Jump to content

The Ecm Feature: Aftermath


452 replies to this topic

Poll: The ECM Feature: Aftermath (1136 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you enjoy MWO more with the ECM feature?

  1. Yes I enjoy MWO a lot more with the ECM feature (168 votes [14.79%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.79%

  2. Yes, I enjoy MWO a bit more with the ECM feature (159 votes [14.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.00%

  3. I feel indifferent about the ECM feature (192 votes [16.90%])

    Percentage of vote: 16.90%

  4. No, I enjoy MWO a bit less with the ECM feature (269 votes [23.68%])

    Percentage of vote: 23.68%

  5. No, I enjoy MWO a lot less with the ECM feature (348 votes [30.63%])

    Percentage of vote: 30.63%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#401 Teralitha

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Survivor
  • Survivor
  • 3,188 posts

Posted 20 February 2013 - 06:30 PM

View PostDocBach, on 20 February 2013 - 06:24 PM, said:


"It's not scientific, 1,000 players isn't a good representation of the active player base, they're emotionally charged so people voted negatively, the questions were way biased and leading...."


I guess one could speculate that. Like... day one of ecm, they only mildly disliked it... a couple months later that dislike grew into intense hatred. Would that be what you call.. emotionally charged? Or is it from dev responses on the subject that got ppl emotionally charged.... Either way... the poll is valid.

The poll is unbiased and the results are fair. Almost 1000 players have made their opinions and feedback known.

Or would you prefer 2000 votes? How many total voters polled will it take to get noticed?

Edited by Teralitha, 20 February 2013 - 06:32 PM.


#402 Mechwarrior Buddah

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 13,459 posts
  • LocationUSA

Posted 20 February 2013 - 06:44 PM

View PostAlvor, on 18 February 2013 - 07:58 PM, said:

To summarize TAG should always work & Streaks/Regular LRMs should always work if using Canon BT/MW.

Number of (regular) missiles hit per salvo in current MWO is OP. On average only about 50%-60% should be hitting i.e. LRM20 average 12 missiles hit per salvo.

All this information was taken from http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Main_Page which is one of the best resources for Battletech information.

http://www.sarna.net...rdian_ECM_Suite

Guardian ECM Suite is typically used to shield allied units from such equipment by emitting a broad-band signal meant to confuse radar, infrared, ultraviolet, magscan and sonar sensors.[2] Affected systems include Artemis IV, C3 and C3i Computer networks, and Narc Missile Beacons. A Guardian can jam a Beagle Active Probe (or its Clan equivalent), but the probe-equipped unit will be aware of the jamming. The greatest drawback to the Guardian is its limited range 180 meters. Sensors can sometimes override this jamming, though by that point the enemy unit is already within visual range and can track the opposition with their own eyes.[2]

http://www.sarna.net...Angel_ECM_Suite

Angel ECM Suite is an experimental version of the Guardian ECM Suite operating on a broader spectrum and greatly advances ECM technology on the battlefield.
Game Rules
The Angel ECM Suite represents a great advance in ECM technology from the standard Guardian model. Angel suite completely blocks the following systems on enemy units: Artemis IV,Artemis V, Beagle Active Probes, Bloodhound Active Probes and their Clan equivalents, C3 Master Computers and C3 Slaves, Streak Missile Launchers and Narc missile beacons. Streak missiles may be fired at units affected by the device, but they function as standard missiles.
When using ECCM rules, the Angel ECM Suite counts as two ECM/ECCM units (depending on how it is set) for the purposes of determining the ratio of ECM to ECCM in a given area.

http://www.sarna.net...cquisition_Gear

Target Acquisition Gear (TAG) is an advanced targeting device for use by artillery spotters. The TAG unit works by firing an infrared laser beam to designate the target and transmits that data via a tight-beam laser communication system to the guidance systems of friendly "smart" bombs and missiles. TAG is compatible with systems such as Arrow IV Homing Missiles or LRM munitions.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Streak_SRM

Streak Missile Launcher Unlike a standard SRM whose shotgun effect may result in some misses and some hits, Streak guidance gives the lighter launchers the effective average firepower of the heavier and more wasteful SRM systems, but with considerably less variation in damage effects. The only disadvantages are that Streak launchers are incompatible with other missile target acquisition technologies such as the Artemis IV FCS and Narc Missile Beacon, their specialized ammunition is much more expensive, and some users are willing to accept partial hits rather than not be able to fire on demand.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/LRM

Long Range Missiles are designed to engage the enemy at great distances at the expense of damage dealt. Adapted towards the profusion of electronic jamming on the battlefield and the effectiveness of current armor designs, these missiles are capable of indirect fire and disperse over a smaller area than Short Range Missiles. Inner Sphere LRM launchers achieve this range by firing at a ballistic launch angle, making them less accurate at close range. Clan LRM launchers do not suffer from this effect, in addition to being smaller and more compact, thanks to their technological advantage. LRMs are highly upgradable, able to fire a variety of warheads and benefit from devices such as Artemis IV FCS.[1]

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/CBT_Tables

Number of Missiles Hit Table
Die Roll (2D6) Number of Missiles Fired
2 3 4 5 6 9 10 12 15 20
2 1 1 1 1 2 3 3 4 5 6
3 1 1 2 2 2 3 3 4 5 6
4 1 1 2 2 3 4 4 5 6 9
5 1 2 2 3 3 5 6 8 9 12
6 1 2 2 3 4 5 6 8 9 12
7 1 2 3 3 4 5 6 8 9 12
8 2 2 3 3 4 5 6 8 9 12
9 2 2 3 4 5 7 8 10 12 16
[u]10[/u] 2 3 3 4 5 7 8 10 12 16
[u]11[/u] 2 3 4 5 6 9 10 12 15 20
[u]12[/u] 2 3 4 5 6 9 10 12 15 20


this

View PostTeralitha, on 20 February 2013 - 06:30 PM, said:


I guess one could speculate that. Like... day one of ecm, they only mildly disliked it... a couple months later that dislike grew into intense hatred. Would that be what you call.. emotionally charged? Or is it from dev responses on the subject that got ppl emotionally charged.... Either way... the poll is valid.

The poll is unbiased and the results are fair. Almost 1000 players have made their opinions and feedback known.

Or would you prefer 2000 votes? How many total voters polled will it take to get noticed?


those polls tend to get "accidentally broken" like the 3rd person view poll that had 5k no replies when that happened to it

View PostTeralitha, on 20 February 2013 - 06:22 PM, said:

only 18 more votes til we hit 1000, the biggest poll in MWO history,....


and no... the 3rd person view one had 5k before it was broken. The new poll already has near to a thousand as is:
  • This is a BAD idea, as it will break the game, so, NO. (704 votes [85.54%])
  • This is a GOOD Idea, let us have our 3rd person views, so YES. (67 votes [8.14%])
  • Do not care or as of yet undecided. (52 votes [6.32%])

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 20 February 2013 - 06:44 PM.


#403 Teralitha

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Survivor
  • Survivor
  • 3,188 posts

Posted 21 February 2013 - 12:44 AM

very close now... only 8 more votes to break 1000


Lets see..

Out of 992 voters -
285 of them like ECM
540 do not like ECM

I see alot of good and logical and fundamental reasons why the majority dont like ECM in this topic, and many other topics...

But there are scant few reasonable posts(IF ANY) addressing why certain players like the ECM feature... apart from typical trolling posts like... L2P or learn to adapt. why is that? Where are the players that can logically and fundamentally explain why ECM is good for the game? Just how is ECM better for the enjoyment of the game? Where are you?

Devs call ECM haters a vocal minority.... well... I hate to burst your bubble.. but it seems to me that ECM lovers are the real minority, and they are pretty silent.

The ECM haters are the majority, and yes they are vocal, and why? because they are tired of getting the brush off from devs. PGI every time you ignore a large vocal majority of your testers you get that much closer to making a game that fails. they are trying to tell you there is a real problem.

Edited by Teralitha, 21 February 2013 - 01:01 AM.


#404 jakucha

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Knight Errant
  • 2,413 posts

Posted 21 February 2013 - 12:49 AM

After math I usually rub my peepee.

Edited by jakucha, 21 February 2013 - 12:50 AM.


#405 Larth

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 193 posts
  • LocationNorth Carolina

Posted 21 February 2013 - 01:04 AM

Well for the most part ECM works as it did in the tabletop game. The only two major things I can see to change it are not to ECM but to Indirect Fire and Streak mechanics. ECM and AMS can toggle modes. I could see giving every mech an Indirect Fire Mode toggle...if there is a mech "spotted" then they could lock on Maybe it takes twice as long for a lock or a modifier is changed meaning a higher chance of fewer missiles actually finding their mark. However, it would give LRM boats the ability to still rain LRM fire when there is a spotter. As it is right now, spotting acts like we are all running C3 systems, which perhaps could be implemented later (giving our current info that we get right now).

As for the Streaks...well just give them a toggle to turn on dumb fire mode. Point and shoot.

Size of the ECM bubble, well I have no idea how big it is. However, if the bubble will disrupt any signal going through it, even if said bubble is neither near the source of the signal or it's destination. They are kinda like blackholes and signals are like ships plotting out astrogation routes....don't want to fly too close to a blackhole, even when hyperjumping.

Does an enemy mech with ECM annoy me? Hell yeah! But that's the job of ECM.

#406 Sirous

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Determined
  • The Determined
  • 368 posts
  • LocationRochester, NY

Posted 21 February 2013 - 01:12 AM

View PostTeralitha, on 21 February 2013 - 12:44 AM, said:

very close now... only 8 more votes to break 1000


Lets see..

Out of 992 voters -
285 of them like ECM
540 do not like ECM

I see alot of good and logical and fundamental reasons why the majority dont like ECM in this topic, and many other topics...

But there are scant few reasonable posts(IF ANY) addressing why certain players like the ECM feature... apart from typical trolling posts like... L2P or learn to adapt. why is that? Where are the players that can logically and fundamentally explain why ECM is good for the game? Just how is ECM better for the enjoyment of the game? Where are you?

Devs call ECM haters a vocal minority.... well... I hate to burst your bubble.. but it seems to me that ECM lovers are the real minority, and they are pretty silent.

The ECM haters are the majority, and yes they are vocal, and why? because they are tired of getting the brush off from devs. PGI every time you ignore a large vocal majority of your testers you get that much closer to making a game that fails. they are trying to tell you there is a real problem.


Like it or hate, you have to agree that it definitely did its job in lowering or attempting to lower the amount of Mechs, spamming nothing but missiles. Streakapults are thing of the past and that one thing alone more than makes up for anything else. Yes Splatcats are here, but though they are just as dangerous, they aren't guaranteed to hit every time.

Also there are enough counters to ECM, Smart play and awareness being the top two, that noone really talks about. People just want to stop thinking and have the computer pick up where the enemy mechs are. Not moving with a purpose, moving in small packs, using a quick chat communication to spell out where the enemy is. Using Knowledge of the maps and awareness that if they are not in a certain spot, or where you expected to see them, hey they must have gone through the tunnel, down the other ridgeline, all in the lower/upper city. We should adapt. This is a team game.

Though ECM does need tweaks so it is not as powerful and it is backward in how I expected it to work. I have to say that I am having a lot more fun with it in the game. I stopped playing because of the streakapults.

#407 DocBach

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 4,828 posts
  • LocationSouthern Oregon

Posted 21 February 2013 - 07:39 AM

1001 votes... still, turned out just like I thought. Way more people like ECM because it adds skill to the game and takes away those nooblets missiles that kept killing me when I'd stand in the open to use my skill based weapons. I hate noobs like that, wish they'd learn to play.

Real life mode: I still see missile boats. Now missile boats just flash you with TAG a whole bunch of times before spamming you. ECM didn't fix missile boating, it just created an arms race to see who can pack whatever counters they can to beat out the other team's ECM so you can use the equipment ECM denies. It's not a strategy, it's not a mechanic, it's "bring more of it than the enemy."

#408 Critical Fumble

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Knight Errant
  • 810 posts

Posted 21 February 2013 - 07:48 AM

View PostDocBach, on 21 February 2013 - 07:39 AM, said:

1001 votes... still, turned out just like I thought. Way more people like ECM because it adds skill to the game and takes away those nooblets missiles that kept killing me when I'd stand in the open to use my skill based weapons. I hate noobs like that, wish they'd learn to play.

Real life mode: I still see missile boats. Now missile boats just flash you with TAG a whole bunch of times before spamming you. ECM didn't fix missile boating, it just created an arms race to see who can pack whatever counters they can to beat out the other team's ECM so you can use the equipment ECM denies. It's not a strategy, it's not a mechanic, it's "bring more of it than the enemy."

Its a trap card pulled directly from a CCG.

I've always disliked the absoluteness of ECM-ECCM-TAG mechanic. It has far too much of a pendulum effect as far as I'm concerned.

#409 Iacov

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Hammer
  • The Hammer
  • 668 posts
  • LocationAustria

Posted 21 February 2013 - 08:11 AM

ecm can be annoying...but as i pilot a k2 and cn9s mostly i don't really care...
as long as ecm or something similar doesn't affect IFF...

#410 DocBach

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 4,828 posts
  • LocationSouthern Oregon

Posted 21 February 2013 - 08:17 AM

View PostIacov, on 21 February 2013 - 08:11 AM, said:

ecm can be annoying...but as i pilot a k2 and cn9s mostly i don't really care...
as long as ecm or something similar doesn't affect IFF...


is this sarcasm? because ECM does affect IFF.

#411 Teralitha

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Survivor
  • Survivor
  • 3,188 posts

Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:34 AM

When you played table top, you could see every peice on the board regardless of obstacles or tech, so you were still able to use strategy to counter and manuever like you would on a chess board. In MWO you cant see all the mechs on the field due to obstacles and ECM. ECM should not be like it was in TT because of this.

Before ECM, teams relied on their teammates for enemy target locations and would use that information to coordinate as a team. ECM has nerfed teamplay and forces players to act as individuals in a team game. Or it forces blob formations and brawling only fights, and the iff disruption can cause friendly fire. ECM destroys team play. Its supposed to, I know this, but its not good for the game. The majority of the players are not enjoying this. Who knows how many have stopped playing because of ECM and are never coming back.

Edited by Teralitha, 21 February 2013 - 10:37 AM.


#412 DocBach

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 4,828 posts
  • LocationSouthern Oregon

Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:48 AM

View PostTeralitha, on 21 February 2013 - 10:34 AM, said:

When you played table top, you could see every peice on the board regardless of obstacles or tech, so you were still able to use strategy to counter and manuever like you would on a chess board. In MWO you cant see all the mechs on the field due to obstacles and ECM. ECM should not be like it was in TT because of this.

Before ECM, teams relied on their teammates for enemy target locations and would use that information to coordinate as a team. ECM has nerfed teamplay and forces players to act as individuals in a team game. Or it forces blob formations and brawling only fights, and the iff disruption can cause friendly fire. ECM destroys team play. Its supposed to, I know this, but its not good for the game. The majority of the players are not enjoying this. Who knows how many have stopped playing because of ECM and are never coming back.


Actually, there were plenty of rules sets like Doubleblind that made it so you couldn't see where the enemy was unless your unit spotted it with line of sight. ECM functioned in that game mode by making it harder for sensors to find the ECM 'Mech if the spotting unit was inside the ECM bubble as well. ECM could also shroud information on the 'Mech such as damage readout or loadout, if the spotting pilot failed a sensor check.

Second point though, is pretty spot on. ECM has homogenized gameplay so much its become pretty sterile.

#413 ICEFANG13

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Elite Founder
  • Elite Founder
  • 1,718 posts

Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:58 AM

This is clear to me now. We need to put 3rd person in, because a majority of people hate it! Do what the forums majority hates, because they are always whining yes!

ECM needs serious buffs, mechs that look at ECM mechs need to explode after a 1 second delay, true stealth armor.

#414 Teralitha

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Survivor
  • Survivor
  • 3,188 posts

Posted 21 February 2013 - 01:02 PM

View PostICEFANG13, on 21 February 2013 - 10:58 AM, said:

This is clear to me now. We need to put 3rd person in, because a majority of people hate it! Do what the forums majority hates, because they are always whining yes!

ECM needs serious buffs, mechs that look at ECM mechs need to explode after a 1 second delay, true stealth armor.


Oh yea, lets try reverse psycology.... that will work.

#415 ICEFANG13

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Elite Founder
  • Elite Founder
  • 1,718 posts

Posted 21 February 2013 - 01:09 PM

PPCs may effect ECM, but that doesn't mean ECM is balanced to its weight and slot, and people don't bring PPCs to counter ECM, they bring it to kill other mechs.

#416 Abivard

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Shredder
  • 1,935 posts
  • LocationFree Rasalhague Republic

Posted 21 February 2013 - 04:54 PM

I wonder how many votes are from brand new forum accounts?

So many anti ecm votes, so few anti ecm posters.

#417 DocBach

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 4,828 posts
  • LocationSouthern Oregon

Posted 21 February 2013 - 04:59 PM

View PostAbivard, on 21 February 2013 - 04:54 PM, said:

I wonder how many votes are from brand new forum accounts?

So many anti ecm votes, so few anti ecm posters.


Ah, of course. Must be a conspiracy of the "vocal minority."

#418 ICEFANG13

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Elite Founder
  • Elite Founder
  • 1,718 posts

Posted 21 February 2013 - 05:08 PM

ECM is fine, this poll proves people like it!

#419 Abivard

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Shredder
  • 1,935 posts
  • LocationFree Rasalhague Republic

Posted 21 February 2013 - 05:29 PM

this page, 11 posters, 19 posts,
8 posters posted once each, of those 1 was anti ecm, 3 where trolls with no clear statement either way, 3 proECM, one I don't care
that leaves 3 posters with 11 posts between them, all anti-ecm.

lets total, 4 anti ecm, 3 troll, 3 pro 1 doesn't care.

Unhappy campers are very vocal in their discontent, happy campers are having to much fun to bother coming to complain when they could be playing. Trolls are Trolls.

#420 DocBach

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 4,828 posts
  • LocationSouthern Oregon

Posted 21 February 2013 - 05:30 PM

Are you counting yourself as one of the trolls? Because most of the discussion here was pretty civil until you came here pointing fingers.





9 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 9 guests, 0 anonymous users