452 replies to this topic

[Tennex]

Fitzbattleaxe, on 14 February 2013 - 09:14 PM, said:

But ECM actually makes a difference in a pug match. If you have a team, you're more likely to be using voice communication, which negates many of the problems with ECM.

so if it doen't effect teamplay. is completely overpowered in Pugstomps. unfair to new players, and doesn't make sense in value per tonnage. why hasn't it been nerfed.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

I just do not understand how someone who works for PGI can just come in and look at a poll and dismiss it entirely with the amount of people voting on it.

I understand that not everyone who plays is on the forums, but here's the thing, when people do polling they always ask a group of people and extrapolate that information to make an informed decision.

If you look at this poll, there is a very large group of players who do not enjoy ECM. It would seem to me that if PGI is in the market of making a game that is making as much money as possible, while being viable to the largest amount of players possible. You would take a look at adjusting ECM.

EDIT: And no I don't mean crap like releasing modules that are supposed to effect ECM but don't, or adding an effect to PPC's to negate ECM for 5 seconds, or any of that crap. I mean adjusting ECM itself.

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 15 February 2013 - 12:17 PM.

[Abivard]

So funny but yet so sad.

I see a total lack of reading comprehension among so many posters.
Trolls ''like this' on posts that are directed against their actions, refute their premises and point out their rumor-mongering doesn't help anything.

The constant whine from the 'EASY BUTTON' crowd, the majority of which seem to have founders tags. That equates to me players who are afraid of change, high maintenance, prima donna dinosaurs who want to rest on their laurels in an unfinished game.

If this game dumbs down to the least common denominator like so many board trolls want it will perish.
Stay in your tiny enclosed sandbox. After reading these threads I now think of ECM as a 'Culling' mechanism!

[StalaggtIKE]

Abivard, on 15 February 2013 - 12:29 PM, said:

So funny but yet so sad.

I see a total lack of reading comprehension among so many posters.
Trolls ''like this' on posts that are directed against their actions, refute their premises and point out their rumor-mongering doesn't help anything.

The constant whine from the 'EASY BUTTON' crowd, the majority of which seem to have founders tags. That equates to me players who are afraid of change, high maintenance, prima donna dinosaurs who want to rest on their laurels in an unfinished game.

If this game dumbs down to the least common denominator like so many board trolls want it will perish.
Stay in your tiny enclosed sandbox. After reading these threads I now think of ECM as a 'Culling' mechanism!

Lol. ECM is that easy button. It's the only non-mandatory thing that gives advantages just for equipping it. I don't even have to press a button. Now I can walk about in the open, direct los weapons being the only thing I need to worry about. Basically if I can aim faster than my enemy, I'm immune. That is until they dedicate man power to focus fire on me. On top of that I get to take my buddies with me for the same effect for free!

Just equipping ECM means I will have back up support, unless I do something extremely stupid. Game-after-game it's the same thing: At the start of match everyone looks around, sees me in my D-DC or RVN-3L and proceed to stick with me. Like I stated before, I have little to worry about until I am singled out and focused on. Having my whole team tag along with me makes it that much harder.

Those are the pros, now for the disadvantages.... None! Unless you count boredom from piloting the same mech over and over again a con. The only culling is of those lacking common sense.


Edit: Instead of going back and forth, I simply ask you to just join me. Why fight the harder fight? Why rely on teammates that may let you down? Why use strategies that may fail? Why deny your birthright? Join me, brothers. Join the ECM master race.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 15 February 2013 - 02:00 PM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

StalaggtIKE, on 15 February 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:

Lol. ECM is that easy button. It's the only non-mandatory thing that gives advantages just for equipping it. I don't even have to press a button. Now I can walk about in the open, direct los weapons being the only thing I need to worry about. Basically if I can aim faster than my enemy, I'm immune. That is until they dedicate man power to focus fire on me. On top of that I get to take my buddies with me for the same effect for free!

Just equipping ECM means I will have back up support, unless I do something extremely stupid. Game-after-game it's the same thing: At the start of match everyone looks around, sees me in my D-DC or RVN-3L and proceed to stick with me. Like I stated before, I have little to worry about until I am singled out and focused on. Having my whole team tag along with me makes it that much harder.

Those are the pros, now for the disadvantages.... None! Unless you count boredom from piloting the same mech over and over again a con. The only culling is of those lacking common sense.

This in a nut shell. Here is how PUG games go.

Person01: Plan?
Person02: Follow the ECM Atlas
Person01; 03; 04: OK!

It doesn't mean you win, but that showcases the effect of ECM.

You don't see that with ANYTHING else in the game.

If you really think ECM is fine, then we need to start upgrading every other piece of equipment in the game to be on par with it.

[MischiefSC]

StalaggtIKE, on 15 February 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:

Lol. ECM is that easy button. It's the only non-mandatory thing that gives advantages just for equipping it. I don't even have to press a button. Now I can walk about in the open, direct los weapons being the only thing I need to worry about. Basically if I can aim faster than my enemy, I'm immune. That is until they dedicate man power to focus fire on me. On top of that I get to take my buddies with me for the same effect for free!

Just equipping ECM means I will have back up support, unless I do something extremely stupid. Game-after-game it's the same thing: At the start of match everyone looks around, sees me in my D-DC or RVN-3L and proceed to stick with me. Like I stated before, I have little to worry about until I am singled out and focused on. Having my whole team tag along with me makes it that much harder.

Those are the pros, now for the disadvantages.... None! Unless you count boredom from piloting the same mech over and over again a con. The only culling is of those lacking common sense.

This isn't true at all!

Sometimes I have to press a button so I can use streaks and my opponent has ECM. Then, if someone shoots LRMs at me, I have to push it again!

Sometimes I have games where I have to push a button 2, maybe 3 or 4 times.

It requires much cunning and skill to use. It challenges me every time I play.

Now I have to go get something to wash the taste of sarcasm out of my mouth.

[Lootee]

Yeah good idea. Let's cull 60% of the players.

It'll work out great. While you're at it you can tell the Beatles they have no talent, come up with a new formula for Coke, tell Steven Spielberg ET can't have M&Ms and fire Steve Jobs from Apple too. Such business acumen is a recipe for success I tell you.

[Remliel]

I love ECM because it makes LRMboat kiddies angry that they have to use more sophisticated tactics than 'push button and kill target',You guys made ECM users the ravening, LRM-spiting ******** that we are. Now reap the consequences.

Now I'm going to get back in my 3L and top damage charts while personally murdering every LRM boat I see. Peace!

[StalaggtIKE]

Remliel, on 15 February 2013 - 02:47 PM, said:

I love ECM because it makes LRMboat kiddies angry that they have to use more sophisticated tactics than 'push button and kill target',You guys made ECM users the ravening, LRM-spiting ******** that we are. Now reap the consequences.

Now I'm going to get back in my 3L and top damage charts while personally murdering every LRM boat I see. Peace!

At least you're honest.

[ThePhil]

+2 internets for the OP for making a pole which is not biased. You may be the first on the MWO forums.

[Abivard]

the math skills displayed here are awesome to behold, almost as awesome as the reading skills.

A few posts above the claim is made 60% of players hate ECM, the poll at the top, skewed towards the hate ECM result to begin with show 29.92%. Somehow the poster manages to more than double this amount with who knows what l33t math skillz.

[StalaggtIKE]

Abivard, on 15 February 2013 - 06:26 PM, said:

the math skills displayed here are awesome to behold, almost as awesome as the reading skills.

A few posts above the claim is made 60% of players hate ECM, the poll at the top, skewed towards the hate ECM result to begin with show 29.92%. Somehow the poster manages to more than double this amount with who knows what l33t math skillz.

It's not ECM master race math skillz. That's for sure.

[Lucian Nostra]

PrestonCDawg, on 01 February 2013 - 05:57 AM, said:

It's great, it makes you diversify your load outs and makes you think. You can't just run a targeted missile boat without consequence. Also it makes people communicate and gives certain team mates roles on the battle field.

Yeah you diversify your loadouts into close range brawlers and run around without consequence...

[Teralitha]

StalaggtIKE, on 15 February 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:

I love how pictures are worth a thousand words.....

[IrrelevantFish]

Abivard, on 15 February 2013 - 12:29 PM, said:

The constant whine from the 'EASY BUTTON' crowd, the majority of which seem to have founders tags. That equates to me players who are afraid of change, high maintenance, prima donna dinosaurs who want to rest on their laurels in an unfinished game.

Maybe there are some of the "Nerf ECM" crowd that fit that description, but there are also many like myself that do not.

I do not think ECM should be removed, and I think it has great potential to add interest to the game. Even now, there are moments when the ECM vs. LRM battle adds spice and flavor to a match.

However, there are far too many moments when it adds boredom and/or frustration instead, and far too many times when I hear a teammate say "I should've taken my 3L" or "Would you please take your D-DC?"

Frankly, ECM is not contributing nearly as much to the enjoyability of the game as it could and should. It's not a game-breaker, but I believe it's broken enough that fixing it should be near the top of PGI's "to-do" list.

Having said that, accusing PGI of incompetence or expecting a quick fix is unfair, unreasonable, and unproductive. This is a beta and we are beta testers. Mistakes/missteps are to be expected, and assisting PGI in finding and fixing them is the price we pay for the privilege of playing this game prior to official release. Those unwilling to pay that price need to shut up and leave.

[Felix]

ECM makes the game ****, havent played more than a handful of games since its introduction, only people who are in favor of it cant do anything better than run straight at the enemy and fire at close range.

Thanks to ECM whenever someone asks about this game I warn them away as quickly as possible.

[StalaggtIKE]

IrrelevantFish, on 16 February 2013 - 06:08 AM, said:

Having said that, accusing PGI of incompetence or expecting a quick fix is unfair, unreasonable, and unproductive. This is a beta and we are beta testers. Mistakes/missteps are to be expected, and assisting PGI in finding and fixing them is the price we pay for the privilege of playing this game prior to official release. Those unwilling to pay that price need to shut up and leave.

I was with you up until the above statement. The thing is there has been a lot of waiting, and a ton of feedback. Search for "ECM" and bore yourself from all the posts. We are at fault for accusing PGI of incompetence? Perhaps not overall, but in their handling of ECM, yes! Poor communication and lack of empathy are the cause of these accusations.

ECM has been out since late November and was controversial before its release. Despite tons of feedback, there was no official response from PGI for about a month. The hot topic of ECM was completely ignored despite gaining over 200 likes on a couple of "Ask the Devs" question sessions. Only after a 3rd attempt of submitted ECM related question to "Ask the Devs," was there a response. It was announced that, "ECM is currently under review and will undergo minor tweaks along with additions to help counter/disrupt the ECM effects. We are prepping a Command Chair post with details soon." Next Friday it will be a month of waiting for this post. The only answers have been bandaids to cover up the problem, instead of actual fixes. Whenever silence is broken there is no consistency. They've said one thing here and another there. PGI, if it is your intent to keep ECM the way it currently is, tell us! Let me be mad at you now instead of dragging it out.

Some of the designers comments could be interpreted as down right antagonizing. Shortly after ECM was released, it proved unfavorable to some players. They voiced their opinions, to only be answered by Paul Inoye, with "[ECM] is working as intended" on PCGamer. Why not here? Just recently the response to all the ECM talk is to, "adapt to it, with battlefield tactics." This was posted on the No Guts No Galaxy podcast on the 12th of February. Or the post here. It's the kind of post you'd expect from a player to another to refute a statement, not a representative of a payed company. Everything boils down to point of view. From the point of view of someone concerned with the implementation of ECM, comments like those above are demoralizing. Fragmented statements like those above get posted around and are subject to being taken out of context. PGI, if a decision has been made, post your conclusion and reasoning here!

Read past the anger of these irrational posts and you will see that behind theses posts are fans of the BT/MW intellectual property. We've been waiting for around 10 years, or more, depending on who you ask, for a proper Mech Warrior game. The anger stems for passion of desire for MWO to succeed. If we simply wanted a direct copy of TT, we would have long gone to MW tactics. If we simply wanted sensless mech action, we would have gone to Hawken. We've realized that MWO has a lot of potential.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 16 February 2013 - 03:21 PM.

[Teralitha]

Still havent reach 1000 votes... cmon ppl!

[IrrelevantFish]

StalaggtIKE, on 16 February 2013 - 02:56 PM, said:

We are at fault for accusing PGI of incompetence? Perhaps not overall, but in their handling of ECM, yes! Poor communication and lack of empathy are the cause of these accusations.

They're a small company without a dedicated PR department, and peopled by real human beings with actual emotions who are probably just a mite frustrated with all the name-calling and melodrama they have to sort through on this forum. Can you blame them for reticence or snippiness?

StalaggtIKE, on 16 February 2013 - 02:56 PM, said:

The anger stems for passion of desire for MWO to succeed.

You've just made my point for me. Passion is the most powerful inhibitor of rationality. If you were a bit less passionate, maybe you'd realize that all the insults in the world won't make PGI work any faster/better (more likely, it will do the opposite), waiting a few more months is hardly onerous, and without sitting in on all the company meetings you don't have sufficient information with which to judge them.

So I repeat: if you can't say something nice or useful, don't say anything at all.

[Asmudius Heng]

IrrelevantFish, on 17 February 2013 - 03:41 PM, said:

So I repeat: if you can't say something nice or useful, don't say anything at all.

Lots of people have posted well thought out non inflammatory posts about ECM and have asked very nicely for better feedback from the devs.

Lots of people have also lost their s h i t about this as well.

As the above, very reasonable, posters have suggested. The issue is half about ECM but half about the lack of empathy from PGI for people who see serious issues with ECM and feel very disconnected from the beta process and what might be happening in the future.

While PGI reps might be very annoyed at the people who yell and scream, the majority of posters in this thread have put forth well reasoned, very polite suggestions and post about the entire issue.

We are keeping our cool and just want to get some feedback after a very long time of PGI being very, very quiet about this issue.