149 replies to this topic

[Zylo]

Ursh, on 02 February 2013 - 04:29 PM, said:

Basic physics would tell us that the faster moving mech would knock down the equal weight mech. They wouldn't both fall down, as the receiving mech would be used as a brake for the assaulting mech.

It's all math bro. Only ******** MWO math would make the mechs take an equal fall.

Remember, MWO math is what allowed the 60ton dragon to knock over any other mech... ok, the dragon's mass was incorrect at the time but you get the idea.

I hope the new collision system will work a bit better since both mechs would fall down using the old collision system. Speed didn't seem to matter, if a Jenner moving at 100kph rammed a slower jenner from behind both would fall down. If the Jenner was moving slower, maybe 50kph and rammed the other Jenner which was standing still, both would still fall under the old system.

Even with it's flaws the old collsion system was better than no collision knockdowns.

Edited by Zylo, 02 February 2013 - 04:48 PM.

[Mizore]

gavilatius, on 02 February 2013 - 04:37 PM, said:

as a Dedicated Light pilot, I can voucher that the 3L, while perfect as a light mech is just too effective against other light mechs. The reason is that the maps are just too small for other light mechs to outmaneuver them by flanking and running away. leaving them only 2-5 seconds before they get caught in a streakwave. the fact that Collisions are non existent just compounds to the problem.

I really doubt that!
How do you want to run away from a 3L-Craven that runs at max speed?
And bigger maps even make this problem worse, because it takes you even longer to reach the rest of your team to be at least somewhat safe... there's much more time left for the 3L-Craven to kill you -.-

[Koningswulf]

Good and spot on remarks

[Writhenn]

I would've been fine with the Jenner-K/F having ECM or the 2x/4x Raven. Trading speed/missile hardpoints for ECM would've been fair.

[Beo Vulf]

Daaaaaum nice post.

[nksharp]

Window, on 02 February 2013 - 12:06 PM, said:

Good post, echoes my thoughts on the issue exactly.

A solution to streaks not mentioned, slowing missile speed.

Completely agree with OP. I find myself playing this game less and less because you almost have to run a 3l now if you play lights. It is infuriating to play and requires nearly no skill, it takes a lot of fun out of the game I use to have using my jenner.

[Majorfatboy]

If we're talking about just tournament "serious business" matches, then there are plenty of solutions, and they are all player-side:

Both teams could agree in advance to some limitations, like:

A no-ECM round.

A no-SSRM round.

A limit on how many units per team may field ECM.

A limit on how many units per team may field SSRMs.

Since there are no weight restrictions in 8-mans, the teams themselves may institute a total drop weight limit.

Have a round for non-cookie-cutter builds.

I could go on, but you get the idea. If you don't like the way light mechs are being handled in the serious business games, change the parameters of the serious business, and/or change the way you play.

......Or you could have an all ECM raven round, so in the end nobody can claim the got unfairly ganked because of ECM lights......................

[Icebound]

Definitely agreed, I can't stand playing Ravens anymore either. Running in circles spraying streaks is so boring, yet is mandatory in competitive 8mans.

[Zylo]

It could be difficult to enforce exact builds but tournament rules could be written to require the use of different mech types.

If a tournament like RHoD had rules in place to allow only 1 of each mech chassis type it would force diversity in team builds. These rules would be a bit easier to enforce because teams would only need to identify the enemy mechs rather than specific builds.

It might be an idea for RHoD season 2 anyway.

Edited by Zylo, 02 February 2013 - 06:13 PM.

[Khobai]

Streaks just need to work like they're supposed to. This auto-hitting nonsense needs to stop. Streaks do not automatically hit in tabletop. They simply don't fire if they miss. However when Streaks hit, ALL the missiles hit.

The way Streaks SHOULD work is as follows:

1) When you get a lock and pull the trigger, the Streak launcher should fire an invisible "dummy" missile that does 0 damage. This dummy missile would not automatically hit and would have a chance of missing the target, much like the old Streaks.

2) If the dummy missile hits the target, the Streaks should then fire, and automatically hit.

3) If the dummy missile misses the target, the Streaks should not fire at all.

[nksharp]

Doubtful since trying to limit gauss rifles back when it was first starting was basically a no from most people. As much as some people would probably want this others would rather just play OP mechs all day long.

[Riffleman]

Protection, on 02 February 2013 - 11:56 AM, said:

But the thing about light mechs was that there used to be a pretty high skill ceiling -- it was generally where many teams put their most skilled pilots. A star light mech pilot could make all the difference between victory and defeat, and -- especially when collisions were still present in the game -- you could very quickly distinguish between a great light pilot and a weak one.

lolno. This is what light pilots came to believe, through flawed game design. And once code is perfected (another lol) you will see them blown apart by ac 20s while moving, as it should be. But go ahead and pretend that lagshield was high skill ceiling. Most "teams" put their best pilots where they felt most comfortable playing. You dident stick your ace in a light for maximum overtroll.

[nksharp]

Riffleman, on 02 February 2013 - 06:20 PM, said:

lolno. This is what light pilots came to believe, through flawed game design. And once code is perfected (another lol) you will see them blown apart by ac 20s while moving, as it should be. But go ahead and pretend that lagshield was high skill ceiling. Most "teams" put their best pilots where they felt most comfortable playing. You dident stick your ace in a light for maximum overtroll.

I have 23ms, I wish I had a lagshield

If people actually started hitting lights with AC20, that'd be the day I quit or at least call someone a hacker. I don't think it will ever happen though.

[Zylo]

Riffleman, on 02 February 2013 - 06:20 PM, said:

lolno. This is what light pilots came to believe, through flawed game design. And once code is perfected (another lol) you will see them blown apart by ac 20s while moving, as it should be. But go ahead and pretend that lagshield was high skill ceiling. Most "teams" put their best pilots where they felt most comfortable playing. You dident stick your ace in a light for maximum overtroll.

I think the higher skill was more about aim back then with direct fire weapons vs streaks today. Also avoiding collisions required more skill than is required now because a light mech face down near enemy mechs was quickly a dead light mech.

Netcode issues were less of a problem when collision knockdowns were still in game because a laggy light could just be knocked down and killed.

[Gammanoob]

nksharp, on 02 February 2013 - 06:04 PM, said:

Completely agree with OP. I find myself playing this game less and less because you almost have to run a 3l now if you play lights. It is infuriating to play and requires nearly no skill, it takes a lot of fun out of the game I use to have using my jenner.

Come on, the Jenner was just about as bad before ECM came into play.

It used to be that almost everyone used the Jenner with a couple of us tired of easy kills going to use the Commandos or Ravens(when they were bad).

Although I would agree Light Mech battles in general are more boring, but going back to the "Jenner Times" wouldn't be progress either.

[nksharp]

Going to the 'jenner times' required WAYYY more skill though unfortunately I will agree that they use to be the most OP mech but now with ecm and jump jets being the way they are they just aren't even fun to play for the most part.

[The Cheese]

Well said.

[X Man]

I use an ecm commando with fully upgraded armor, internals, max engine, and 3 streaks. I have no problem knocking out ravens though they are a tad harder (takes more streaks) then other lights. The easiest to take out are spiders then Jenners, if they would tweek jump jets to give more flight time it would go a long ways to making them more survivable. My biggest threat has been other ecm mechs staying grouped which of course negates my ecm.

[Cranky Poed]

I hunt Ravens..you have to blind side them...skirt the Brawl and then hit them when they make their run though it.
Works with one when i pug but if there is more i avoid them.

[Gammanoob]

nksharp, on 02 February 2013 - 06:32 PM, said:

Going to the 'jenner times' required WAYYY more skill though unfortunately I will agree that they use to be the most OP mech but now with ecm and jump jets being the way they are they just aren't even fun to play for the most part.

Granted, but it feels to me like arguing that the SRM Catapult is significantly more difficult or fun to play than the SSRM Catapult.