67 replies to this topic

[Eddrick]

I like the new flight formation for Missiles.

[anonymous175]

[LaserAngel]

Khobai, on 31 January 2013 - 05:08 PM, said:

If Artemis was't a must-have nobody would use it. Would you rather have a bunch of equipment nobody uses?

Artemis is supposed to be compulsory for missile boats. The only reason you wouldnt use Artemis is if you only had one LRM launcher and didnt have the crit slots/tonnage for Artemis (like the LRM10 on a stock dragon). But obviously single LRM5s and LRM10s are garbage because AMS destroys their entire volley. If youre gonna use LRMs you need to go with 15s or 20s and you need Artemis.

Plenty of people boat LRMs without Artemis. They don't know what they're missing out on. You'll have your missiles in the air before they even have lock!

Addendum: The new firing pattern for Artemis will help you even more when shooting from tight spaces. Cover and buildings won't eat the spread on the sides. They will come out of the launchers near straight on. I'm going to love this in my Catapult C1.

Edited by LaserAngel, 31 January 2013 - 09:25 PM.

[DocBach]

Personally don't really use artemis for the ridiculous price it costs to take it of when I decide I want to play as a different role. I do, however, understand that my 'Mech isn't an omnimech and rerouting fire control systems should be an expensive endeavor and I don't fault the game for that. But its just not something I'd spend C-bills on.

[LaserAngel]

DocBach, on 31 January 2013 - 09:27 PM, said:

Personally don't really use artemis for the ridiculous price it costs to take it of when I decide I want to play as a different role. I do, however, understand that my 'Mech isn't an omnimech and rerouting fire control systems should be an expensive endeavor and I don't fault the game for that. But its just not something I'd spend C-bills on.

I find it more valuable for LRMs than anything else. On top of that I have mounted on my Founder's Catapult for whenever R & R comes back.

I did try it out on my Stalkers but you'd be better off only using it on the 3H that is capable of lobbing 20 missiles per launcher in a single salvo. Right now people just slap every launcher they can onto their mech, load up on ammo, blow their missile load, and see what hits. Artemis reduces the number of total launchers on the mech given the additional tonnage/critical space but it does make those fewer launchers much more effective. I see this as a soft nerf to LRMs.

Really, don't bring vanilla LRMs to an Artemis party. You'll lose.

[SpiralRazor]

DocBach, on 31 January 2013 - 05:04 PM, said:

Who has PGI historically paid attention to? People with well thought-out and fact based arguments, or people crying?

Whiners of course...they stopped paying attention to us true beta testers long ago.

[MustrumRidcully]

Looks interesting. But these are Artemis-only changes? Will need to see that in action to figure out if it's better or worse.

DocBach, on 31 January 2013 - 05:04 PM, said:

Who has PGI historically paid attention to? People with well thought-out and fact based arguments, or people crying?

Having tried it all, neither.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 01 February 2013 - 03:38 AM.

[Sifright]

MustrumRidcully, on 01 February 2013 - 03:37 AM, said:

Having tried it all, neither.

I know that feel bro

[Irvine]

That is why I <3 my tag+ALRM combo Catapult

[Steinar Bergstol]

Lykaon, on 31 January 2013 - 08:00 PM, said:

It is possible that LRMs may need damage reduced from 1.8 to a lower value.The primary reasoning for increasing LRM damage to 1.8 was the volley spread if that is not a factor then maybe the damage should be reajusted to match new performances.

LRMs and SRMs have increased damage values 1.8 from 1 for LRMs and 2.5 from 2 for SRMs both values were tweaked to address volley spreads.

Oddly enough most weapons systems have their effective damage halved by doubling armor while LRMs only lost 20% damage from doubled armor values.

The reason missiles had their damage per missile increased from TT values is because unlike ACs, lasers, PPCs and so on missiles don't have pinpoint damage. You can plant every gauss shot or laser blast in an alpha in the same location on the target, but missile damage is spread out across the mech, as per TT rules (more or less) and therefore the reason for doubling armor (locations got blasted away too fast due to pinpoint accuracy) doesn't apply to them.

[LaserAngel]

Steinar Bergstol, on 01 February 2013 - 05:02 AM, said:

The reason missiles had their damage per missile increased from TT values is because unlike ACs, lasers, PPCs and so on missiles don't have pinpoint damage. You can plant every gauss shot or laser blast in an alpha in the same location on the target, but missile damage is spread out across the mech, as per TT rules (more or less) and therefore the reason for doubling armor (locations got blasted away too fast due to pinpoint accuracy) doesn't apply to them.

Not to mention LRMs only travel at 100 m/s. They buffed their range to 1,000 m (630m TT) but they do take 10 seconds to get there. Viable LRM fire? 180-600m at best.

[Viper69]

Makes the extra crit slot and tonnage worth it now.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

DocBach, on 31 January 2013 - 04:57 PM, said:

grouping looks way too tight - wait until the complaints drop on the forums.

yes how DARE THEY fix something. I doubt itll get in game with all the QQ. You cant make LRMs better.

LaserAngel, on 01 February 2013 - 07:58 AM, said:

Not to mention LRMs only travel at 100 m/s. They buffed their range to 1,000 m (630m TT) but they do take 10 seconds to get there. Viable LRM fire? 180-600m at best.

also they had to add a visual and audio warning that the missiles were incoming because people couldnt figure out on their own that the cloud of missiles coming at them was bad.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Lykaon, on 31 January 2013 - 08:00 PM, said:

It is possible that LRMs may need damage reduced from 1.8 to a lower value.The primary reasoning for increasing LRM damage to 1.8 was the volley spread if that is not a factor then maybe the damage should be reajusted to match new performances.

LRMs and SRMs have increased damage values 1.8 from 1 for LRMs and 2.5 from 2 for SRMs both values were tweaked to address volley spreads.

Oddly enough most weapons systems have their effective damage halved by doubling armor while LRMs only lost 20% damage from doubled armor values.

They did that before. The QQ was so epic they raised the damage to 1.8

[Yankee77]

Lykaon, on 31 January 2013 - 08:00 PM, said:

Oddly enough most weapons systems have their effective damage halved by doubling armor while LRMs only lost 20% damage from doubled armor values.

But LRMs have a large number of disadvantages and counters that do not exist in TT. And that's BEFORE ECM. If we were going to care about TT damage values, LRMs would need to be much, much faster, for example.

[LORD ORION]

The new spin LOOKS TERRIBLE

The old one with less convergence at intervals along the flight path would look way better.

Edited by LORD ORION, 01 February 2013 - 08:39 AM.

[Yankee77]

Also, I find using Artemis becomes less useful when you also have a TAG on target. It's still excellent, but its value is not quite as high.

I recently took artemis off my LRM C1 in order to upgrade to 2 PPCs, and I haven't regretted it. My TAG provides ample grouping, and the LRMs enjoy blasting through the holes my PPCs have blown in enemy armor.

[LaserAngel]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 01 February 2013 - 08:16 AM, said:

also they had to add a visual and audio warning that the missiles were incoming because people couldnt figure out on their own that the cloud of missiles coming at them was bad.

It's getting hard to remember a time before getting the "Incoming Missile" warning at the very least.

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 01 February 2013 - 08:22 AM, said:

They did that before. The QQ was so epic they raised the damage to 1.8

It was 1.7 for a week or two and they did mention they were looking into a slight increase if it was needed.

Itkovian, on 01 February 2013 - 08:42 AM, said:

Also, I find using Artemis becomes less useful when you also have a TAG on target. It's still excellent, but its value is not quite as high.

I recently took artemis off my LRM C1 in order to upgrade to 2 PPCs, and I haven't regretted it. My TAG provides ample grouping, and the LRMs enjoy blasting through the holes my PPCs have blown in enemy armor.

I was probably the guy hitting you with my Artemis LRMs on River City. Were your friends using PPCs and camping? Or in the water on Forest Colony.

Edited by LaserAngel, 01 February 2013 - 08:54 AM.

[Yankee77]

LaserAngel, on 01 February 2013 - 08:53 AM, said:

I was probably the guy hitting you with my Artemis LRMs on River City. Were your friends using PPCs and camping? Or in the water on Forest Colony.

I wouldn't know. By recently I mean 2 weeks ago, been using it since. If I'm direct firing my LRMs, then I have TAG on target, making my LRMs quite accurate, usually hitting the same location I'm striking with PPCs.

Since that switch my performance has improved significantly, as getting ECMed does not stop me from using my PPCs... and the focus on direct fire leads to frequent TAG locks and accurate LRMs.

If I could fit artemis I would do it, mind you, but the direct fire boost is more useful with ECM in its current state. Mind you, the new artemis formation might make it worth the tonnage.

Also, in this age of ECM I find that one no longer needs massive ammo bins for LRMs. 3 or 4 tons tend to be enough, when not running a strict LRM boat at least. But then again I think balanced mechs are more useful than LRM boats these days (Especially in 8-mans).

[verybad]

Looks cool, but I don't feel that Artemis missiles should be a priority at this time.

Balance,**** so that everything has a use.

NARCS, BAP, FLAMERS, Machine Guns, Command Pod (or whatever it's called), Ferro Fibrous Armor, All pretty useless right now.

Now I know some stuff is scheduled for Flamers and MGs. Give BAP and NARC a better role though, they chould be really cool if some time was spent to make them more interesting. NARC for instance needs to be able to deploy recon pods or something.

I could go on about the possibilities, there are a lot and everyone reading this has their own ideas.

SO yeah, the spiraling flightpath is kind of cool (though less realistic IMO than the current one) but I really don't see why you're spending time on stuff like that now.