452 replies to this topic

[Kousagi]

Tennex, on 12 February 2013 - 06:26 PM, said:

stealth armor requires ECM... for the 12 crit slots and 10 heat. it doesnt come free in TT... like it does in this game

It does, that boosts it to 14 slots required. And if you want the same great power of radar disruption as null sig, ya need a Angel ECM. So, if you really want to use logic, half of 14 slots is 7.... gasp, I think we have found something, That might just imply that 1 slot of null sig is used for the radar disruption, the other 6 are the heat system. Though Null sig still does not cost weight, where Guardian is 1.5 tons and Angel is 2 tons.

Just saying...

[Tennex]

Kousagi, on 12 February 2013 - 06:29 PM, said:

It does, that boosts it to 14 slots required. And if you want the same great power of radar disruption as null sig, ya need a Angel ECM. So, if you really want to use logic, half of 14 slots is 7.... gasp, I think we have found something, That might just imply that 1 slot of null sig is used for the radar disruption, the other 6 are the heat system. Though Null sig still does not cost weight, where Guardian is 1.5 tons and Angel is 2 tons.

Just saying...

and angel ECM costs 2 tons in this game how? or does it come for free just like stealth armor and null sig.

[Codejack]

Tennex, on 12 February 2013 - 06:26 PM, said:

stealth armor requires ECM to equip... for the 12 crit slots and 10 heat. it doesnt come free in TT... like it does in this game

everything you bring up destroys MWO's implementation of ECM.

"It is hard to get a man to understand a thing when his ABILITY TO BE A L33T PUGSTOMPER depends on his inability to understand it."

Edited by Codejack, 12 February 2013 - 06:33 PM.

[Kousagi]

Tennex, on 12 February 2013 - 06:32 PM, said:

and angel ECM costs 2 tons in this game how? or does it come for free just like stealth armor and null sig.

Not sure how you went from talking about TT rules to MWO... But at least you admit that ECM affects radar like Null sig.

Though I think your brain might be a bit fried...

[Tennex]

Kousagi, on 12 February 2013 - 06:35 PM, said:

Not sure how you went from talking about TT rules to MWO... But at least you admit that ECM affects radar like Null sig.

Though I think your brain might be a bit fried...

nah only time my brain gets fried is when i'm being pimped by surgeons

[DocBach]

Kousagi, on 12 February 2013 - 06:19 PM, said:

They are... since the crit slots are representing the modification to the heat sink system to hide the thermal image... but I mean, its not like the fluff text flat out says that or anything, cause you clearly know better.

"Extinct: 2790 (Inner Sphere)
Created by the first Star League, the null-signature system is an elaborate
series of passive and active electronic countermeasures and heat baffles
that combine to mask a BattleMech’s heat and electromagnetic signature.
Similar to the modern, Capellan-made stealth armor system that derives
from it, the null-signature system is somewhat more sophisticated, and does
not require the use of a separate ECM unit to attain its capabilities."

Yeah, pretty much Stealth armor was the more balanced version, which was why it was released for tournament level play whereas Null remained level 3 - they made it require more crits and the ECM to carry.

[Abivard]

So, out of thousands of players, only 200 feel ECM is bad.

It is safe in assuming everyone who hates ECM has responded to this thread.
It is safe to estimate only 5% of those who love ECM bothered to reply.

Consenus, Most players like ECM, most board trolls hate ecm.

[Boitameuh]

RVN 3-L

Unleash your skill

[Kharn Tehfury]

I think there should be two different types of ECM, personal ECM (for light mechs) and then the regular Guardian ECM for assault mechs, and i think this one should take up one more slot to compensate. that way the light mechs retain their sneakiness, and the assault mechs that are ECM-enabled would need to fit more with the mindset that they are going to be blanketing nearby people and should probably fit different weapons and such to fullfil that role to its maximum. by the role i mean if your blanketing your LRM boats, then you build LRM boat-ish. and if your blanketing a blitz then you stack some armor and build brawler-ish. that way we dont get an overdose of mechs that all have the same kind of ECM that can all do the same thing.

[Teralitha]

Abivard, on 12 February 2013 - 08:43 PM, said:

So, out of thousands of players, only 200 feel ECM is bad.

It is safe in assuming everyone who hates ECM has responded to this thread.
It is safe to estimate only 5% of those who love ECM bothered to reply.

Consenus, Most players like ECM, most board trolls hate ecm.

I think you miscounted slightly... Its about 200 players that like ecm out of the thousands that play and dont like it. Fail.

[Tincan Nightmare]

Kousagi, on 12 February 2013 - 08:06 AM, said:

You misunderstand something. Guidance does not mean lock on. There are tons of different guidance systems for missiles. MRM's are a oddity, and honestly who ever wrote them in to the game didn't know much about naming weapons... As Rockets are unguided, and missiles are guided. You can't have unguided missiles, because they are rockets...

Though, What guidance system standard LRM's use in TT can be argued since its never flat out stated what they use, we can tell what they don't use by the other ammo types. Though in MWO, how they act is different from TT. As the main reason that LRM's in TT are not hurt by ECM is their self contained guidance, meaning they get no outside help, and when other systems do give them outside help ( Artemis ) it gets jammed by ECM. Well it gets jammed so long as its a RF type of outside help, as Tag is a IR laser, it can't be jammed.

However!, LRM's in MWO get outside help from launch, since they can not track a target without the Mech itself having a lock. This means the Mech's targeting system is guiding the missiles, which means they do not have a self contained guidance system.

Ok I get your meaning now. At first I thought that to you TT LRM's were basically just rockets fired like mortars or artillery. And yes the way they work in MWO is definetely semi-guided (like the old Sparrow air-to-air missile) that requires the firing unit to maintain lock to direct the missile to the target. However I believe they should be basically fire and forget, more like the TT descriptions, or previous MW games as I'm pretty sure they worked like that in all the early titles. Items like Artemis, NARC, and TAG should just add a boost to their performance, but since they are communicating between the mech's targeting computer and the missiles, should be susceptible to the effects of ECM (except for TAG), making them revert to standard LRM's if the target is within a friendly ECM bubble. ECM should not block an LRM equipped mech with a clear line of sight to the target from firing on it, it would just lose any bonuses from items like Artemis. Of course they then have to balance LRM's, though they could have just left them like TT at 1 point of damage apiece, so that an LRM20 is like getting hit by a LBX20 (though we have to wait for the Clans to get to experience that dubious honor.) I

[Vassago Rain]

Abivard, on 12 February 2013 - 08:43 PM, said:

So, out of thousands of players, only 200 feel ECM is bad.

It is safe in assuming everyone who hates ECM has responded to this thread.
It is safe to estimate only 5% of those who love ECM bothered to reply.

Consenus, Most players like ECM, most board trolls hate ecm.

They want the glory days of boated LRMs that blow pubbie trial mechs to pieces back.

[Mack1]

Well this poll sums up exactly what I have been saying, ECM has made MWO worse, the customers have spoken with a landslide victory, now get it fixed please.

[Teralitha]

Vassago Rain, on 13 February 2013 - 12:30 AM, said:

They want the glory days of boated LRMs that blow pubbie trial mechs to pieces back.

Dude... everything blows pubbie trial mech to bits. Dont single out LRMs. LRMs were just fine balance wise prior to ECM. Now they are useless. And lets not forget that most trial mechs have LRMs..... so not only are trial mech users over heating constantly, but now half their weapons are useless with ECM on the field. Not a pleasant experience I am sure.

Edited by Teralitha, 13 February 2013 - 01:27 AM.

[Teralitha]

Vote counts are now -

213 enjoy having in the game ECM

413 do not enjoy having in the game ECM

uh oh... looks like the gap is widening...

More votes people!

[Praehotec8]

Tennex, on 12 February 2013 - 06:37 PM, said:

nah only time my brain gets fried is when i'm being pimped by surgeons

Are you MS3, 4, resident? You brought back all those *wonderful* memories of my internship...Glad those days are over.

On topic though, I think the biggest problem with ECM is the frustration it causes. One agile light can totally shut down an LRM support mech. Even with friendly assistance around, it can take some time in a PUG for said light be be destroyed, often leading to the LRM carrier to lose the chance to engage at range before being thrust into close range. If no friendly mechs are around, it can be quite difficult to evade or destroy a good light pilot's mech (especially as most LRM mechs carry only lasers as backup...I find ballistics easier to hit lights with)...but more importantly, you cannot ignore it to fire at other targets while moving to safety.

It's frustrating enough that I would be okay seeing LRM damage decreased (slightly...1.0 seems far too low...remember, the weapon should still be dangerous enough to be respected...at 1.7 LRMs were considered ignorable in a previous patch) if ECM was unable to totally shut them down at times. Remember, even your TAG won't work if you are under an enemy ECM umbrella.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Rat of the Legion Vega, on 01 February 2013 - 06:10 AM, said:

Yup this is holding true so far. Really even distribution.

Nice interpretation there

Quote

Yes I enjoy MWO a lot more with the ECM feature (105 votes [13.69%])
Yes, I enjoy MWO a bit more with the ECM feature (113 votes [14.73%])

vs

Quote

No, I enjoy MWO a bit less with the ECM feature (184 votes [23.99%])
No, I enjoy MWO a lot less with the ECM feature (235 votes [30.64%])

vs

Quote

I feel indifferent about the ECM feature (130 votes [16.95%])

so 28.42% yes 54.63% no with 16.95% indifferent is the same as 40/40/20 to you?
Looks more like 28% 55% 17% to me and thats a kinda heavy slew towards "no"

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 13 February 2013 - 03:45 AM.

[Badgerbanger]

Virtually twice as many people voted no as voted yes.

Therefore ECM has made the game worse.

No point arguing any more about ECM.

It's here to stay because the devs like it and they won't give a monkey's what the customer wants, until they stop paying.

[Codejack]

Abivard, on 12 February 2013 - 08:43 PM, said:

So, out of thousands of players, only 200 feel ECM is bad.

It is safe in assuming everyone who hates ECM has responded to this thread.
It is safe to estimate only 5% of those who love ECM bothered to reply.

Oh, so the poll doesn't give the results you wanted, which must mean that the poll is wrong, huh?

Do you remember what the anchor on Fox News asked Karl Rove the night of the presidential election when he insisted Ohio would go for Romney after they called it for Obama? "Is this just math you do, as a Republican, to make yourself feel better?"

So, is this just a rationalization that you do, as an ECM-dependent pilot, to make yourself feel better?

Guess what? Hundreds of people have quit playing because of ECM; they aren't here to vote. Many more have become disillusioned with PGI's lack of response to the issue and flat-out insulting comments in the threads about it, and so don't bother to come to the forums.

I can make the same argument that you did, only the other way, and suddenly ECM is the most hated thing in existence.

But I don't have data to support that. And neither do you.

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 13 February 2013 - 03:43 AM, said:

Nice interpretation there

vs

vs


so 28.42% yes 54.63% no with 16.95% indifferent is the same as 40/40/20 to you?
Looks more like 28% 55% 17% to me and thats a kinda heavy slew towards "no"

These guys have serious issues with math and anything else that disagrees with their opinions.

Edited by Codejack, 13 February 2013 - 05:22 AM.

[Twisted Power]

What I have realized is that one of the high ups or even Paul himself came up with the idea and likes it so they are trying to balance around it because the main guy(s) think it is just so awesome and won't let them fix it. ECM does not work this way in table top so somebody must have expanded on it. See below:

"GUYS!!!! I have a GREAT IDEA. So as you all know ECM like in the table top does not fix the LRM and SSRM problem we are having. So let us make ECM cloak mechs from target locks!!!!! Not just the mech carrying it mind you but the whole ******** team!!! Think Stealth Steiner lance." (Background) "Wow so cool!, Yea we love the idea of 8 mechs walking like ninjas!!! OMG ATLAS NINJAS?!?!""

Something like that ^

Edited by Twisted Power, 13 February 2013 - 06:36 AM.