379 replies to this topic

[Barrett Osis]

Yes please get rid of the groups. I mean what are we thinking? Who wants to group up have fun with other pilots? We are gamers. We don't have lives and friends.

WTF is this? Seriously? Come on. I would except not putting pilots in a match with premades if they have less than 50 games under thier belt, but to rid of them entirely is insane. Someone missed the whole "information warfare" idea this game is brought up on.

Maybe some of the "trolls" missed the point to your thread, but you come off pretty darn hostile.


My advice to everyone, is don't complain about premades, join one. There are a ton of groups recruiting newbs. We've done it many times and we will do it again.

Edited by Barrett Osis, 01 February 2013 - 11:14 AM.

[Mycrus]

Imperial X, on 01 February 2013 - 10:50 AM, said:

You realized the game is not fun for new players ? Your NOT new players. So how exactly can you even suggest that its not fun for them ? Dropping solo is not a new player experience. Unless you just started this game and are still in cadet bonus, not to mention the excitement of this being a brand new game to try out, you can't speak for new players. Lets have them speak for themselves, thanks.

the flood QQ i'm quitting threads from new players that bother post is obvious enough for an obvious troll like me...

Mercules, on 01 February 2013 - 10:52 AM, said:

I don't 4 man to pugstomp. I 4 man to hang out with 3 friends. We don't bring "Optimized" builds although we sometimes compliment each other in that if my friend wants to run one of his LRM Cats others of us will bring TAG or I'll jump in my mech with TAG and ECM.

yes, not all 4-mans are formed to stomp pugs...

but what will account for the big disparity of WLR between PUGs & Premades?

we have a lobby & comms via 3rd party albeit...

we are not better players than PUGs...

please try typing "Charlie Atlas in Echo 4, open Rear Torso" while PUGging.

I am basically saying what Garth is saying albeit with more troll for flair...

Garth Erlam, on 29 January 2013 - 08:10 AM, said:

The ELO in matchmaking phase 3 should help with to start - everyone being matched against similar skilled opponents will be a good start. Also, we'll keep adding to it as time goes on and we see what needs to be done/changed/added/etc. Also, while I do agree with you it's very sad when larger corps/clans will run 4 mans to intentionally beat up on newer players. It sucks, but maybe the fact we can see them doing it will change their mind, I dunno. People often talk a big game and then realise what it entails, and well...

On the other hand though, virtually every post about a 'loss' here claims it was against a premade - but when I check the logs, I find it wasn't (and if it was, it was a pair or friends or something.)

To sum though, I challenge those who do drop in 4mans to try solo dropping for awhile. See how the other side lives. Yes you'll RUN back to TS3 when you're done, sure, but I hope you also see why they complain about it. Being in a 4man doesn't guarantee a win, just like being a lone wolf doesn't guarantee you'll lose. However, a 4man guarantees that team DOES NOT have four new players, and makes it more likely the opposing teams will.

So if nothing else, maybe invite a new player into your 4man and show him the ropes. Keep rotating people through every week. I understand the vast majority of 4man groups are just doing it to play with their friends, but I think you also know, if in the back of your mind, you have an unfair advantage. So help the newbies out and show them the ropes.

EDIT: placing Garth's full post (bold emphasis mine)

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1811118

Edited by Mycrus, 01 February 2013 - 11:32 AM.

[Bguk]

Mycrus, on 01 February 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

I am basically saying what Garth is saying albeit with more troll for flair...

Not a challenge if it's something you've been doing all along. Anyone who hops into our channel in Mumble we educate them on MWO, answering all the questions we can. I solo drop about half the time. Even while on voice comms!!

Please also take Garth's whole post into account.

Edited by Bguk, 01 February 2013 - 11:23 AM.

[Mycrus]

Livebait, on 01 February 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

@Mycrus I don't give a rats behind how big your corp is. These posts are pure poison for a small fan base as is. I drop PUG & Premade. My end score does not change very much for both. Losses are more but that's to be expected BECAUSE I'M DROPPING ALONE. The net code was fixed THAT IS WHY some players got better and some got worse. No stop the endless wailing like old women.

i'm not bragging about size you dolt -- the point being is we aren't newbie PUGs QQing that PUGging is hard.

we are PREMADES that have realized that something is wrong.

[Mycrus]

Bguk, on 01 February 2013 - 11:22 AM, said:

Not a challenge if it's something you've been doing all along. Anyone who hops into our channel in Mumble we educate them on MWO, answering all the questions we can. I solo drop about half the time. Even while on voice comms!! Please also take Garth's whole post into account.

as do we... we take in all players... and we have a lot of players...

then we train them formally (we have training programs -- we are that grognards about it)... players get tested written & practical and instructors sign off on it...

like everybody else, i was a newbie before too you know...

EDIT: Added full Garth quote with link... happy now

Edited by Mycrus, 01 February 2013 - 11:34 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

I can give you the same answer as I gave Garth.
I do PUG drop almost every day.
I do bring new players to our group. That they sign up with us is a sign that they enjoyed winning and losing with us knuckleheads!

And technically he is wrong in his math too. By having a 4 man I make it so there are not 7 new players on my team, I can only have 3 other friends so there in fact can be 4 brand new players on my team. If MM is working as it should, then there should be a 4+4 team against me. Thus a perfect mix of experience, and familiarity.

[Opus]

[Livebait]

You lost the argument that is why you got personal. It's to be expected since your premise is flawed. ELO is coming and nothing will change. Collision is coming and nothing will change.

[fil5000]

Mycrus, on 01 February 2013 - 11:27 AM, said:

as do we... we take in all players... and we have a lot of players...

then we train them formally (we have training programs -- we are that grognards about it)... players get tested written & practical and instructors sign off on it...

like everybody else, i was a newbie before too you know...

You... You give people written tests? I don't... What?

[Joseph Mallan]

Opus, on 01 February 2013 - 11:29 AM, said:

Would have been better if it was Opus (the Penguin) pushing the button... or Bill the Cat!

fil5000, on 01 February 2013 - 11:32 AM, said:

You... You give people written tests? I don't... What?

yeah i know, We ask if yo like blowing up digital robot pics! Trick question since they are on a website trying to join guys blowing up digital robots.

[Mycrus]

fil5000, on 01 February 2013 - 11:32 AM, said:

You... You give people written tests? I don't... What?

Hi fil5000! -- yes we do, lengthy essay ones at that

[Carnivoris]

NERF TEAMWORK! Really, who wants to play with their friends? Ah, hell, who needs friends, anyway?

Seriously, are you so anemic that you don't want a challenge? You don't want to watch what's happening in a match and try to learn from it? You don't want to use the lessons you learn from groups and apply them to your own playstyle?

This is why I no longer care about puggers who cry about being puggers. You just want wins given to you. If you're too antisocial or anxious or otherwise averse to playing with other people, that's your problem. Why should the rest of us have to suffer because YOU are too damn lazy to group with people?

[b00zy]

sooo we shouldn't be able to play with our friends is what you are saying OP ?

Mycrus, on 01 February 2013 - 11:27 AM, said:

as do we... we take in all players... and we have a lot of players...

then we train them formally (we have training programs -- we are that grognards about it)... players get tested written & practical and instructors sign off on it...

like everybody else, i was a newbie before too you know...

EDIT: Added full Garth quote with link... happy now

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

written tests HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

how many swords are in your collection general neckbeard ?

[Mycrus]

OP & me are a part of a merc unit because we hate talking to people and we are anti-social turds...

In fact in our TS3 channel everybody is muted by default, anybody that text chats gets a permaban...

OF COURSE, we like playing with friends!

Must an obvious troll state the obvious?




Something is wrong with the current 4-man vs PUGs setup... the 8-man queue is bone dry... because of course teamwork is OP in a team game...

Yes, we know that Phase 3 MM and EEEELOOOOOW will supposedly save the day...

But until that bright shining day comes... i will still be a troll (and maybe even after that day arrives...)

b00zy, on 01 February 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:

sooo we shouldn't be able to play with our friends is what you are saying OP ?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

written tests HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

how many swords are in your collection general neckbeard ?

yup! because we noticed that for some reading is OP and writing is godmode... we accept most anybody, but we do still have our standards...

Edited by Mycrus, 01 February 2013 - 11:59 AM.

[Tuku]

If world of warcraft has not changed the so called "premade problem" by now mwo wont any time soon .

I pugged allot when I first started playing and I had more of a problem with the game starting and everyone running in different directions. I didn't have a problem with being stomped by a well organized team, because that happens in every game that allows premades ever in the history of gaming.

[Bguk]

Forst, we need some tacos.

[Joseph Mallan]

b00zy, on 01 February 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:

sooo we shouldn't be able to play with our friends is what you are saying OP ?



HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

written tests HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

how many swords are in your collection general neckbeard ?

14! including a Damascus steel Nodachi
Thanks for playing,
Non-neck beard.

[MischiefSC]

As a pug I really don't care about premades. It's not a big deal to me. I lose when they are on my side sometimes I beat them on the other side sometimes.

My biggest hope for Elo is to balance what other pugs are on my team. The best games I've played, the most enjoyable, have been when I've dropped with a team mostly full of vet puglies. I learn a LOT, they tend to have very well designed mechs (not boats, they don't pug well) and some brilliant tactics. Places to set up to snipe/stalk/spy from. Watching them move like a pack of hunting predators, cutting scouts and wanderers out from the pack and devouring them before boat-hunting.

Seriously. If Elo starts putting those guys into groups against premades you'll see a huge cry to see exactly what group the other side is dropping with, or cries of 'cheaters' and 'aimbots' when suddenly these people who were getting 2 or more kills every game and a 70% win rate suddenly are more like 0.75 and a 40% win rate.

The best premades will rise to the top and earn accolades accordingly. For those whos success is based on being very good at the tactics of taking advantage of a less skilled adversary for 70% of their games they're likely in for a surprise.

A rude, painful surprise.

[Mycrus]

MischiefSC, on 01 February 2013 - 12:07 PM, said:

Seriously. If Elo starts putting those guys into groups against premades you'll see a huge cry to see exactly what group the other side is dropping with, or cries of 'cheaters' and 'aimbots' when suddenly these people who were getting 2 or more kills every game and a 70% win rate suddenly are more like 0.75 and a 40% win rate.

exactly!

i thought i was a 3.82 kdr player, but i'm really not... i'm just average joe with barely a 1 kdr...

[MischiefSC]

Mycrus, on 01 February 2013 - 12:13 PM, said:

exactly!

i thought i was a 3.82 kdr player, but i'm really not... i'm just average joe with barely a 1 kdr...

My concern is going to shift now more towards how to help new players move up. It's hard to learn when you're only playing with people of like skill. The realities of gamer populations are that the majority of people will not join corps. They won't do it. Or teamspeak. various reasons, be it personal or professional.

So how do you help those people improve? That's where a lobby would be good. Let people go into a game lobby and choose their sides to drop with. This will let more experienced players drop in a controlled situation with newer players.

That and how about keeping separate stats for dropping with a group as opposed to dropping solo? Have it affect your Elo separately. This way you can work on these two very different skill sets separately.