long experience GMing it I know...make em work for it, and ensure ways to keep it rare (yes...an extraordinarily difficult line to balance in MMOs where everyone finds out how to get everything...).
Edited by Elyam, 02 February 2013 - 07:29 PM.
#50
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Posted 03 February 2013 - 05:42 AM
Elyam, on 02 February 2013 - 07:23 PM, said:
Clan-tech should be allowed on IS mechs when earned through a rigorous salvage and resources system (resources meaning contacts, highly skilled technicians, parts sources, etc) that keeps it special and rare. This is how most good GMs handled it overe the years in CBT/MW for their IS mechwarriors who fought through the Clan years, especially those of us who began before the Clans and lived through their coming.
From TT:
Purist wargamers often saw this through the set quantifiers of IS vs Clan and strongly preferred keeping each separate as part of the challenge of army makeup defined by the IS advantages of combined arms and eventual ramp-up of empire resources driving war production vs the Clans higher tech but susceptability to subterfuge during bargaining, societal dedication to certain limits on warfare behavior, and long distance from their home-space. A large section of the BT fanbase has always been of this mindset that rejects cross-civilizational tech use in order to keep the army tactical selections as originally envisioned to promote success based on ability to overcome these facts rather than from one or more mechs having a special advantage.
MW RPG players were always familiar with the above approach and knew it drove the majority of BT reality, but insisted upon some loopholes in order to realize continued hero character progress through the Clan years. Hero characters in BT history and novels did indeed cross these civilizational tech boundaries on rare occasions, and these advantages were always earned. And the best MW GMs carefully adapted ways to make this happen. After all, it wasn't about having the advantage as much as it was about striving to earn it.
MWO will succeed best by continuing to add elements that attract players of both these kinds, not to mention all the permutations of online gamers. But Clan-tech use by IS mechs must, must must be something damned hard-earned. From long experience GMing it I know...make em work for it, and ensure ways to keep it rare (yes...an extraordinarily difficult line to balance in MMOs where everyone finds out how to get everything...).
From TT:
Purist wargamers often saw this through the set quantifiers of IS vs Clan and strongly preferred keeping each separate as part of the challenge of army makeup defined by the IS advantages of combined arms and eventual ramp-up of empire resources driving war production vs the Clans higher tech but susceptability to subterfuge during bargaining, societal dedication to certain limits on warfare behavior, and long distance from their home-space. A large section of the BT fanbase has always been of this mindset that rejects cross-civilizational tech use in order to keep the army tactical selections as originally envisioned to promote success based on ability to overcome these facts rather than from one or more mechs having a special advantage.
MW RPG players were always familiar with the above approach and knew it drove the majority of BT reality, but insisted upon some loopholes in order to realize continued hero character progress through the Clan years. Hero characters in BT history and novels did indeed cross these civilizational tech boundaries on rare occasions, and these advantages were always earned. And the best MW GMs carefully adapted ways to make this happen. After all, it wasn't about having the advantage as much as it was about striving to earn it.
MWO will succeed best by continuing to add elements that attract players of both these kinds, not to mention all the permutations of online gamers. But Clan-tech use by IS mechs must, must must be something damned hard-earned. From long experience GMing it I know...make em work for it, and ensure ways to keep it rare (yes...an extraordinarily difficult line to balance in MMOs where everyone finds out how to get everything...).
so you are saying YES. Cool story and all though. (The whole concept of this mechanic was actually based off of many many years of doing just as you described in TT)
#51
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Posted 05 February 2013 - 08:01 AM
Bump for a great idea!
#52
Posted 05 February 2013 - 08:08 AM
I don't think Clan tech will be available to IS mechs. If they follow canon, clan tech doesn't get fielded by IS units for another 8 years or so. It would make no sense to add a potentially game breaking element especially when it breaks canon.
They will most likely keep IS mechs (using IS tech) vs. Clan mechs (at reduced numbers like 8 vs. 5).
They will most likely keep IS mechs (using IS tech) vs. Clan mechs (at reduced numbers like 8 vs. 5).
#53
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Posted 05 February 2013 - 08:15 AM
Bishop Steiner, on 31 January 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:
Now, before blowing me up, please hear me out. As most know, by the lively debate on one of my questions, I have reservations about finding a system that will "fairly" allow access to thee Clans and Clan Tech (even for Inner Sphere forces) that won't end up making Clan Tech essentially mandatory to maintain competitive play (see MW4 online leagues).
Anyhow, I am not claiming this idea as my own, Bagheera planted the seeds of it, and this is just my "epiphany and run" take on the idea:
I actually REALLY like the idea "Parts Salvage" .. dunno if I am thinking in the same lines as you, since they pretty obviously can't just decide at the end of a match "hey, Bob gets a large laser, Mike gets a PPC, etc". Hence we get C-bill "salvage awards". Fine, but TBH loses some of the flavor of Battltech.
BUT
If each match ended with "Salvage Points" broken down into "Inner Sphere Salvage Points" and "Clan Salvage Points" awarded separately from the C-bills, I think it could set up an interesting side part to the economy.
Have Clan Equipment ONLY available (mechs too) by purchasing with "Clan Salvage Points", for instance, which cannot be gained in any way but playing matches. So to get a Clan ER Large Laser for instance might cost "X" Clan Salvage Pts (referred to from here as CSpts), the ER PPC, "Z" CSpts. These points are only earned in Drops against Clan Opponents. So one could, slowly earn enough to kit out their IS mech (with "Clan Tech Enabler Module") to Clan Weapons and Equipment, or conceivably even "salvage" a whole Clan Mech. But if RnR gets reconstituted in CW, then you would also need Clan Salvage points to repair the Weapons and Equipment, since you can't buy s new Clan Medium Pulse Laser at RadioShack.
Ditto with Inner Sphere Matches, you can supplement your C-Bills with ISSpts (InnerSphereSalvagePoints) and such. Hence it completely removes any "P2W" as one cannot purchase it, nor does Premium time affect it. It also makes Clan Tech available to all, but one really has to work to attain and keep it, thus keeping Inner Sphere mechs viable.
Anyhow, NOW, if you have read all this, feel free ti rip it to shreds and point out where I am a blue bellied fool!
TL:DR.... add "Salvage Points" to the awards screen, broken into 2 categories "Inner Sphere and Clan", awarded according to which faction one faced and adjusted by W/L, Kills, Damage, etc. These points can be earned only through battle, and are the only way to access and repair Clan Mechs and technology.
Anyhow, I am not claiming this idea as my own, Bagheera planted the seeds of it, and this is just my "epiphany and run" take on the idea:
I actually REALLY like the idea "Parts Salvage" .. dunno if I am thinking in the same lines as you, since they pretty obviously can't just decide at the end of a match "hey, Bob gets a large laser, Mike gets a PPC, etc". Hence we get C-bill "salvage awards". Fine, but TBH loses some of the flavor of Battltech.
BUT
If each match ended with "Salvage Points" broken down into "Inner Sphere Salvage Points" and "Clan Salvage Points" awarded separately from the C-bills, I think it could set up an interesting side part to the economy.
Have Clan Equipment ONLY available (mechs too) by purchasing with "Clan Salvage Points", for instance, which cannot be gained in any way but playing matches. So to get a Clan ER Large Laser for instance might cost "X" Clan Salvage Pts (referred to from here as CSpts), the ER PPC, "Z" CSpts. These points are only earned in Drops against Clan Opponents. So one could, slowly earn enough to kit out their IS mech (with "Clan Tech Enabler Module") to Clan Weapons and Equipment, or conceivably even "salvage" a whole Clan Mech. But if RnR gets reconstituted in CW, then you would also need Clan Salvage points to repair the Weapons and Equipment, since you can't buy s new Clan Medium Pulse Laser at RadioShack.
Ditto with Inner Sphere Matches, you can supplement your C-Bills with ISSpts (InnerSphereSalvagePoints) and such. Hence it completely removes any "P2W" as one cannot purchase it, nor does Premium time affect it. It also makes Clan Tech available to all, but one really has to work to attain and keep it, thus keeping Inner Sphere mechs viable.
Anyhow, NOW, if you have read all this, feel free ti rip it to shreds and point out where I am a blue bellied fool!
TL:DR.... add "Salvage Points" to the awards screen, broken into 2 categories "Inner Sphere and Clan", awarded according to which faction one faced and adjusted by W/L, Kills, Damage, etc. These points can be earned only through battle, and are the only way to access and repair Clan Mechs and technology.
That's all well and good....but how do you seed that tech in the first place? If the only way to gain clan tech is to beat clan tech, than a significant portion of the population must be granted access to it outright. More likely, they will just limit clan tech to clan mechs at first and then slowly merge the two over time. Eventually, Clan variants will replace IS variants, but this has always been the way of things in the long run.
#54
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Posted 05 February 2013 - 08:16 AM
How bout we let them implement the clans how they want then offer ideas. We have no idea the manner in which they will come nor even if they will any time soon. I am sure the devs have a plan they are going by and mo number of player ideas will alter it. So let it play out.
#55
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Posted 05 February 2013 - 08:26 AM
My suggestion for Rare Salvage outlined here: http://mwomercs.com/...eedback-thread/
That suggestion is strictly for IS tech.
I nether want or need Clan tech.
Eventually i think it will be introduced. Kind of like "3rd Person view," there are just too many people that want it. But I hope that introduction is "YEARS" away from being implemented.
Because once clan tech is introduced, then what the hell's the point of having an IS tech. You are going to have to have one hell of a community warfare to continue the fight because it will be a mass exodus towards all the clan tech.
Clans have better mechs
Clans have better tech
Clans have better weapons
The only reason to have salvage is to put "Clan" tech on your IS mechs, then what the hell is the point?
Might as well of just started with clan mechs, tech and keep to the clans.
I don't envy PGI if they ever decide to make this leap. I would say they are better equip ed than most other companies but still they are in for one helluva bumpy ride.
That suggestion is strictly for IS tech.
I nether want or need Clan tech.
Eventually i think it will be introduced. Kind of like "3rd Person view," there are just too many people that want it. But I hope that introduction is "YEARS" away from being implemented.
Because once clan tech is introduced, then what the hell's the point of having an IS tech. You are going to have to have one hell of a community warfare to continue the fight because it will be a mass exodus towards all the clan tech.
Clans have better mechs
Clans have better tech
Clans have better weapons
The only reason to have salvage is to put "Clan" tech on your IS mechs, then what the hell is the point?
Might as well of just started with clan mechs, tech and keep to the clans.
I don't envy PGI if they ever decide to make this leap. I would say they are better equip ed than most other companies but still they are in for one helluva bumpy ride.
#56
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Posted 05 February 2013 - 08:30 AM
Salvage system could be like unlocking treasure chests in other free to play games - there's a randomized chance that one of the 'Mechs you killed could be "salvaged," or opened by techs. If you use the free option you have a chance at a c-bill bonus. If you use an MC option to hire better Techs, you get a substantial c-bill bonus, with a chance to salvage a piece of rare equipment.
Make it an interactive mini game, make it a revenue maker for the game. People love to gamble, and I bet people would buy MC to try to hire better techs to salvage the chassis they get.
Make it an interactive mini game, make it a revenue maker for the game. People love to gamble, and I bet people would buy MC to try to hire better techs to salvage the chassis they get.
#57
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Posted 05 February 2013 - 08:37 AM
And let me clarify my post above as far as timeline - as others have mentioned, we need to go through a few years of the invasion before any IS mech outside of the Dragoons can even be considered for mounting a single piece of cross-civilizational tech, around 3053 at the earliest for extremely rare cases, 3056 for the next stage, 3058 the next, and so on. I'm still very concerned about it in MWO since MMO's historically fail to keep genies in bottles. But striving to find a way to carefully pull it off is important.
By this standard, one might wonder if I expect, say, a couple dozen MWO IS players to have earned a piece or two of Clantech by 2016 based on the devs' synchronized passing of time. The notion makes me realize they'll have to speed things up and perhaps go wth a 1:3 time ratio. But it also highlights again the difficulty of this thread's main thrust in a game like MWO versus how we handled it in tabletop MW. I can think it's important all I want...but is it feasible, all things considered?
By this standard, one might wonder if I expect, say, a couple dozen MWO IS players to have earned a piece or two of Clantech by 2016 based on the devs' synchronized passing of time. The notion makes me realize they'll have to speed things up and perhaps go wth a 1:3 time ratio. But it also highlights again the difficulty of this thread's main thrust in a game like MWO versus how we handled it in tabletop MW. I can think it's important all I want...but is it feasible, all things considered?
Edited by Elyam, 05 February 2013 - 08:40 AM.
#58
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Posted 05 February 2013 - 09:16 AM
only clan mechs should be able to use clan tech
#59
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Posted 05 February 2013 - 09:17 AM
Clan tech is vastly superior yes, but the IS get's dominated in the first few months (before they retreated back into clan space) of their introduction and few clan mechs were salvaged, so it basically took around 2 years before the IS was able to backwards engineer their tech and all of the houses had access to it.
IE, this is the new American Stealth fighter which has been in R&D and testing phases for years:
This is Iran's newly declared stealth fighter:
The consensus in the aerospace community is that this thing is currently a model and will never fly.
IE, this is the new American Stealth fighter which has been in R&D and testing phases for years:
This is Iran's newly declared stealth fighter:
The consensus in the aerospace community is that this thing is currently a model and will never fly.
#60
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Posted 05 February 2013 - 11:20 AM
Carrioncrows, on 05 February 2013 - 08:26 AM, said:
My suggestion for Rare Salvage outlined here: http://mwomercs.com/...eedback-thread/
That suggestion is strictly for IS tech.
I nether want or need Clan tech.
Eventually i think it will be introduced. Kind of like "3rd Person view," there are just too many people that want it. But I hope that introduction is "YEARS" away from being implemented.
Because once clan tech is introduced, then what the hell's the point of having an IS tech. You are going to have to have one hell of a community warfare to continue the fight because it will be a mass exodus towards all the clan tech.
Clans have better mechs
Clans have better tech
Clans have better weapons
The only reason to have salvage is to put "Clan" tech on your IS mechs, then what the hell is the point?
Might as well of just started with clan mechs, tech and keep to the clans.
I don't envy PGI if they ever decide to make this leap. I would say they are better equip ed than most other companies but still they are in for one helluva bumpy ride.
That suggestion is strictly for IS tech.
I nether want or need Clan tech.
Eventually i think it will be introduced. Kind of like "3rd Person view," there are just too many people that want it. But I hope that introduction is "YEARS" away from being implemented.
Because once clan tech is introduced, then what the hell's the point of having an IS tech. You are going to have to have one hell of a community warfare to continue the fight because it will be a mass exodus towards all the clan tech.
Clans have better mechs
Clans have better tech
Clans have better weapons
The only reason to have salvage is to put "Clan" tech on your IS mechs, then what the hell is the point?
Might as well of just started with clan mechs, tech and keep to the clans.
I don't envy PGI if they ever decide to make this leap. I would say they are better equip ed than most other companies but still they are in for one helluva bumpy ride.
the "point" is that not everyone will be playing the Clans. And not only by canon, but because it is better, many IS pilots will duct tape Clan Salvage to their mechs. 12 ton Gauss Rifle vs 15 ton one.. yeah, tough choice.
to Kurupts point, I am not remotely talking about reverse engineering for mass production. That is a different story entirely. I am talking about the number of Mechwarrior MacGuyvers that will have Clan Tech strapped to their toys.
While admittedly spread throughout the 3 pages. These things are detailed. Don't let a closed mind get in your way, though.
And finally.. the "where does it come from" has already been addressed.
Edited by Bishop Steiner, 05 February 2013 - 11:21 AM.
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