452 replies to this topic

[Redmond Spiderhammer]

My opinion on ECM is that it does slightly too much(I'd like it to have minimal effect on any mech not withon its bubble), but I'm not that worried about it. I think they know it needs a nerf and they are debating exactly what that will look like. The big issue is the interaction between ECM and lock on weapons. Neither streaks no LRMs are implemented the way I would like to see, but having ECM completely negate these systems was poor design on top of poor design
Over-all I have to say that ECM has much less of a negative impact on gameplay than streaks, except when it is together with streaks in the same mech.

[StalaggtIKE]

MaddMaxx, on 01 February 2013 - 10:08 AM, said:

Well, then you're in luck. There is no "cloaking" in MWO, never was. A "cloak" by definition, would allow an enemy Mech to stand within your LoS and not be visible. Word is, doing that in MWO is a very bad idea...

Question: Quick, what's the fastest way to bring down an already damaged mech?

....


Times up!
Answer: It's aiming at those damaged parts. ECM hides the paperdoll that shows you this.




Question: Quick, what's the quickest way to find out your enemy's load out?

....


Times up!
Answer: It's selecting the enemy as a target with your radar. ECM also removes this.

You are correct, there is no cloaking of mechs in this game, however intel is being cloaked.

[Solis Obscuri]

Apoc1138, on 01 February 2013 - 06:05 AM, said:

this poll will end up the same as all the other ECM threads, pretty much 40/40 pro/anti with about 20% who don't really care

You mean just like all the other ones that ended with about 30% pro, 60% anti, and 10% who don't care?

[arghmace]

Koningswulf, on 01 February 2013 - 09:32 AM, said:

Ohh for heavens sake, have we not had enough of this OP whinning of the EMC now?

Obviously not, since PGI still refuses to come to their senses and fix this disaster.

[Nightcrept]

Apoc1138, on 01 February 2013 - 06:05 AM, said:

this poll will end up the same as all the other ECM threads, pretty much 40/40 pro/anti with about 20% who don't really care

http://mwomercs.com/...m-balance-poll/

[Dreepa]

I feel that ECM is also not in the business interest of the developer/publisher.

The learning curve is already very steep, with nothing really being explained.

In order to have a successfull F2P it must be fun, involving and understandable. From the start on.

ECM is just another mechanic that a new player will be frustrated about, as skills like knowing the map inside out, knowing typical routes and guessing what route the enemies are taking and where they are hiding are very advantageous.

Those players that quit due to lack of understanding, might have gotten to the point where they actually enjoy the game, and turn to paying players (conversion rate).

While I think ECM is a cool feature in its own (with further improvements, its currently very strong), for a F2P game with no staging or tutorial like progression of the availability of player abilities, it is (imho) effectively reducing revenue for the developer/publisher.

Edited by Dreepa, 01 February 2013 - 05:50 PM.

[Umbra8]

Apoc1138, on 01 February 2013 - 06:05 AM, said:

this poll will end up the same as all the other ECM threads, pretty much 40/40 pro/anti with about 20% who don't really care

Uh...

http://mwomercs.com/...-communication/

No. It wont end up like the fantasy poll you had in your head. It'll end up like every other one I've seen, with most people still angry about its implementation/function or how PGI has chosen to communicate their intentions to the community.

[DocBach]

http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1

Slicing ECM's abilities into modules like they did to Beagle, as modules are said by the devs to be the high end game content, would do a lot for the balance (especially as most of the balance we're seeing implemented against ECM comes in module form), as well as for generation of revenue of PGI. Not only would it limit the proliferation of the higher, more difficult to counter content that comes with ECM, the fact that it costs GXP gives it great potential for people to spend MC on converting XP to unlock the modules. Win-win for everyone.

Edited by DocBach, 01 February 2013 - 06:13 PM.

[Death Mallet]

Everyone has forgotten how ridiculous LRMs were before ECM. I'm not a fan of the way ECM has been implemented, but its a lot better than LRM Storm online.

I didn't play that game.

[DocBach]

Death Mallet, on 01 February 2013 - 07:34 PM, said:

Everyone has forgotten how ridiculous LRMs were before ECM. I'm not a fan of the way ECM has been implemented, but its a lot better than LRM Storm online.

I didn't play that game.

LRM's need to be fixed in their own right, not with the implementation of an even more broken system.

[Raidyr]

Enough has been said on ECM to fill several tomes. Without going into details or offering my drop of feedback in the endless ocean that comprises the entirety of these boards, I'd like to simply say that I think the game would play much better of ECM were simply removed from existence, atleast it's current iteration. It was a good try and had some neat ideas in regards to teamwork and adding *some* complexity to fighting but overall has been a disaster for mech and match balance.

Edited by Raidyr, 01 February 2013 - 07:59 PM.

[Red squirrel]

Apoc1138, on 01 February 2013 - 06:05 AM, said:

this poll will end up the same as all the other ECM threads, pretty much 40/40 pro/anti with about 20% who don't really care

Then take a second look.

For me the big problem is the cheesiness of those SSRM ECM lights.
I loved mechs like the Raven, but dont play them anymore.

Also the fact that nobody in his right mind uses a RVN-2X is a good example how ECM affected areas of the game it is not supposed to affect.

Edited by Red squirrel, 01 February 2013 - 09:12 PM.

[Ryvucz]

I think an option to add would be -

- I enjoy MWO more, now that it doesn't make up 100% of all mechs in a match.

[jakucha]

I don't enjoy the game less, I don't use ECM and can do quite well in a match, but I feel it could be tweaked to be less powerful nonetheless.

[Sudden Reversal]

ECM has significantly reduced the fun factor for PUG drops, which I play exclusively.

Firstly, it drastically reduces the amount of information available in the field, hence the amount of informed decisions being able to make during combat.

This serves to be a much lesser experience, reduced to huddling as a group if you don't carry ECM yourself.
Previously I could have a mental map of possible projected enemy locations based on my own and team members radar data. Now it is just a random mess of homogeneous clumping, with a smattering of unhittable ECM lights running free.

Secondly it makes the game visually dull.

Due to the hard limit of 4X zoom and lack of targeting capability with enemy mechs often being under ECM bubble, the only recourse to have any idea of enemy movement at long (+800m) ranges is using thermal. Thermal vision is ugly to say the least and using it for distance spotting is a questionable when considering design intent.

Thirdly distinguishing friend from foe is problematic.

Since ECM, I now find myself hesitating to fire on mechs due to lack or target data identifying them as friend or foe, be they shutdown or otherwise. Disrupted enemy data is one thing but non existent data on team mates, either in on map or HUD is another entirely.

ECM added nothing positive for the PUG player I'm afraid, certainly not the way it has been interpreted and implemented so far.

The odd ECM free game on both sides I have had the good fortune to play recently has been extremely satisfying, I dare say for all involved.

[Ursh]

It's recently become LRM storm online again, due to 4 man teams, especially the American ones, using a combination of LRM boats+ECM.

I say that as an American who plays from GMT+4, so I see a lot of European primetime during the work week, and American late night players on the weekends when I play in the morning.

[Zolaz]

What the real shame is that PGI wont recognize, comment or do anything about it.

[CECILOFS]

LRMs are my favourite weapon and its a lot of work to use them now. Its a big risk even putting them on my mech because even with Tag I may not be able to do any damage with them at all. LRMs are a core piece of Mechwarrior and have a right to exist, they shouldn't be made unuseable/only useable with a premade team with ECM.

The worst part for me is that it kills your radar. As a Pug player (can't afford headset atm, will prob group once I can) not knowing that a team mate is in trouble, or my team not knowing I am in trouble combined with not seeing allies on the minimap so you can run for help often makes for complete slaughters.

Personally, I don't think that Atlases should be able to stealth up on you like that. I think its fine for a 30t light mech to do that, but for a 100t Assault not so much. Keeping in mind that with TS these things would happen less, but when ppl don't have time to communicate via chat (while getting ganked by a flanking DDC) its a big problem.

Since ECM, the game changed from "LRMWarrior Online" to "Brawlfest Online". I get the impression that some people think indirect fire weapons shouldn't exist at all, but they do exist and should be just as situationally powerful as direct fire weapons. Fact is, spamming indirect fire LRMs from across the map was NEVER a good strategy. But having the threat of LRMs out there means you have to use tactics and cover, rather than jut charge straight into melee range.

Streaks + ECM + Lag Shield on lights making all other lights pointless also needs to be addressed.

Edited by CECILOFS, 02 February 2013 - 02:41 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

CECILOFS, on 02 February 2013 - 02:30 AM, said:

LRMs are my favourite weapon and its a lot of work to use them now. Its a big risk even putting them on my mech because even with Tag I may not be able to do any damage with them at all. LRMs are a core piece of Mechwarrior and have a right to exist, they shouldn't be made unuseable/only useable with a premade team with ECM.

The worst part for me is that it kills your radar. As a Pug player (can't afford headset atm, will prob group once I can) not knowing that a team mate is in trouble, or my team not knowing I am in trouble combined with not seeing allies on the minimap so you can run for help often makes for complete slaughters.

Personally, I don't think that Atlases should be able to stealth up on you like that. I think its fine for a 30t light mech to do that, but for a 100t Assault not so much. Keeping in mind that with TS these things would happen less, but when ppl don't have time to communicate via chat (while getting ganked by a flanking DDC) its a big problem.

I didn't notice any of these mythical ECM dampening fields when I ground out the LRM catapult a few days ago.

[Critical Fumble]

CECILOFS, on 02 February 2013 - 02:30 AM, said:

LRMs are my favourite weapon and its a lot of work to use them now. Its a big risk even putting them on my mech because even with Tag I may not be able to do any damage with them at all. LRMs are a core piece of Mechwarrior and have a right to exist, they shouldn't be made unuseable/only useable with a premade team with ECM.

Spoiler

The worst part for me is that it kills your radar. As a Pug player (can't afford headset atm, will prob group once I can) not knowing that a team mate is in trouble, or my team not knowing I am in trouble combined with not seeing allies on the minimap so you can run for help often makes for complete slaughters.
Personally, I don't think that Atlases should be able to stealth up on you like that. I think its fine for a 30t light mech to do that, but for a 100t Assault not so much. Keeping in mind that with TS these things would happen less, but when ppl don't have time to communicate via chat (while getting ganked by a flanking DDC) its a big problem.

That's another one of my issues with the way they made ECM directly effect weapons. You want to have an effect at long ranges without huge tonnage investments? Bring LRMs. You have some lose tonnage and want a high efficiency weapon? Bring SSRMs. But giving ECM lock denial means that you can't use LRMs or SSRMs without having a counter yourself or on your team.