625 replies to this topic

[Dimento Graven]

LaserAngel, on 04 February 2013 - 01:21 PM, said:

Scouting is a very weak role right now with maps being 2-4 km at most. Anyone with BAP + Sensor modules can spot the enemy team right out of their base. That's 1,300 m of spotting right there. On top of Jump Jets and thermal vision if you don't want to waste tonnage or grind GXP/Bills for those modules.

Spotting? Get a TAG.

The point was, that not EVERY role can the Cat do better than every other 'mech.

And yeah, if TAG was "the answer" to good spotting, LRMs would be much higher up on my own list of weapon rankings. As it is, it takes skill and focus to keep a TAG on ONE 'mech for the duration the LRM carriers rain on it.

Unlike other heavy 'mechs the Cat has very exposed arms making it very easy and very quickly 'disarmed'. If a team responds in a coordinated fashion, which quite a few of them do, any Cat showing up on the battlefield will be the recipient of focused fire from several 'mechs and very quickly be dead.

Even PUG groups are starting to learn that fact.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 04 February 2013 - 01:37 PM.

[Fenix0742]

Dimento Graven, on 04 February 2013 - 01:37 PM, said:

Unlike other heavy 'mechs the Cat has very exposed arms

Dragons don't have easy to hit arms that carry a significant portion of their tonnage in weapons?
Cataphracts's don't have big, easy to hit arms that also carry big, heavy, ballistic weapons?

The catapult isn't unique in that it's easily disarmed. Focusing fire on the enemy's primary weapons system is a valid strategy against nearly every mech in the game. However, not every mech in the game has the same alpha damage equivalent of 6 gauss rifles. Until you present an argument that the A1 has significant disadvantages that NO OTHER MECH HAS then you can't say that its unique advantage of 6 missile hardpoints is not overpowering in terms of balance.

Edited by Fenix0742, 04 February 2013 - 01:55 PM.

[LaserAngel]

Dimento Graven, on 04 February 2013 - 01:37 PM, said:

The point was, that not EVERY role can the Cat do better than every other 'mech.

And yeah, if TAG was "the answer" to good spotting, LRMs would be much higher up on my own list of weapon rankings. As it is, it takes skill and focus to keep a TAG on ONE 'mech for the duration the LRM carriers rain on it.

You've never taken TAG to milk TAG/NARC assist C-Bills and XP then. My primary mech right now is my Catapult C1 with TAG and Artemis. On top of that I have all the sensor modules and Advanced Target Decay. I'd carry a BAP but it offers no benefits for my LRM fire and the tonnage for it.

The only thing I can't do is fire Medium Lasers and LRMs are two different targets if I need to use the TAG. I can also use my Jump Jets to keep TAG and LOS for the Artemis/TAG benefits.

I'd like to know what your answer is for "good spotting". I'll be the first person to spot the enemy at range and I can TAG them too for all those bonuses to my income.

Edited by LaserAngel, 04 February 2013 - 01:55 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

Fenix0742, on 04 February 2013 - 01:46 PM, said:

Dragons don't have easy to hit arms that carry a significant portion of their tonnage in weapons?
Cataphracts's don't have big, easy to hit arms that also carry big, heavy, ballistic weapons?

The catapult isn't unique in that it's easily disarmed. Focusing fire on the enemy's primary weapons system is a valid strategy against nearly every mech in the game. However, not every mech in the game has the same alpha damage equivalent of 6 gauss rifles. Until you present an argument that the A1 has significant disadvantages that NO OTHER MECH HAS then you can't say that its unique advantage of 6 missile hardpoints is not overpowering in terms of balance.

Unlike the dragon or cataphract the Cat's arms (K2 being the exception here, but this IS the 'I hate A1' thread) are very extremely obvious and exposed. I'm fairl certain it gives the Cat a much broader profile to hit, too, which is why it's so easy to 'disarm' them.

Again, "good" spotting is keeping a particular target TAG'd for more than one or two seconds at a time. The best 'spotters' can keep a 'mech TAG'd, without it ever dropping, in spite of movement, other 'mechs, terrain, etc.

You get you a good spotter like that, and LRM bukkake is a breeze, and the LRM boats can save that TAG tonnage for more armor, or ammo...

[Dimento Graven]

LaserAngel, on 04 February 2013 - 01:51 PM, said:

You've never taken TAG to milk TAG/NARC assist C-Bills and XP then. My primary mech right now is my Catapult C1 with TAG and Artemis. On top of that I have all the sensor modules and Advanced Target Decay. I'd carry a BAP but it offers no benefits for my LRM fire and the tonnage for it.

The only thing I can't do is fire Medium Lasers and LRMs are two different targets if I need to use the TAG. I can also use my Jump Jets to keep TAG and LOS for the Artemis/TAG benefits.

I'd like to know what your answer is for "good spotting". I'll be the first person to spot the enemy at range and I can TAG them too for all those bonuses to my income.

Pfft, EVERY 'mech I regularly play has TAG for that fact, but that doesn't make me a 'good spotter' just makes me a bit more rich at the end of the 'match. As explained elsewhere, to be a GOOD spotter you have to keep the TAG on the target until it's dead or the LRM boats are done with the target. Most of the time, TAG is all 'blinky', off, on, off, on, as the target and spotter move around or battle other 'mechs. Maybe it's on the target when the missles are about to hit, maybe not. That's not being a good spotter.

A GOOD spotter can keep focus on the intended LRM target, helping ensure as many missles as possible hit, even in spite of his and the target's movement, terrain, and other intervening/interfering mechs.

[Stardancer01]

Bring back the missile door delay

[LaserAngel]

Dimento Graven, on 04 February 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

Pfft, EVERY 'mech I regularly play has TAG for that fact, but that doesn't make me a 'good spotter' just makes me a bit more rich at the end of the 'match. As explained elsewhere, to be a GOOD spotter you have to keep the TAG on the target until it's dead or the LRM boats are done with the target. Most of the time, TAG is all 'blinky', off, on, off, on, as the target and spotter move around or battle other 'mechs. Maybe it's on the target when the missles are about to hit, maybe not. That's not being a good spotter.

A GOOD spotter can keep focus on the intended LRM target, helping ensure as many missles as possible hit, even in spite of his and the target's movement, terrain, and other intervening/interfering mechs.

I have to guide in my own LRMs in this ECM environment using my own TAG. Why would I play the binking flashlight game? My own missiles would never hit unless I kept the TAG on the target for a mind numbing 2-10 seconds!

M1 is TAG. I just hold it down for most of the match. What reason is there to turn it off for the majority of the match? I can jump jet to the highest point quickly or get on top of a building to spot and TAG for information. A Jenner or Spider will run there faster but once my Catapult is there, it's just as capable and I have dual LRM 15s instead of a light mech's peashooters.

TAG support is spotty at best when you're pugging. Most of mine is done over voice when my teammates know who I'm Tagging and we can coordinate.

[Dimento Graven]

LaserAngel, on 04 February 2013 - 02:20 PM, said:

I have to guide in my own LRMs in this ECM environment using my own TAG. Why would I play the binking flashlight game? My own missiles would never hit unless I kept the TAG on the target for a mind numbing 2-10 seconds!

M1 is TAG. I just hold it down for most of the match. What reason is there to turn it off for the majority of the match? I can jump jet to the highest point quickly or get on top of a building to spot and TAG for information. A Jenner or Spider will run there faster but once my Catapult is there, it's just as capable and I have dual LRM 15s instead of a light mech's peashooters.

TAG support is spotty at best when you're pugging. Most of mine is done over voice when my teammates know who I'm Tagging and we can coordinate.

On a C4, that's possible, though that's one less medium laser, or whatever energy weapon flavor you like on it. This is the 'I hate A1's' thread though, so, it's really not even moot here.

As far as jumping 'to the highest point'... No, you can't, not without sacrificing ammo, armor, or weapon tonnage to sport all the neccessary JJ's you can carry (4 if I remember right) to make it even remotely possible, and the craptastic jumping mechanism currently in the game certainly limits where you can jump. AAAANDDDD from PERSONAL EXPERIENCE piloting a missle boat A1, jumping somewhere up high to get good missle clearance and spotting capability makes you a peachy keen fun target for any enemy carrying Gauss, AC's, ERPPC/PPC, ER Large Lasers and even LRMs.

If you're doing THAT regularly, no wonder you're dying so much, though I doubt it's only to the Splatterpault™ at that point.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 04 February 2013 - 02:29 PM.

[LaserAngel]

Dimento Graven, on 04 February 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

On a C4, that's possible, though that's one less medium laser, or whatever energy weapon flavor you like on it. This is the 'I hate A1's' thread though, so, it's really not even moot here.

LRM A1 is dead, unless it's on a dedicated team of spotters. C4 is the best LRM Catapult just for the 20 missiles per salvo vs. 15 on the A1/C1. The C1 is overall the most balanced Catapult, minus the insane twist.

Dimento Graven, on 04 February 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

As far as jumping 'to the highest point'... No, you can't, not without sacrificing ammo, armor, or weapon tonnage to sport all the neccessary JJ's you can carry (4 if I remember right) to make it even remotely possible, and the craptastic jumping mechanism currently in the game certainly limits where you can jump.

Having jump jets allows you to reach places where other mechs cannot. You can play a platforming game on Frozen or River City. Jump on top of the hills faster on Forest Colony. Hell, you can poptart spot on Caustic. All that with 2 JJ.

You can jump jet while in motion to maintain a TAG or LOS lock on your target for longer than other mechs. You'll have extra crucial seconds of guidance flying through the air TAG active looking over a building after jumping off a hill side to make sure those missiles hit and make them count.

Dimento Graven, on 04 February 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

AAAANDDDD from PERSONAL EXPERIENCE piloting a missle boat A1, jumping somewhere up high to get good missle clearance and spotting capability makes you a peachy keen fun target for any enemy carrying Gauss, AC's, ERPPC/PPC, ER Large Lasers and even LRMs.

Situations change and I hope you picked a spot with cover. The nice thing about LRMs is that...they can fire over cover. You can't TAG give the low torso energy points but with someone else spotting or dare I say using TAG, you too can fire LRMs over cover.

My question is, do you even Catapult?

Edited by LaserAngel, 04 February 2013 - 02:43 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

LaserAngel, on 04 February 2013 - 02:42 PM, said:

My question is, do you even Catapult?

Actually in game now, on one...

[Stingz]

Just got an -A1 today [Build] and man can it kill. One-shotting unlucky light mechs, it is a good feeling.

With that said, the -A1 is ludicrous. Giant CT means an XL is very viable, Jump Jets boost survivability/mobility/accuracy, and x6 SRM-6 is horrifying. | Weaknesses are heavy heat on alphas, shoot-me head-box, and ammo dependent.

There isn't very much that can be done (currently) about the -A1 to balance it really.


I have 3 buttons for my -A1:

Spoiler

Edited by Stingz, 04 February 2013 - 03:41 PM.

[Erasus Magnus]

Not sure.
i picked "overpowered because of the 90 dmg alpha" option.

if combined with ecm, even pretty fast mechs cannot effectively hold them at a safe distance, especially on those narrow maps we have at the moment, they have too much overwhelming potential i think.

when im in my hunchbacks that run at 92 kph, and i take the wrong corner and accidentally run into such a cat, its gg in an instant.

i just go BOOM! no other mech has that potential.
Sure, stalkers can pack a punch too and ac20 k2s, but they are somewhat limited by torso twist and/or speed.

[Khanahar]

SRMs and SSRMs are probably a little overpowered right now. Either damage or RoF should be reduced on both.

But the A-1 isn't particularly OP. It IS a prime candidate for boatingsomething just due to the nature of its hardpoints. I remember LRM5 A-1s; we all remember SSRM A-1s; now we all know SRM A-1s.

The SRM is supposed to be one of BTs most efficient weapons, at the cost of range. But boatable Artemis SRM6s are probably a little much.

Remember, OmniMechs are coming.

[Sifright]

I dunno guys, I'm pretty sure the A1 isn't broken.

I mean broken means not working well and I'm definitely kicking the hell out of the other team every time i go out in my A1

Seems to be working just right

[Sifright]

Dimento Graven, on 04 February 2013 - 01:30 PM, said:

And yet we saw someone crying about potential Clan LRMs that might be put into the game in the future. Wasn't someone else just complaining that missles were "one of the best weapon types in the game", oh wait, that was YOU! *snip*

Dude, Normal LRMS have a min range. With ECM and without spotters that makes them kind of crappy.

Clan LRMS are going to rock your face off. No minimum range? check!
4 Slots instead of 5? CHECK
5 tons instead of 10? CHECK.
Wait whats that fido? I can drop engine size a bit and stick 4 of them in my A1 with 2 Clan lrm 10s?

So your telling me I can salvo 100 missiles a time!? and I can dumb fire them into mech at point blank?

So i can do 180 damage a salvo?

Yea that isn't going to be an unholy terror or anything.

Edited by Sifright, 04 February 2013 - 03:46 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Sifright, on 04 February 2013 - 03:45 PM, said:

Dude, Normal LRMS have a min range. With ECM and without spotters that makes them kind of crappy.

Clan LRMS are going to rock your face off. No minimum range? check!
4 Slots instead of 5? CHECK
5 tons instead of 10? CHECK.
Wait whats that fido? I can drop engine size a bit and stick 4 of them in my A1 with 2 Clan lrm 10s?

So your telling me I can salvo 100 missiles a time!? and I can dumb fire them into mech at point blank?

So i can do 180 damage a salvo?

Yea that isn't going to be an unholy terror or anything.

imagine the QQ thatll cause

and the nerfs thatll cause as PGI freaks out and kneejerks (but they cant kneejerk the ECM fix) in the face of that QQ

[Sifright]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 04 February 2013 - 03:54 PM, said:

imagine the QQ thatll cause

and the nerfs thatll cause as PGI freaks out and kneejerks (but they cant kneejerk the ECM fix) in the face of that QQ

Yea, it's a little scary when you think just how much clan tech is going to drop the time it takes to kill enemy mechs.

I mean with the better mech builds at the moment the time to kill targets is already ridiculously fast. With clan tech you will be able to wipe enemy mechs out in just a few seconds when people that can actually aim are using it.

Edit: Clan UAC 20s man. They weigh less than IS ACs and can double fire whilst taking up less slots....

Edited by Sifright, 04 February 2013 - 04:04 PM.

[Undead Bane]

I would like to (humbly) point out, that there was one very cheesy machine in TT... Named SRM carier.
Thank you for the time.


Please, leave A1 alone, nothing wrong with it.

[Joe Luck]

i thought I remember PGI saying something along the lines "We are looking into creating a heat modifier when you have several of the same weapons in the same location." Though that was months ago. Does anyone know if it was implemented or discussed further?

[Sifright]

Joe Luck, on 04 February 2013 - 04:03 PM, said:

i thought I remember PGI saying something along the lines "We are looking into creating a heat modifier when you have several of the same weapons in the same location." Though that was months ago. Does anyone know if it was implemented or discussed further?

As far as i'm aware no such thing has been implemented, not that it would matter overly much even if they did.

Clan mechs are going to have ridiculous damage outputs compared to IS.

For a start CLAN ENDO and FF both take up only 7 slots instead of 14 whilst giving more benefit overall even before taking into account the slot reduction.

clan DHS being two slots ontop means you are going to be able to jam a hell of a lot more heat sinks in. On top of that most clan weapons are lighter and take up less slots...

So yeaa...

Clan stuff is going to massively break the game.

Personally I can't wait to see how they try to kludge it into the game.