100 replies to this topic

[Jimskiavic]

Vulk, on 27 February 2013 - 12:15 PM, said:

there are things you cannot change, suck it up, play the game and enjoy it!

Well exactly.

[Vulk Kell]

Jimskiavic, on 27 February 2013 - 05:55 PM, said:

Well exactly.

Thank you for finally seeing the reason and aceeding to creativity and freedom instead of close mindedness

[Pihb]

qultar, on 01 February 2013 - 10:34 AM, said:

you can not just make up a clan if you want to do this make a merc unit
at this rate we will see clan fluffy bunny in a week

I would join clan fluffy bunny...

[Jimskiavic]

Vulk, on 28 February 2013 - 01:23 PM, said:

Thank you for finally seeing the reason and aceeding to creativity and freedom instead of close mindedness

I don't think you understood my post.

I'm all for creativity and freedom, but given we're in the BTverse here, it has to be within the context and constraints of that universe. There are simply some things that are set, and, as you point out, we cannot change. There are still a huge amount of creative possibilities though!

To do the old reductio ad absurdum, would you support the existence (in a 3050 timeline) of a Clan Fluffy Bunny? What about lightsabers? To be slightly less absurd (or perhaps it is more absurd, in a way): would you deny that the Second Soviet Civil War began in 2011, after the assassination of Oleg Tikonov?

[sj mausgmr]

Welcome to the fold, Snow Wolves

[Aetius]

Jimskiavic, on 28 February 2013 - 10:14 PM, said:

I don't think you understood my post.

I'm all for creativity and freedom, but given we're in the BTverse here, it has to be within the context and constraints of that universe. There are simply some things that are set, and, as you point out, we cannot change. There are still a huge amount of creative possibilities though!

To do the old reductio ad absurdum, would you support the existence (in a 3050 timeline) of a Clan Fluffy Bunny? What about lightsabers? To be slightly less absurd (or perhaps it is more absurd, in a way): would you deny that the Second Soviet Civil War began in 2011, after the assassination of Oleg Tikonov?

I think the thing that leads to frustration here is that many have grown over the years reading the stories and playing the games of the Mechwarrior Universe. Its great to read and listen to the books. Many feel that universe is set in stone. At least until another author comes along and changes something in that universe. Still they usually stick closely to the canon.

But here we are getting to be apart of that universe. This is a great thing. But the developers, nor any of the creative minds behind MWO ever laid down a set of rules as to how we envolve ourselves in that universe. With that friction will be inevitable amoungst the community. So where do we draw the line? Should every Khan, Dictator, President, or King rename thier online character to match the stories of old? Of course not.

No one here to my knowledge is attempting to rewrite the universe. Just trying to make a small place for ourselves in it. We are not trying to rename an exsisting clan or change thier canon. Just saying that we want a small one of our own to represent the ideals we share and follow. We are not stating that the books or history is incorrect. Just not complete. Every gamer in MWO is telling the stories that have not been shared up to this point. At least not until now.

We all have to choose how far we take our creativity. But no one should dictate how others express thiers.

Edited by Aetius, 01 March 2013 - 09:34 AM.

[Aetius]

Also one more thing. I do not take offense to any who voice thier opinions. They are coming from a place of passion. To that many warriors including myself have the highest respect for you. Without that passion you would be but a leaf on the battlefield. That passion is what drives all of us to be better warriors.

So to all of those who voice thier voices for us or against us, I salute you.

[Cheddar7]

Well said Aetius!
Good Hunting Mechwarriors.

[MasterSpectre1]

How can I join

[Teir Dasande]

Alright, this is the same thing that happened to 'Clan' Ice Dragon, and will happen here. Unless you are a sub sect of one of the canon clans, you do not belong here, you belong in Merc Outreach, with everyone else. You can run your group how ever you see fit, but you do not belong amidst the Clans. This will be moved to Outreach shortly.

But best of luck in your endeavors, who knows what Community Warfare will bring for the non canon clans.

[LockeJaw]

I like these guys.

Don't hold it against them.

Bump.

MasterSpectre1, on 14 May 2013 - 04:29 PM, said:

How can I join

NGNG TS3. They have their own section.

[Dakkaface]

Vulk, on 28 February 2013 - 01:23 PM, said:

Thank you for finally seeing the reason and aceeding to creativity and freedom instead of close mindedness

Mezlo Mezzerak, on 21 February 2013 - 11:27 AM, said:

of course this is also not canon, So it seems to me that if you go solely by canon,you would be limiting the game severely. Is that what we all really want,to throw away the creativeness that we all have within ourselves?

I find this sort of statement fairly insulting. What you're doing, is claiming you are more creative than anyone who has ever written anything professionally for a pre-established setting.

When working with the lore of established universe, you accept certain strictures. I.E. - the Jedi get hunted down during the Clone Wars, the Enterprise has these particular crew members on board at this period of time, the Browncoats lost, there are an established number of Clans and Successor States, etc. Working within these strictures requires more creativity than ignoring them, because you must account for them when building your history and fiction. This also lends more weight to what you come up with.

When you work within the structure of the setting, you get things like 'Thok Kal'dis is an aging, down on his luck Twi'lek smuggler with few prospects. Han Solo took a bunch of the good work from him back in the day and now he operates out of a badly maintained freighter with one working laser cannon.' This character has weight and believability to it because it operates within the setting - there's no set number of smugglers, Twi'leks are a known race, you're not stepping on anything established by canon - you're painting in the blank spaces between the canon entries, and filling in cracks around the primary story.

When you ignore the structure of the setting you get things like 'This is Sparkleshine Awesome Pony, and she's a special magic pony that came through a wormhole and is the best Jedi ever and she knows unicorn magic and she was secretly on the Jedi Council before Palpatine made the Empire and she escaped the Purge because she was awesome and flew away on her teleporting transforming mecha dragon, and she saved Mace Windu and all the other Jedi with magic and she and Obi-wan are in love. and she can cure Sith and make them Jedi again' This has no weight to it. It's parody at best and atrocious at worst because it disregards established canon in multiple places so that the creator can have things their way, regardless of what has been established previously.

Ignoring canon doesn't make you creative. It means you are ignoring canon, and it's to the detriment of your writing/fiction/background piece.

I mean, it's not even terribly hard to take the modicum of effort to make your idea fit into the established lore. Why must it be Clan Snow Wolf? When the Spirit Cats and Steel Wolves splintered from their clans in the Dark Age, they didn't call themselves 'Clan Spirit Cat' and 'Clan Steel Wolf.' Why can't you just be a splinter group of Clan Wolf, the Snow Wolves? Or a unit from Clan Wolf? 'Clan Wolf Sigma Galaxy - the Snow Wolves?' Clan Wolf Sponsored Mercs a-la Wolf's Dragoons - Snow Wolf Company? Any of these works in-setting, steps on no toes, and still leaves you as a Clan unit affiliated with the Wolves. All it's missing is the 'Clan' in the name. Of course, you'll probably dismiss the suggestion as 'bowing to the haters' or perhaps because it ruins a lovely trolling opportunity.

I guess this ran a little long, with all the editor advice but hey my points are pretty simple.

TL;DR:
1) It's not good writing, or 'creativity' to disregard canon.
2) Why must it be Clan Snow Wolf?

Edited by Dakkaface, 14 May 2013 - 06:56 PM.

[CutterWolf]

Trust me when I tell you that you will "not" be playing a non-cannon Clan period. We already tried this root and PGI said no. If you want to play "any" custom unit you have no other option than to me a Merc. Don't beleave me? I can post the proof for you.

PGI's response

Sent 03 May 2013 - 03:02 PM
Hi there CutterWolf,

As I'm sure you are well-aware, the list of known Clans is something that is pretty strongly threaded into the lore of BattleTech, much more so than the design of Merc Corps which was to allow the level of player customization that you seek.

For the time being we have no room for custom fan generated clans to mix into the Lore of the game itself. We have to limit to what is canon. While your efforts to create fan content are greatly appreciated, the goal may be one day to have all the Clans present and playable, and if that is the case, we must limit the definition of Clans to only those previously mentioned as the followers of Kerensky.

For the time being, as per Operation Revival, the goal will most likely be for the development team to focus first on introducing the 4 which pathed to the Inner Sphere. Discussion of other clans is permitted but not to be currently expected to appear in the game any time soon. Hope this helps!

Edited by CutterWolf, 14 May 2013 - 07:00 PM.

[Mistake Not My Current State]

You are betrayers, deserters and renegades. There cannot be other Clans next to the Clans founded by Nicholas Kerensky. YOU WILL BE ANNIHILATED. Seyla.

[qki]

still wrong place to post this. The clan forum is for discussing the canon clans of Battletech.

For the sake of argument - look at Warhammer 40K, There, GW has intentionally left holes in the history, like naming only 18 of the original 20 Space Marine Legions, and opening the way for virtually limitless chapters with their subsequent foundings.

The one policy GW actually enforces, is "no story arc forward" - meaning it is impossible for something to happen in the novels, that would resurrect the emperor, or, say - wipe out the ultramarines, as Tyranids lay siege to Terra.


In Battletech, however, no such windows exist. FASA named all 20 clans, and at the present point in the timeline, 4 have invaded the Inner Sphere.

Claiming to be a new, previously unheard of Clan is like saying that the Doofus Empire, made up of renegade German officers, who fled to the north, and hooked up with the Eskimos were fighting in the World War II, attacking Ireland and carving out territory of their own.


As of right now, the various sourcebooks cover a period from 2571, to 3145 in the BT universe, and while some minor events are left out - like the actual engagements or minor struggles of most of the Succession Wars, the factions (except mercenary units) are pretty much set in stone.

The only period that does leave a little room for invention (for now, at least) is the Dark Age (3132+), when minor factions such as Steel Wolves, Wolf Hunters, and "Clan" Spirit Cats formed. Coupled with the destruction of Clan Ice Hellion during the Wars of Reaving and the fact that not all Ice Hellion, and even Wolverine personnel is accounted for, there might be some minor factions out there, but the crux of the matter is that none of them take part in the events at hand.

Edit: apparently, the word filter blocks the N-word (meaning members of the German National Socialist Work Party, or NSDAP) - geez people, the N's were a side in WW2, like it or not.

Edited by qki, 15 May 2013 - 02:52 AM.

[zraven7]

Niko Snow, on 15 May 2013 - 08:50 AM, said:

As per http://mwomercs.com/...17-canon-clans/
I must move this thread to Outreach and treat it as we would any other Merc Corps.

That said, I also feel a bit like Nicholas Kerensky after Operation Klondike right now too. ^^

Well, at least he's upset he had to make the decision...

Eh, the Clans are nuts, anywho. Why not slum it with us Inner Sphere Lone Wolfs? We've got beer and pizza, and we don't care if you wanna be "Clan Snow Wolf" or "Clan Chainsaw-Wielding Ninja Chicken" (Heck, if you ever feel like changing your name, you can have that one on me). If you're not trying to kill me, you're good enough to have a drink and a meal with. :-)

[Teir Dasande]

Niko you continue to make me a happy mechwarrior. As for the rest of this thread, I told you so.

[On1m]

Niko Snow, on 15 May 2013 - 08:50 AM, said:

As per http://mwomercs.com/...17-canon-clans/
I must move this thread to Outreach and treat it as we would any other Merc Corps.

That said, I also feel a bit like Nicholas Kerensky after Operation Klondike right now too. ^^

That's fine Niko. We appreciate all of the trouble you go through on the forums.

As to all of the people complaining that this thread belongs in a different section or that we are not a "true clan" I ask why?

Why can't we call ourselves what ever we want and play as a clan style unit? Why do we have to call ourselves one of the 17 current clans, or one of the 7 invading clans?

qki we our quite well aware of the contradictions and inconsistancies inherent in our creation of Clan Snow Wolf. As a long time Battletech fan I had many vociferous arguments with Vulk about his decision to post this to the forums but I backed him up precisely because we didn't want to play as one of the invading clans. Several members of our clan were founding members of Clan Wolf-In-Exile from MW4 and they were adamant that they didn't want to go through the same infighting and screaming matches on forums where various groups would denonce them and claim that they couldn't be Clan Wolf-In-Exile because the other group was. In answer to your comment that this was the wrong place to post this thread at the time of posting this was the right place.

CutterWolf we are aware of PGI's official response and we're fine with it. When community warfare starts and we can change our allegiance to the clans we will be doing so. That is all that matters to us and we are not interested in playing as one of the official named clans. We have infact spoken to most of the official clans, multiple versions of the official clans in fact, and all have been supportive of us and our reasons for choosing not to play as a named clan. All have welcomed us to drop with them and are looking forward to fighting with us against the inner sphere.

Teir Dasande and Dakkaface. As for your concern that we are not a clan unit. If you take a look at Clan Wolf's Beta Galaxy on Sarna you will see that there is lots of space for us to fit ourselves in, which we have for our internal story. Also I would like to say that what was posted in this thread was an early version of our history and it has since undergone major changes and revision to better fit in with the canon story line. As for posting the new story for you to read, NO. That would just invite another round of critique and vitrolic discussion that I have neither the time nor the patience for right now.

In the end what matters to us is that we want to avoid the controversy and argument of being a named clan, and I guess in a way we succeded but got a different type of controversy. Oh well, what matters is that we are a like minded group of people who like to have fun, belong to an group that we can control and shape the story of and have fun dropping together. Once the clans are introduced and the invasion begins we will see you on the battle field.

Seyla,

Edited by On1m, 11 October 2013 - 07:07 PM.

[Dakkaface]

On1m, on 19 May 2013 - 07:26 AM, said:

Teir Dasande and Dakkaface. As for your concern that we are not a clan unit. http://www.sarna.net...28Clan_Wolf%29. Lots of space for us to fit ourselves in there, which we have for our internal story. Also I would like to say that what was posted in this thread was an early version of our history and it has since undergone major changes and revision to better fit in with the canon story line. As for posting the new story for you to read, NO. That would just invite another round of critique and vitrolic discussion that I have neither the time nor the patience for right now.

You seem to have completely missed the point of my post. I personally will not lose any sleep if you continue to call yourselves Clan Snow Wolf. I know there are going to be non-canon units and goofy names will be inevitable because of the nature of the online game. I've already seen more than a few - Erdani Light Pony, anyone? I was more incensed at the implication that you are more creative for ignoring the strictures of the setting than any number of published authors who have written work for established settings. That when asked to consider the setting, you thought that your creativity was being squashed. It's not true, and I even threw out three different ways that you could make a Clan unit while respecting the setting and without the word 'Clan' in the name.

Personally, I enjoy critiquing amateur fiction - not because I enjoy heaping vitriol on new writers but because I want to see their craft bettered. I spend considerably more time on a few forums dedicated to that, and comparatively little here. If you want to send me what you have via PM instead of posting here, I'd be happy to beta some of your work.

[Draco Harkins]

Greetings Vulk,

I'm a Davion, that said i saw two things that i had to give my opinion as BT loremaster, you indeed are NOT a cannon clan. That is a fact and no matter what is said to embelish it, BUT, for the sheer detail that i've read from your post, your knowledge of the BT lore and the historical positioning i can see that you at least are not part of the twitch kids "IMA A CLAZ CUZ I WANTIS IT, DEALZ WITH IT!".

That alone made my head nod in a positive mannor, yes you are not cannon, but if the rest of your clan is like you, you're all old guard, and for me at least, i welcome you, we need more of us around here!

I also sense a little conflit between you and another clan, which makes me believe you're a splinter group of that same group, in the community sense of it (as long as theres no lack of respect!) a little RP competition would spice up things in the long run.

I also agree that if you want to be taken seriously why not a trial of position? Or you do not want to follow clan law? (just curious question no offense intended)

For me, as an individual, i welcome your group to the fray. Lets see what you do with it...

Edited by Draco Harkins, 19 May 2013 - 10:46 PM.