625 replies to this topic

[Sifright]

xRatas, on 11 February 2013 - 03:27 AM, said:

Let any fast mech boat SRM and it will cause complaints. Stalker with SRM can be avoided, but 80kph Cat can't. It just happens to be the best platform to deliever the most broken weapon to battle. (But like I said, easily handled so not that broken anyway.) Wait and see, if they dare to put 4+ missile hardpoints to trebuchet, we will have a new winner. Better yet, give us Dervish...

Nah because the trench bucket is going to be very lightly armoured for the damage it pumps out.

Unless the mech is going 150 kph with SRM6's i can't see it being to deadly.

Although if it does go 150 kph i've got my new mech because SRM bombing in that thing will be fun D:

[xRatas]

Sifright, on 11 February 2013 - 03:29 AM, said:

Nah because the trench bucket is going to be very lightly armoured for the damage it pumps out.

Unless the mech is going 150 kph with SRM6's i can't see it being to deadly.

Although if it does go 150 kph i've got my new mech because SRM bombing in that thing will be fun D:

Quick calculations would make me guess about 105-110kph when mastered. Considering my Dragon can survive quite a bit longer than my catapult under fire (107kph vs 75kph), I'd expect it will be rather efficient at bringing SRM to enemy.

Edited by xRatas, 11 February 2013 - 04:50 AM.

[Rat of the Legion Vega]

What is broken is not the A1. What is broken is short range missiles. Both streaks and regular dumbfire ones. Every mech that can pack SRMs (A1 Cat, Centurion, Hunch 4SP, Atlas, Awesome, Stalker) is packing as many in as possible right now, because the netcode improvement has made SRMs much easier to hit with yet they still have a silly damage buff over TT from the Beta days when they were hard to hit with. I have no problem racking up three times the damage in a mech with SRMs compared to another variant of the same mech (like the Jenner F or Hunchback P) that has only energy weapons.

What makes SRMs feel extra cheesy is they excel when the enemy runs right up and plants them in your face. This just seems to laugh in the face of an "aiming skill required" FPS. I will add the caveat that using SRMs in a light mech against another light moving at full speed does require a healthy amount of aiming skill - that's a different animal of an engagement.

What the A1 has shown throughout this Beta is the balance problems that persist with missiles of all types. After some trial and error, PGI finally hit the sweet spot of LRM damage, now they need to downgrade SSRM and SRM damage or lethality as well. Get them back to what they originally were SUPPOSED to be like in TT.


.

Edited by Rat of the Legion Vega, 11 February 2013 - 05:34 AM.

[Codejack]

Sifright, on 10 February 2013 - 06:03 PM, said:

maybe it's just that I can aim?

I know its a shock considering how terrible most pugs are at aiming. I swear to god some of these players couldn't hit the broadside of a barn whilst inside it.

You do understand that what you see and what your opponent see are often completely different, right?

Most of the time when you see people missing you, especially if they are trailing, is that you aren't where you appear to be on their screen.

[Dr Hieronymous Alloy]

I've put something like 300k experience into various short-range SRM-based catapult builds at this point. I'm kindof sick of them now because an experienced pilot will wreck your **** every time; you've got armor basically equivalent to a hunchback, your head hitbox is both huge and directly center-mass on your torso, and your ears are giant waving signal flags that say "shoot me here."

They're fun in four-mans but I don't like them in 8-mans at all because capable opponents can shut you down far too quickly.

Edited by Dr Hieronymous Alloy, 11 February 2013 - 06:22 AM.

[Sifright]

Dr Hieronymous Alloy, on 11 February 2013 - 06:21 AM, said:

I've put something like 300k experience into various short-range SRM-based catapult builds at this point. I'm kindof sick of them now because an experienced pilot will wreck your **** every time; you've got armor basically equivalent to a hunchback, your head hitbox is both huge and directly center-mass on your torso, and your ears are giant waving signal flags that say "shoot me here."

They're fun in four-mans but I don't like them in 8-mans at all because capable opponents can shut you down far too quickly.

I wish i drove a hunchback with 420 armour.

Why do all the people saying the A1 is fine show outrageous levels of ignorance and false knowledge?

Edited by Sifright, 11 February 2013 - 06:25 AM.

[DeadlyNerd]

Sifright, on 11 February 2013 - 06:22 AM, said:

I wish i drove a hunchback with 420 armour.

Why do all the people saying the A1 is fine show outrageous levels of ignorance and false knowledge?

Because. unlike some of us that own it, who admit to it being broken, they want to keep piloting a mech that can pretty much 2-3 shot anything from the front and 1-2 shot anything from the back.
That, or they're just rubbish in piloting it and don't know the meaning of the term "ambush".

Oh and yeah, most of the A1 pilots I see have their flaps open the whole time, thus lowering the armor of ears. A skilled pilot opens flaps only before encounters he knows he'll hit right away, and closes flaps right after he decides it's a good time to run and hide.

[Dr Hieronymous Alloy]

Sifright, on 11 February 2013 - 06:22 AM, said:

I wish i drove a hunchback with 420 armour.

Why do all the people saying the A1 is fine show outrageous levels of ignorance and false knowledge?

*sigh*.

Compare max armor loadouts:
http://mechromancer....m/?mech=HBK-4SP
http://mechromancer....m/?mech=CPLT-A1

You've got what works out to about one gauss rifle hit or so extra per body part. The head armor's exactly the same, the right and left torsos have about 10-15 more each depending. The problem, though, is that you can't really torso twist or use your arms to soak damage in an SRM boat Catapult, because that's where all your weapons are. On top of that you're visually a much larger target and a lot easier to hit, with a dramatically larger and easier to hit head hitbox, and you move at about the same speed. Net result is that you have about the same level of survivability.

Edited by Dr Hieronymous Alloy, 11 February 2013 - 06:37 AM.

[Sifright]

Dr Hieronymous Alloy, on 11 February 2013 - 06:35 AM, said:

*sigh*.

Compare max armor loadouts:
http://mechromancer....m/?mech=HBK-4SP
http://mechromancer....m/?mech=CPLT-A1

You've got what works out to about one gauss rifle hit or so extra per body part. The head armor's exactly the same, the right and left torsos have about 10-15 more each depending. The problem, though, is that you can't really torso twist or use your arms to soak damage in an SRM boat Catapult, because that's where all your weapons are. On top of that you're visually a much larger target and a lot easier to hit, and you move at about the same speed. Net result is that you have about the same level of survivability.

the same speed being 86.4 kph? Whilst fitting vastly more powerful weapons?

Whilst having jump jets to force your opponents to shoot your legs or just miss you entirely because most mechs cant aim up very well.

[Havyek]

Catapults on the whole aren't that hard to kill. Aim center mast and you can't help but hit their heads with half of your shots.

The trick is maintaining composure when you take the first alpha and try and ignore the brown stain in your pants.

IMO though, the Splatcats are such a PITA because they can:
1) Carry Jump Jets (that work now)
2) Run a max sized engine (almost 90 km/h), so don't say "run away from them" because unless you're in a light or very fast medium, you can't.
3) Torso twist to fire damn near behind themselves (almost 180 degrees).

This means that they can (usually) outrun you, outmaneuver you, escape you if they start taking more damage then they'd like, and shoot you if you do manage to get behind them.

They're one of those 'Mechs that die quickly and spectacularly from 400m out, but bring death and destruction from 100m, and are almost impossible to shake for anything under 40 tons.

Edited by BDU Havoc, 11 February 2013 - 06:44 AM.

[Dr Hieronymous Alloy]

Sifright, on 11 February 2013 - 06:37 AM, said:

the same speed being 86.4 kph? Whilst fitting vastly more powerful weapons?

Yeah, roughly the same -- the Hunchback can go a little faster if you max it out, something like 92.4 I think. And yes, the catapult fits much stronger weapons.

[Sifright]

BDU Havoc, on 11 February 2013 - 06:38 AM, said:

Catapults on the whole aren't that hard to kill. Aim center mast and you can't help but hit their heads with half of your shots.

The trick is maintaining composure when you take the first alpha and try and ignore the brown stain in your pants.

that first alpha is usually enough to punch an entire side torso off or kill you outright in most mechs.

Heavies usually get away with just losing a side torso.

Its only the atlas and such that can really do what your suggesting the rest of the mechs have lost half their weapons and there is a good chance ammo explosions will finish them off.

The number of atlases i've killed by hitting them from behind with a single salvo on their guass rifle torso section the guass rifle detonating and it blowing up their ammo is hilarious.

Edited by Sifright, 11 February 2013 - 06:41 AM.

[Havyek]

Sifright, on 11 February 2013 - 06:40 AM, said:

that first alpha is usually enough to punch an entire side torso off or kill you outright in most mechs.

Heavies usually get away with just losing a side torso.

Its only the atlas and such that can really do what your suggesting the rest of the mechs have lost half their weapons and there is a good chance ammo explosions will finish them off.

The number of atlases i've killed by hitting them from behind with a single salvo on their guass rifle torso section the guass rifle detonating and it blowing up their ammo is hilarious.

People should know by now that the Gauss explodes, and does tremendous internal damage.
CASE prevents this. Spending half a ton to save your *** is a half ton worth spending.

[Dr Hieronymous Alloy]

Sifright, on 11 February 2013 - 06:40 AM, said:

that first alpha is usually enough to punch an entire side torso off or kill you outright in most mechs.

Heavies usually get away with just losing a side torso.

Its only the atlas and such that can really do what your suggesting the rest of the mechs have lost half their weapons and there is a good chance ammo explosions will finish them off.

The number of atlases i've killed by hitting them from behind with a single salvo on their guass rifle torso section the guass rifle detonating and it blowing up their ammo is hilarious.

Yeah, if you catch an enemy mech from behind, alone, and it's standing still, and the pilot neglected to move some armor to the back, and didn't use CASE with their gauss, etc., it's pretty much dead. If they catch you in the open without cover and have good aim you're dead. That's the game though.

Just like a lot of other things in this game, SRM catapults are powerful if used correctly but have some glaring weaknesses that competent opponents can exploit.

Edited by Dr Hieronymous Alloy, 11 February 2013 - 06:50 AM.

[DeadlyNerd]

Dr Hieronymous Alloy, on 11 February 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

Yeah, if you catch an enemy mech from behind, alone, and it's standing still, and the pilot neglected to move some armor to the back, and didn't use CASE with their gauss, etc., it's pretty much dead. If they catch you in the open without cover and have good aim you're dead. That's the game though.

Just like a lot of other things in this game, SRM catapults are powerful if used correctly but have some glaring weaknesses that competent opponents can exploit.

They have no weaknesses if you use it "correctly" and that is not running solo at the enemy through the middle of forest colony.

[Karl Streiger]

BDU Havoc, on 11 February 2013 - 06:38 AM, said:

Catapults on the whole aren't that hard to kill. Aim center mast and you can't help but hit their heads with half of your shots.

exactly. I dunno if the devs did something with the patch on 5th februar. But suddenly i was again able to hit the head of the Catapult. So most Catapults are indeed easy to kill - Gauss Sniper - or LRM boats because they still think...a BattleMech is a tank on legs...what they don't realize BattleMechs are planes with legs

and the Splashpult i had last time on my six in my Catapract proved it right (I'm able to run nearly 85 kph and have jump jets in my Catapract but the only thing that would have helped me would have been a Immelmann - but my plane has legs so i wasn't able to do it.

However make it hard for them...you have a start screen now...you see how many heavy mechs you have. For every heavy mech on your side - there is a enemy A1 on the other.

Ask the team to stay together until you know that there is no A1.
Ask the team to help you to kill the A1...before he is able to kill anything.
What do you think how many A1 pilots will remain...when they got killed, and got killed and got killed.

Of course if you reallly really hate those A1...start shooting at them even if they are in your team (no not team kill them - just wait until their flaps are open - and then cut their ears)

[Sifright]

Dr Hieronymous Alloy, on 11 February 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

Yeah, if you catch an enemy mech from behind, alone, and it's standing still, and the pilot neglected to move some armor to the back, and didn't use CASE with their gauss, etc., it's pretty much dead. If they catch you in the open without cover and have good aim you're dead. That's the game though.

Just like a lot of other things in this game, SRM catapults are powerful if used correctly but have some glaring weaknesses that competent opponents can exploit.

.....

I don't need to catch enemy mechs alone. I can just wade into the middle of an active brawl JJ over an atlases head and pound him in the back.

You seem be operating under the idea that its possible to armour up enough to stop an A1 mech from knocking your internals to peice from behind. It isn't.

If you have a guass rifle in your side torso in an atlas I will jump over you and put 90 points into that one spot because it garuntees me you lose a whole side torso when the guass inevitably detonates.

I also find your comments hilarious because every one tells awesome pilots to armour the front more heavily because of how big they are. When they do that they die even faster to me because im always hitting them in the ***.

Catapult A1- Brown eye hunter.

[Dr Hieronymous Alloy]

DeadlyNerd, on 11 February 2013 - 06:56 AM, said:

They have no weaknesses if you use it "correctly" and that is not running solo at the enemy through the middle of forest colony.

****, I knew I was doing something wrong.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Interesting thread....funny how those with dissenting opinions are automatically labeled as ignorant or lacking knowledge by some on this forum.

I'm one of those that doesn't think the A-1 is imbalanced. It's extremely tough. I piloted it long enough to master it and now it gather's dust in my mechlab, so I feel I got a good feel for its strengths and weaknesses, but I don't enjoy playing it enough to keep at it.

I'm not alone in my vote either.....There are plenty who agree, the Mech is dangerous but not imbalanced. It's too one trick of a pony. I've been killed 3 times by A-1s that I can remember. I don't dread seeing them on the battlefield. I DO dread seeing them when I've lost SA and blundered into one or failed to see one hidden under ECM and decided to rush a DDC only find him escorted by an SRM boat.

Outside of that, I find the SRM loadout to be easily countered, even when they're pushing 80+ kph with speed tweak. They are extremely susceptible to countering via range and DF weapons, so I don't dread them at all really. They shine in the urban maps like river city where they can move under cover of ECM (the smart ones follow their DDC's like remorreh's -- if I spelled that right) and use buildings to cover their approaches, but outside of that, I don't consider them much more than salvage.

Good, dangerous mechs with their fair share of limitations doesn't make them broken. I think people see Mechs of this extreme because they confuse extremely dangerous as imbalancing, when the reality is, their limitations are just as glaring (and therefore balancing) as their advantages.

And don't get me started on a Streak heavy variant.

[RacerX]

Agreed. I'm sick of these "Let's nurf the Cat" polls. What will stop the 6 SRM Cat or any other SRM heavy, in your face, build is splash damage. If a mech is in your face and launchs all of it's SRMs point blank then there should splash damage back to the attacker. It's stupid there isn't. Where is all that concusive energy and shrapnel going? If it doesn't tear a hole through the target then some of that is coming back towards the atacker.

I think splash damage will do wonders to force the SRM boat, whatever mech that may be, to keep its distance and end the one shot insta-kill scenario.